Hawkens 50 cal flintlock firing inconsistently

54calNE · December 14, 2023, 12:14 PM

Hello all! Have a friend with older Hawkens 50 cal flintlock not used in a long time (it was his father's). He is having problems getting the gun to fire consistently. He says it only goes off about 1/3 of time. Ports are clear and he has tried both flint and artificial flint without much difference. He has both told to change frizzen or to file present frizzen (rough surface up). He hasn't tried either yet. What are your guys/gals thoughts?
Mark

ligonierbill · December 14, 2023, 02:04 PM

One or more of these:

Touch hole plugged or too small
Too much powder in the pan
Flint needs a new edge
Flint is loose in the cock
Mainspring is weak
Rust in the lcck internals
Frizzen needs rehardened

I'm sure folks can add to this list.

54calNE · December 14, 2023, 06:00 PM

thanks much! I'll the information along!!!

Oliver Sudden · December 14, 2023, 06:47 PM

Is he using black powder or a substitute?

l.cutler · December 15, 2023, 04:07 AM

I'll second the question on the powder, Flintlocks just won't work well with the substitute powders.

54calNE · December 15, 2023, 08:14 AM

not sure what he is using, I'll ask him. Thanks. We're in NYS and I can't find black powder anywhere. Where do you guys order/recommend? I been using Triple 7 in my New Englander 54 Cal which is a side hammer. Only use my Goex FFg for "special" occations.

Hawg · December 15, 2023, 08:25 AM

Nothing will work in a flintlock but real black. You can put a 10 grain starter charge of real black in first and prime with real black but there is no sub that will work by itself.

mehavey · December 15, 2023, 01:44 PM

Quote:

We're in NYS and I can't find black powder anywhere...

Having done it as a kid,* I wonder if simple home-made BP will work as both pan and starter charge (?)

* Hasn't everyone?

**4V50 Gary** · December 17, 2023, 10:36 AM

If it's throwing sparks, it's not the frizzen.

Make sure the flint contacts the frizzen. If not, readjust. As suggested by ligonierbill, it may need knapping.

As for black powder, mail order it. Maine Powder House, Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gun Works.

RC20 · December 18, 2023, 03:55 PM

Is it the Black Powder charge or the Frizen pan that needs the BP?

I would think 4F would have best odds of ignite in Frizen regardless of main charge.

Hawg · December 19, 2023, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC20

Is it the Black Powder charge or the Frizen pan that needs the BP?

I would think 4F would have best odds of ignite in Frizen regardless of main charge.

Both. 3F and even 2F will work in the pan. They may give a little slower ignition but the main charge has to be real black also. The only way you're going to get a substitute to work is with a starter charge of real black under the main charge and real black in the pan.

mehavey · December 19, 2023, 08:47 AM

Hawg is correct.

While a Pyrodex in the pan "may" (or may not) ignite from steel shaving/sparks from the frizzen,
its flame front transition through the tiny flash hole is insufficient to reliably ignite that same
Pyrodex on the other side.

An aside:
While as RSO at our club a couple of months back, I had a similar discussion w/ a gentleman who
was using Pyrodex in the pan, and pellets in the barrel. He was insistent that the gun/instructions
said to use that.

It was a long afternoon . . . .

December 14, 2023, 12:14 PM	#1
54calNE Junior Member Join Date: December 14, 2023 Posts: 3	Hawkens 50 cal flintlock firing inconsistently Hello all! Have a friend with older Hawkens 50 cal flintlock not used in a long time (it was his father's). He is having problems getting the gun to fire consistently. He says it only goes off about 1/3 of time. Ports are clear and he has tried both flint and artificial flint without much difference. He has both told to change frizzen or to file present frizzen (rough surface up). He hasn't tried either yet. What are your guys/gals thoughts? Mark

December 17, 2023, 10:36 AM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,848	If it's throwing sparks, it's not the frizzen. Make sure the flint contacts the frizzen. If not, readjust. As suggested by ligonierbill, it may need knapping. As for black powder, mail order it. Maine Powder House, Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gun Works. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 18, 2023, 03:55 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Is it the Black Powder charge or the Frizen pan that needs the BP? I would think 4F would have best odds of ignite in Frizen regardless of main charge. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

December 14, 2023, 02:04 PM	#2
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,459	One or more of these: Touch hole plugged or too small Too much powder in the pan Flint needs a new edge Flint is loose in the cock Mainspring is weak Rust in the lcck internals Frizzen needs rehardened I'm sure folks can add to this list.

December 14, 2023, 06:00 PM	#3
54calNE Junior Member Join Date: December 14, 2023 Posts: 3	thanks much! I'll the information along!!!

December 14, 2023, 06:47 PM	#4
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	Is he using black powder or a substitute?

December 15, 2023, 04:07 AM	#5
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	I'll second the question on the powder, Flintlocks just won't work well with the substitute powders.

December 15, 2023, 08:14 AM	#6
54calNE Junior Member Join Date: December 14, 2023 Posts: 3	not sure what he is using, I'll ask him. Thanks. We're in NYS and I can't find black powder anywhere. Where do you guys order/recommend? I been using Triple 7 in my New Englander 54 Cal which is a side hammer. Only use my Goex FFg for "special" occations.

December 15, 2023, 08:25 AM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Nothing will work in a flintlock but real black. You can put a 10 grain starter charge of real black in first and prime with real black but there is no sub that will work by itself.

December 19, 2023, 08:47 AM	#12
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,903	Hawg is correct. While a Pyrodex in the pan "may" (or may not) ignite from steel shaving/sparks from the frizzen, its flame front transition through the tiny flash hole is insufficient to reliably ignite that same Pyrodex on the other side. An aside: While as RSO at our club a couple of months back, I had a similar discussion w/ a gentleman who was using Pyrodex in the pan, and pellets in the barrel. He was insistent that the gun/instructions said to use that. It was a long afternoon . . . .