Racking the 30 Super Carry

[74A95]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Load and unload. The tipping barrel Berettas are tiny little guns (.22 and .25) which have small slides with not much area to grip which makes racking them difficult for many people. ALSO those guns do not have extractors.

No other guns I'm aware of use that particular system, and the maker only uses it on those models, the rest of the pistols they make don't use the hinged tipping barrel. Ever wonder why??

The Beretta 380 caliber model 86 has a tip-up barrel. The recent Girsan copy MC 14T Tip-Up has a tip-up barrel. The Beretta 32 ACP Tomcat uses a tip-up barrel.

https://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%2...retta%2086.htm
https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-14t-tip-up/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_3032_Tomcat

The Beretta Model 84 slide is hard to rack and required more measured force than several other guns, including 9mm pistols according to this article:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...el-84fs/358015

The Taurus clones for the 22 and 25 also use tip-up barrels.
The Taurus PT25 has a hard to rack slide, too.
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editoria...-review/137861

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

When the same model gun is chambered for two different rounds, I don't see how there will be much difference between them regarding the force needed to load them. A measurable difference, perhaps, but a significant one? That would depend on the user.

I have a S&W EZ 380 and a S&W EZ 30SC. The 30SC is harder to rack the slide.

The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. - and 19 pounds for 40 S&W.
https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911...cID1/mID1/dID1

[Jaywalker]

When the same model gun is chambered for two different rounds, I don't see how there will be much difference between them regarding the force needed to load them.

That's my feeling, too, and is the reason I asked if anyone had any different impressions.

[Jaywalker]

FWIW, the Girsan MC 14T Tip-Up is in gun stores, similar to the old Beretta m86. I saw one this week while looking at the Shield EZ.

[44 AMP]

The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. -

A 2lb difference in the spring rating = "much less" to you??

Doesn't seem like much less, to me.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

A 2lb difference in the spring rating = "much less" to you??

Doesn't seem like much less, to me.

It's a difference I can easily feel.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by 74A95

The Beretta 380 caliber model 86 has a tip-up barrel. The recent Girsan copy MC 14T Tip-Up has a tip-up barrel. The Beretta 32 ACP Tomcat uses a tip-up barrel.

https://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%2...retta%2086.htm
https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-14t-tip-up/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_3032_Tomcat

The Beretta Model 84 slide is hard to rack and required more measured force than several other guns, including 9mm pistols according to this article:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...el-84fs/358015

The Taurus clones for the 22 and 25 also use tip-up barrels.
The Taurus PT25 has a hard to rack slide, too.
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editoria...-review/137861




I have a S&W EZ 380 and a S&W EZ 30SC. The 30SC is harder to rack the slide.

The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. - and 19 pounds for 40 S&W.
https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911...cID1/mID1/dID1

In relation to the force required to rack the slide, Is that your subjective or objective opinion? Do you have data from the manufacturer to back this up? If so, please share, I am sure we would all love to see it.

[44 AMP]

It's a difference I can easily feel.

ok, I can understand that. You can feel the difference so it matters to you. I can't so I don't care about it.

I can tell a difference of 2lbs with my trigger finger, depending on where the difference is in the weight range but I'm not calibrated enough to tell you the difference is 2lbs or 1.5 or 2.5, only that I can tell one is heavier than the other, but only on the low end. Meaning I can feel the difference between a 5lb pull and a 3lb pull, but cannot really tell the difference between a 14lb and a 12lb pull.

As far as a pistol being easy or difficult to rack, I think its a bit like felt recoil. Different guns, and different people are different, and even when the calculated energy needed is the same some folks will feel one gun being harder to rack than a different one.

[Mike Irwin]

74A95: "So you're just making stuff up based on your perceptions of what you think matters, and if it doesn't meet your criteria..."

BUT...

74A95: "My experience has been that blowback centerfire pistols are much harder to rack the slide than locked breech."


Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black with your "experience" being fully based on your "perceptions," 74A95.

Shadow never claimed that his comments were anything than his observations.

You know, just like your observations.

So, how about you settle down?

[wild cat mccane]

I for one am looking forward to hearing what S&W responds with.

But again, I don't think you can order an RSA for the EZ right now, so I'd call that a deal breaker.

[Jaywalker]

I just spoke to a customer service rep at S&W. She said the Shield EZ 9mm and the 30SC Recoil Spring Assemblies are the same, while the 380 is different.

I am answered. Thanks for the input.

[wild cat mccane]

Yeah...but you're leaving your fan base with a conclusion

Great find. You answered a question that no internet search could reveal.

[Bill DeShivs]

Beretta made the .380 in a tipping barrel model. They may still.

[Jim Watson]

I was shooting the Beretta 21 tip up .22 today.
Lacking an extractor, when it doesn't eject by blowback, you are S.O.L.

[Jaywalker]

Yeah...but you're leaving your fan base with a conclusion

It leaves me with facts, but not much of a decision, yet. The way I see it right now, I can buy a Shield EZ 30SC and get $200 of free ammunition. Or I can buy a shield EZ 380 and pay for a new line of ammo. Or I can buy the 9mm and I already have enough 9mm. The 380 is the most expensive of the choices. We'll see how the user reacts to the 9mm racking. More posts when she and I have made up our collective minds.

[wild cat mccane]

Good luck. If you go the 30SC route...i guess any of them, wouldn't mind hearing how you like it. Thanks!

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I for one am looking forward to hearing what S&W responds with.

But again, I don't think you can order an RSA for the EZ right now, so I'd call that a deal breaker.

Well, I got a response from S&W, it was not what I expected. I replied and am hoping to get a better response.

my question, which I felt was fairly clear. "Looking into the m&p ez line. Concerned with grip strength and how much force it takes to rack the slides. What is the pound weight of the recoil springs for the 380, 9mm, and 30 super carry?"

S&W response "Good Morning

Thank you for contacting Smith & Wesson. The trigger pull with the grip safety is 5-6 lbs.

Thank you
Brendan"

so I replied and tried to clarify, no response yet.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Well, I got a response from S&W, it was not what I expected. I replied and am hoping to get a better response.

my question, which I felt was fairly clear. "Looking into the m&p ez line. Concerned with grip strength and how much force it takes to rack the slides. What is the pound weight of the recoil springs for the 380, 9mm, and 30 super carry?"

S&W response "Good Morning

Thank you for contacting Smith & Wesson. The trigger pull with the grip safety is 5-6 lbs.

Thank you
Brendan"

so I replied and tried to clarify, no response yet.

LOL.

[Mike Irwin]

That's about par for the course for some of the responses I've received from various gun makers over the years...

[44 AMP]

Rote response to the most common question by the guy "stuck" answering e-mails that day. most likely.

[Rob Pincus]

"the 30 Super Carry is a dead round"



In a world where new guns are coming out for the 5.7mm every few months after it was dead for 20+ years and 10mm Auto gets cool again for a couple years every decade since Sonny Crockett had one, declaring any round (other than .45 GAP) "dead" is bold...

[Mike Irwin]

Cartridges do have an amazing ability to... rise from the dead.

The centennial of the Civil War and the Indian Wars helped resurrect a lot of rounds.

Then the Cowboy Action Shooting sports/Black Powder Cartridge Rifle competition came along and cartridges that a lot of people had never heard of before started showing up on the line again.

[jetinteriorguy]

In this age of immediate information a lot of things come and go seemingly overnight on a regular basis, and get resurrected just as fast.

[Forte S+W]

Folks love to talk about how all sorts of cartridges are "dead" for any number of reasons, some more valid than others, but in reality, no cartridge is really dead unless it has gone completely out of production, and even then there's always a possibility that it will someday see a resurgence in popularity.

There are some extremely obscure cartridges which remain in limited production to this very day, such as "9x18 Ultra" which was never a successful or popular cartridge to begin with, nor were many guns chambered in it.
So it seems rather absurd for folks to boldly proclaim that a cartridge as resent as .30 Super Carry is dead and that ammo production for the cartridge will cease altogether in a world in which 9x18 Ultra is still produced in limited quantities despite the fact that nobody has manufactured a firearm chambered in it since 1979 when the Walther PP Super went out of production.

My advice on the subject would be; if .30 Super carry seems interesting to you, then might as well buy a firearm chambered in it. That way even if it does go out of production in a few years, the firearm itself may become a valuable collector's item in years to come, and you'll get the last laugh over the naysayers because while they got to be right about something, you're the one who actually profited.

Besides, you never know... .30 Super Carry might gain a cult following in years to come, eventually becoming a cartridge shrouded in urban legends, and join the likes of other formerly "dead" cartridges such as 10mm Auto, 5.7x28, and .327 Magnum.
Personally, I'm anticipating an eventual resurgence in popularity for .357 SIG, as it has been getting lots of attention from certain ammo testers on YouTube who have been impressed by its performance, and seeing as .40cal pistols can easily be converted to the cartridge with drop-in barrels, it seems likely to maintain a strong cult following which will eventually prompt a comeback once enough influential individuals rediscover it.

[czgunner]

10mm and 357 SIG have been "dead" yet people still buy guns, ammo, and components for them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Ricklin]

Guess I'm an old curmudgeon. Is there are gaping hole in the calibers available suitable for self defense?
I think not. Shoot a look at the Sierra or Hodgdon bullet lines would indicate there is a seat for every butt now, typically multiples.
New folks find the purchasing process confusing enough, we suffer from abundance.