Ceramic knife blade questions

[Strayhorn]

Friends -

A friend of mine is scheduled to spend some time in a Third World country where only the criminals are allowed to own firearms. Of course, this means she won't be able to carry her usual PDW.

I've suggested a knife as the only alternative, along with a few lessons from a local self-defense teacher I know.

Recently I've been looking at the new ceramic knives offered by, among others, Boker. I particularly like their folders because they have a clip to hold the knife in an accessable position, rubber grips for traction, and a lock blade.

Given the humid nature of the country she'll be in, I figure the ceramic blade will be akin to a polymer handgun frame - best for rust prevention.

But I freely admit I know nothing about knives in general and ceramic blades in particular. H*ll, I'm still using the Buck Hunter my dad gave me 25 years ago.

All suggestions and advice gladly received, particularly any pointers to outlets with reasonable prices.

Ken Strayhorn
Hillsborough NC

[house]

I dont no if it is true or not but i have heard that if you drop a ceramic knife or a hard surface it will break?
I carry an emerson CQ-C7 that has been proven to be a very good combat knife.
Titinum liners, g-10 handel and ATS-34 steal.
will hold up to preaty much any condition.

[Mikul]

Ceramic is relatively brittle, and can break much easier than steel. It's not so bad that I'd worry about it.

The bigger problem with ceramic knives is that they're so damn hard that sharpening them is VERY difficult. The only think that will sharpen them reasonably well is a diamond sharpener, and expect it to take a while. Of course, they'll hold that edge longer as well.

A polymer handled knife with a stainless blade and low carbon content is probably her best bet.

[Cliff]

Ken - Are you primarily interested in a "tactical" folder (e.g. blade can be opened one handed) for her, or is a sheath knife also a consideration?

Some interesting ceramic knifes can be viewed at http://www.mdenterprise.com/miragex.htm - these are mfr'ed by Mad Dog. Note the prices, tho.

Boker, I believe, has also introduced some knives made out of titanium. Superior corrosion resistance, but probably pricey and also difficult to sharpen.

The problem (I believe) with a folder is that under stress there can be a high 'fumble' factor... deploying the blade and ensuring that it is locked. Also, most have blades under 4" in length.

A sheath knife, with a stainless steel blade in a length of 5", may be worthy of consideration.

JMO.

Cliff

[Strayhorn]

Thanks for all the suggestions - yes, I'm primarily interested in a folder. Apparently all sheath knives are confiscated at the airport on arrival. However, folders don't seem to matter to these folks. This is in Africa, where folders are considered "toys".

So, yes, the criteria are one-handed opening and weather resistance, hence my interest in the ceramic blades - but if you folks recommend stainless, that's cool with me. The blade has to relatively small to escape the notice of the border police, yet big enough to perform necessary tasks.

Thanks for your help and tips.

Ken Strayhorn
Hillsborough NC

[wyatt]

i have a small ceramic blade knife thats great for a pocket knife due to its light weight and slim profile. however its duties fall more in the line of cutting price tags off new clothes, clipping articles, a quick wire splice etc.. the instructions that came with the knife said to specificly avoid prying actions with the knife. not exactly what you look for in a defensive or utility knife. your friend would be much better off with a steel (stainless) knife. you may want to keep in mind a design that avoids an aggressive look ie. serrated, tanto style ( a kind of double sided sharp tip ) just to make it seem more "innocent" looking. there should be many knives that would suit her fine with a little shopping. wyatt

[houndawg]

The Mad Dog Frequent Flyer is made of polymer. It's not a folder, but it would make a great boot knife.

[Cliff]

Ken - OK. Folder it is.

REKAT manufactures a folder with a 5.4" blade, that isn't too horribly expensive. Check out TFL'er Jim March's page at http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/blades.html for details.

Here's a photo of it, hot linked from http://www.onestopknifeshop.com



The blade is ATS-34, not stainless, but unfolded the knife is 12" in OAL. That's 3" more than my Randall Model 5 sheath knife!

HTH.

Cliff

[Strayhorn]

Thanks for all the suggestions - I'll spend my lunch hour today looking over the websites.

I think you folks are right - a stainless or similar blade in a folder. Lucky for us, there's a gun show this weekend so we can use these tips to look for something that fits her hand.

Ken Strayhorn
Hillsborough NC

[Prof]

Also consider the excellent Spyderco series of knives. I carry mine through airport security all the time (after they check the blade length) so they are politically correct. Yet, they are designed as fighting knives. I like the Delica model best as it is fairly "friendly" looking.

That said, my favorite knife is my Emerson CQC7 but it definitely would not make it past security!!!

[Bill DeShivs]

Ceramic blades are too delicate for general duty, and that Rekat is just the thing for six fingered people!

[elkman06]

My bro in law and his wife travelled several countries in Africa a couple years ago on their honeymoon. It was an organized 20 person type trip where they were transported around via bus/truck, visited numerous cities, etc. This was more of a backpack style trip. He is 5-10 or so and husky build. He carried a fixed blade6in knife in sheath on his backpack throughout the trip. Never once was panhandled or bothered by the locals as compared to others in their group. Don't know if this would be as effective and or intimidating for a woman or not though. In the wrong situation could be an invite, depends on the b/g.
To emphasize the content of th OP question though. I have several friends who have and use ceramic knives w/ little to no worry about breaking them. These are utilized in the mountains as are mine. I however have been known to use a rock on a knife occasionally so not something I have tried.
elkman06

[Musketeer]

1. Ceramic is nice for food prep where seeds and bones are not an issue. Ceramic is hard but brittle. Breaking the blade will be far easier than with a conventional knife. Go with a quality stainless blade, possibly treated with some sort of hard coating, and bring a cloth to wipe it down with.

2. If the people she is concerned about do not already have guns they will have machetes and the will to use them. If the place is of such a concern that she would need to get knife fighting training then I can't think of one reason good enough to risk your life.

[troy_mclure]

the spiderco tasman salt is an awesome knife, its a rust proof serrated hawkbill. it will slice thru anything, and hold the edge for a long time.and the thumbhole makes one handed opening easy.

[johnwilliamson062]

Get a few cheap $10 autos out of Hong Kong. Work great for about 1,000 openings, perfect thrust point, decent edge. Toss them if they get dull. If airport authority seizes it no big deal.
Look at the folder Cliff suggested. Assuming you keep the plane of the knife parallel to the run of the ribs it will work great. If gets it perpendicular it will push in between them on the inward thrust past the fat part where the back edge ends. Then she will try to pull it out, which is inherently a weaker motion, and she may very well find herself with a knife in a very angry, not yet disabled attacker, that she can not remove. Knife blade needs to get fatter or stay the same as it approaches the hilt for the whole length of the blade. An absolute must in a defensive knife as far as I am concerned.

Look at the Fairbairn Sykes design, then find a folder in the length she wants that mimics its design as much as possible.

[grymster2007]

The blade is ATS-34, not stainless,

ATS-34 is stainless steel and a pretty good one at that. I like it because it's fairly tough, stain resistant, takes and holds a pretty good edge and is not too difficult to field sharpen. Some of the newer steels such as S60V and S30V are better in most respects, but difficult to sharpen.

[Musketeer]

ATS-34 is stainless steel and a pretty good one at that. I like it because it's fairly tough, stain resistant, takes and holds a pretty good edge and is not too difficult to field sharpen.

My SOG Twitch XL uses that steel and it has become my favorite carry knife.

[grymster2007]

I think improvements in ceramic blade materials are ongoing and at some point blade toughness may be demonstrably better than stainless. Even then, I like a knife that I could reasonably sharpen in the field.

I did recently see a documentary that showed Japanese sushi chefs using ceramic blades to cut paper-thin raw fish and they seemed to work real well.

[Delaware_Dan]

For what it's worth, buy a teel blade folder, I recomend spyderco.

[Musketeer]

Some things do not change. Blades which stay sharp must be hard. Things which are hard are by default stiff. Things which are stiff do not flex and things that do not flex break.

Steel long ago was able to obtain the happy medium of hard yet tough and flexible.

Ceramic, by its very nature, is HARD. Working with it in small size industrial applications I know what has been done with it by our partners and I know of nothing that would lead me to consider it "flexible."

Why would one care to entrust their life to a lifesaving tool made from a new and very uncertain material when there are perfectly suitable options already available for which all the performance criteria are already known?

[DBR]

I have a Boker folder ceramic. The blade can shave hair. It is so smooth on the edge that it does not cut nearly as well as a more conventional blade doing normal tasks. Also, I would not want to use it in a defensive role.

I have always liked Dozier designs. Russell's Knives has some folders that are reasonably priced.

I like this one:
http://www.agrussell.com/ka-bar-dozi...ter-/p/KA4070/

[Sodbuster]

An 8-year old thread resurrected by... a first time poster, with something to sell no less. OK, I'll play. I sold the only ceramic-bladed knife I've ever owned, a Mad Dog Operator non-metallic. Not much use after the novelty wore off. I understand they were great for slicing tomatoes. BTW if the Cliff in this thread is THE Cliff from Bladeforums, that's a rare misstep for him re ATS-34. Wonder if the OP is still around?!?

[skeeter1]

"Ceramic is relatively brittle, and can break much easier than steel. It's not so bad that I'd worry about it.
"

I had one (expensive) ceramic kitchen knife, that was very sharp, and sliced quite well. Then I dropped it on the floor and it shattered. By contrast, the Gerber stainless steel folder that my dad gave me for Christmas 30 years ago is still going strong. It's been used for everything from field-dressing game to chopping firewood. No more ceramics for me, thanks.

[ElectricHellfire]

Ceramic blades are too delicate for general duty, and that Rekat is just the thing for six fingered people!

I was counting those finger grooves too. Whats up with that?

[Don Gwinn]

That's a blast from the past!

Unfortunately, REKAT is no more, and the SIFU went with it. But the SIFU was one of the first "megafolders" out there, and they were serious stuff. The finger grooves were weird, but I think there was some thought that some users would want to shift their grip back from the blade (and after all, they had to make the grip that long either way, right?) and so one extra groove was added for a secure grip further back. That would effectively give even more reach from an already long knife.

Personally, I can't imagine advising a woman who's worried that her gun will get her in trouble in some third-world country that she ought to carry a Sifu, though. I don't think that would be that much easier to explain to the typical third-world cop than a Glock, but maybe I'm way off.