The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 30, 2020, 06:02 PM   #51
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
The minimalist sights make it hard to shoot easily/accurately at distance more than a couple yards.
Bob Munden can hit a balloon at 200 yards with a trench sights on a J frame. Three times in a row. If you can't that's on you. Don't blame the gun. The sights on The Best Handgun Ever are actually really good for accuracy.
https://youtu.be/Tied-t1fFsk
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 06:08 PM   #52
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Agents working undercover don't "open carry on a big fat batman belt".
Doesn't change the fact that adjustable sights on a S&W are prone to snagging.

Do you know what happens when you take a teenie weenie screw driver and turn that little windage screw too far? It breaks off. That's the actual recommend way to change that little tiny leaf.

S&W knows this, that's why on their last attempt to make the ulitmate L and K frame carry guns, known as the Night Guard they used a non-adjustable sight. I believe they are made by Cylinder and Slide.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 06:11 PM   #53
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 450
Steve

Bob Munden's probably not a good person to reference in this case, he could do all kinds of things no normal human can do with a pistol!
As far as sights go if you look at the statistics nearly all self defense situations occur at very close range, the natural point of aim of the gun is way more important than the type of sight IMO.

Look at your target, close your eyes draw and point your gun at it, open them, if your gun isn't pointed at the target you have the wrong gun in your hand.
Double K is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 06:42 PM   #54
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 1,220
Quote:
Doesn't change the fact that adjustable sights on a S&W are prone to snagging.

Do you know what happens when you take a teenie weenie screw driver and turn that little windage screw too far? It breaks off. That's the actual recommend way to change that little tiny leaf.

S&W knows this, that's why on their last attempt to make the ulitmate L and K frame carry guns, known as the Night Guard they used a non-adjustable sight. I believe they are made by Cylinder and Slide.
Every time I shoot down your argument, you don't defend your argument, but rather throw out another one. You'd make one heck of a politician. So, let me see if I have this right, all the decades that S&W put adjustable sights on their guns, guys with their "teenie weenie screw driver" were turning the windage screw too far, causing a breakage that prevented them from defending themselves? What comes next, are they the wrong color?

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 06:48 PM   #55
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 450
Those are all daytime guns btw, don't see any night sights on any of them, fine if you don't go out after the sun sets.
My Smith 1911 has the brightest set of tritium sights I've ever seen, easily seen on the nightstand in the dark or in a parking lot at night.
Double K is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 07:29 PM   #56
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Bob Munden's probably not a good person to reference in this case, he could do all kinds of things no normal human can do with a pistol!
As far as sights go if you look at the statistics nearly all self defense situations occur at very close range, the natural point of aim of the gun is way more important than the type of sight IMO.

Look at your target, close your eyes draw and point your gun at it, open them, if your gun isn't pointed at the target you have the wrong gun in your hand.
Yes, Bob is exceptional. I'm nowhere near his level but he illustrates my point that trench sites can be used to great effectiveness in capable hands. To say you can't hit the broad side of a barn only proves the shooter is really bad at shooting.

And you're correct about point shooting.

Quote:
Those are all daytime guns btw, don't see any night sights on any of them, fine if you don't go out after the sun sets.
My Smith 1911 has the brightest set of tritium sights I've ever seen, easily seen on the nightstand in the dark or in a parking lot at night.
Because The Best Handgun Ever (my 242) has a pinned front sight I can easily change it for tritium or fiber but going back to what you said earlier, it's more of a point and shoot ordeal. Night sights only serve to find your gun in the dark, otherwise you're point shooting and hopefully not into darkness, that would be reckless.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 07:32 PM   #57
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
So, let me see if I have this right, all the decades that S&W put adjustable sights on their guns, guys with their "teenie weenie screw driver" were turning the windage screw too far, causing a breakage that prevented them from defending themselves? What comes next, are they the wrong color?
If you like fragile little parts on your gun have at it, but S&W knows their weakness, which is why their serious self-defense guns come with solid steel or trench sights. If you think they are making them wrong feel free to contact S&W customer service.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 07:38 PM   #58
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,381
The best revolvers have hammers. Zero discussion.

But I hope your enjoy your new gun.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 07:51 PM   #59
rickmelear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2005
Location: palm beach county, fl
Posts: 254
S&W model 14
rickmelear is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 07:53 PM   #60
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,705
Looks like we have a lot of "shooters" here that need to learn how to use kentucky windage, shoot double action and align their sights with a short barrel revolver!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old September 30, 2020, 08:28 PM   #61
reddog81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
Bob Munden can hit a balloon at 200 yards with a trench sights on a J frame. Three times in a row. If you can't that's on you. Don't blame the gun. The sights on The Best Handgun Ever are actually really good for accuracy.
https://youtu.be/Tied-t1fFsk
I shoot revolvers out to 100 yards on a regular basis... That doesn’t change the fact those sights are terrible. Give any new shooter that gun and a 6” 686 and their group size will be twice as big with the 242. There are many more new shooters vs people with Bob Munson levels of skill.

If that model is so great why’d they sell it for such a short period of time? Too much demand???

I hope the gun works out well for you but it seems like you’re just trying to justify the purchase with outrageous claims and not much experience.
reddog81 is online now  
Old September 30, 2020, 08:51 PM   #62
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,705
Quote:
Give any new shooter that gun and a 6” 686 and their group size will be twice as big with the 242.
Myself, I don't care what or what new shooters can do with a pistol.
They don't get to choose my potential.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 07:20 AM   #63
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 1,220
Quote:
S&W model 14
Good choice, rickmelear, I have a couple of them myself and really like them. But don't you know that you need a "teenie weenie screw driver" to move those fragile parts around?

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 07:37 AM   #64
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3,330
Whew...lotta heat in this discussion...but the OP's premise, loudly voiced, is that his choice of a snub-nosed revolver with a hog wallow rear sight is the be-all & end-all doesn't hold up.

Deer at ~100 yds...probably a scoped, long bbl'd revolver of proven accuracy makes more sense.

Binking cans off the berm from 50 yds, maybe a standard duty sized revolver with adj. sights so it's pointing where you and your loads are looking.

Targets at 25 & 50 yds...a good target sighted name brand revolver of proven accuracy...

Serious social encounters at bad breath distances because you'd forgotten to pay attention to your surroundings and lost your sanity when you stopped for milk in the bad side of town...MAYBE a fixed sight gun of substantial caliber. But that feather weight cannon, so comfortable on the pants belt, will be a super-snarky-handful for any 2nd shots.

All are personal choices which can and should be made; determined by the needs of the shooter and his targets. But to pick one underweight for caliber revolver with non-adj. sights as a universal panacea is ludicrous.

Glad he likes the gun...but I predict it won't get much range time with substantial, read SD loads, because of the light weight/heavy recoil, and that it'll fade from regular use.

YMMv, Rod, PS: forced to pick one revolver for all uses, I agree with 44 AMP, it'll never have a 2.5" bbl. My choice for this ridiculous scenario is a 4" bbl'd, M66 Smith: SS construction for weather, superb accuracy WITH ADJ. SIGHTS for load adjustments, enough weight to absorb recoil but not so much to deter daily carry, and a DA trigger that's the industry standard short of a custom gun. And I'll carry it OWB and dress around the gun for CC use...flame on brothers! Rod
__________________
Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

Last edited by rodfac; October 1, 2020 at 07:45 AM.
rodfac is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 02:09 PM   #65
The Happy kaboomer
Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 43
BEST IS A MATTER OF OPINION. OPINIONS ARE LIKE EXHAUST PIPES........WE ALL GOT ONE.

So the answer to your thread is "There isn't a best one".
The Happy kaboomer is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 06:33 PM   #66
imp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2006
Location: Pistol-Vania
Posts: 581
Seems to me that a gun that big negates carrying it in a manner that makes a concealed hammer much of a benefit.

Also, it should be a .357. Even if your going to carry .38s most of the time, the ability to shoot magnums seems more beneficial than 1/8" of saved cylinder length. I'd pass it up for a nice 3" or 4" model 66.
imp is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 07:49 PM   #67
74A95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
Bob Munden can hit a balloon at 200 yards with a trench sights on a J frame. Three times in a row. If you can't that's on you. Don't blame the gun. The sights on The Best Handgun Ever are actually really good for accuracy.
https://youtu.be/Tied-t1fFsk
Munden does not have to hit the balloon itself at that range. All you have to do is hit the plate behind it (which is much larger than the balloon) and the bullet fragments break the balloon.

Jerry does it greater distance, and you can see the bullet does not hit the balloon, just the steel plate.
'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk4RPsn8Zfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw
74A95 is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 08:09 PM   #68
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 1,220
rodfac in his post alluded to something that hasn't really been discussed: "...revolver with adj. sights so it's pointing where you and your loads are looking". With adjustable sights you can use the bullet weight/load that you want, and adjust the sights to match your POI. With what Steve calls "trench sights", POI will tell you what bullet weight/load will be closest to your POA. Simply no way a 110 - 125gr bullet and a 158gr bullet will have the same POI in relation to your POA.

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old October 2, 2020, 11:53 AM   #69
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086

As requested. Here's THE BEST HANDGUN EVER next to my old 642. I'll post a video of it soon. And yes it does fit all the way into my jean pocket.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old October 2, 2020, 12:04 PM   #70
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,705
Thanks for posting the photo comparison. I need to get some bigger jeans then!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 2, 2020, 01:36 PM   #71
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 22,746
Quote:
Even if your going to carry .38s most of the time, the ability to shoot magnums seems more beneficial than 1/8" of saved cylinder length.
Generally speaking, there isn't 1/8" difference in the cylinder length. Checked the books giving S&W cylinder lengths, and looking at several J and K frame models, the difference in the length of the .357 and .38 cylinders is only 0.03" for some models and 0.07" for some others. SO, at best the most difference in cylinder length is just over half of an eighth of an inch (.07") not 1/8" (.125")

Where most people come up with the "1/8" difference is looking at the case length specs where the .357 is 0.135" (just over 1/8") longer than the .38 special CASE.

What they don't do as often is look at the difference in length of the LOADED ROUNDS. Max loaded length specs show a difference of 0.04" between the two. .357 is longer, sure, but NOT .135" as a loaded round, only .04" longer than the loaded .38 Spl.

I fully agree that getting a gun chambered in .357 over .38 is the preferred option, just wanted to be clear that you aren't "saving" 1/8" going to a .38 Spl.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old October 2, 2020, 04:16 PM   #72
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
https://youtu.be/XFZJuqsBMf0

Long winded video. In the first few minutes I put it in my pocket to show you can do it.
The rest is just comparing it to other carry revolvers that I like. Weight and size wise this falls right in the middle.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old October 3, 2020, 09:58 AM   #73
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,550
I carried a gun that looks just like it for years. S&W Airweight Centennial M296. Only five shots... but in .44 Special. With the CorBon DPX 200 grain Barnes bullet load... it worked.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
tulsamal is offline  
Old October 3, 2020, 10:32 AM   #74
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,086
I took her for a spin this morning. My standard load of a 165 flat nose cast bullet over a sprinkle of Bullseye shot point of aim. Hardness is 8brn.

It's more snappy than you might expect. This is no 686+. I'm very pleased with the accuracy and will carry those cast loads.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old October 4, 2020, 09:45 PM   #75
dannyb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2008
Location: SE PA
Posts: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
I'm not going to any war, but I'm also not applying to be an immigration officer that can open carry on a big fat batman belt.

I carry concealed so having a snag free weapon that is good at self-defense ranges is key. It's impossible to snag trench sights on a shirt. Not so hard with higher profile blocky adjustable sights especially in a panic when your draw may not be perfect.
I carry a S&W 638 when I carry a revolver. I don't care that it's a J frame. I like the shrouded hammer, but also the ability to cock or decock with the just visible one this comes with. In case 5 rounds won't cover it, I also carry a speed loader.
I do shoot double action 99% of the time. I learned it that way, shot PPC that way, and have no trouble.
__________________
Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash)
dannyb is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10521 seconds with 8 queries