conical molds for the pietta 1858 - Page 2

rodwhaincamo · February 3, 2014, 01:48 AM

I've yet to get to the range with it. But I intend on spending alllll day once I get there!

I finally broke in my rifle and need to work on an accurate hunting load for it, as well as try some more of the 320 grn REALs I have.

Back to the pistol…. I've read that the Pietta doesn't do as well with conicals as it does with RB's as the twist is slower and geared towards them instead. So I had worked with Tom at Accurate Molds to design some bullets that are shorter and the same length a ball, but weigh quite a bit more, though I see my designs were removed recently now that nearing ordering time. I'm not sure what the problem is so I sent him another email. But in theory they ought to do much better than a ball or other conical.

Chestnut Forge · February 3, 2014, 06:46 AM

When you do make it to the range, try some RB too. I think you will be pleased with the results. My Pietta '58 shoots great with them. I'm running a .454 backed with 30 grains of FFFg. It will put six out of six in a milk jug at 50 yard from the duelist stance. That reminds me, need to pick up some more 454s.

freedom475 · February 3, 2014, 07:41 AM

Try .457's....you will never shoot another 454's again.

If you shoot real BP in your pistols, if you try 4ffff, you will never shoot 3ff again either.

rodwhaincamo · February 3, 2014, 08:27 AM

If Goex made Olde Eynsford in 4F I'd try it. Swiss is too expensive.

I cast .457" RB's.

freedom475 · February 3, 2014, 09:34 AM

Olde E is a little hotter...so 3f may be enough if you use the Olde E. The 4f that I shoot is Grafs' and it works real well in revolvers.

For anyone new to the sport...DON'T us the 4f as the main charge in any rifle!! (or single shot pistol)

rodwhaincamo · February 3, 2014, 02:31 PM

According to a fellow who researched Civil War pistol cartridges found that the small powder charges (15-22 grns) used with conicals were about equivalent to 4F, and that the power levels achieved were like that of Swiss.

I find this very interesting as many state that these cap n ball guns are no more powerful than a .38 Spl if using a .44 cal gun. But it seems their findings are based on common powders available during the 60's and 70's, and not on what was available then.

The pine board penetration tests show that what they used was obviously more powerful than the more common powders available, not to mention the military record of soldiers (many) shooting a brown bear with their .36 cal pistols with no real effect until an officer armed with a .44 cal pistol (likely what we know as a Dragoon?) killed it with 2 shots.

If a '60 Army, '58 NMA, and ROA with their similar chamber capacities are only capable of achieving .38 Spl power levels a few more grains make it what, a .38 Spl +P?

The one thing I'm uncertain about is that he compared Triple 7 to Swiss powder as they give very similar velocities when used in the same volume. But does that produce the same pressure and a similar enough pressure curve?

Many state that Hodgdon's states you must reduce the powder charge by 15% as it's much more powerful than BP. But that's not what it says. What it does say is that, because it is more powerful, you'll need to reduce the charge by 15% to achieve similar velocities as BP, which obviously doesn't coincide when using Swiss or Olde Eynsford powders.

I've emailed Hodgdon's several times asking for clarification on that, as well as what many state as not compressing the powder, which is another misunderstanding as their site states not to compress it when loading cartridges. What it does say is that it should be compressed "firmly" when loading muzzleloaders/cap n ball guns. They've not responded to any inquiries.

That said, I'm comfortable loading full house loads in my ROA as I know it's more than capable of handling it, but I'm leery of doing so in a reproduction or muzzleloader of any type.

February 3, 2014, 06:46 AM	#27
Chestnut Forge Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2013 Location: Polk, Pa Posts: 123	When you do make it to the range, try some RB too. I think you will be pleased with the results. My Pietta '58 shoots great with them. I'm running a .454 backed with 30 grains of FFFg. It will put six out of six in a milk jug at 50 yard from the duelist stance. That reminds me, need to pick up some more 454s. __________________ Every gun I've been behind can out shoot me.

February 3, 2014, 07:41 AM	#28
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	Try .457's....you will never shoot another 454's again. If you shoot real BP in your pistols, if you try 4ffff, you will never shoot 3ff again either. __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46."

February 3, 2014, 09:34 AM	#30
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	Olde E is a little hotter...so 3f may be enough if you use the Olde E. The 4f that I shoot is Grafs' and it works real well in revolvers. For anyone new to the sport...DON'T us the 4f as the main charge in any rifle!! (or single shot pistol) __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46." Last edited by freedom475; February 3, 2014 at 10:20 AM.

February 3, 2014, 01:48 AM	#26
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	I've yet to get to the range with it. But I intend on spending alllll day once I get there! I finally broke in my rifle and need to work on an accurate hunting load for it, as well as try some more of the 320 grn REALs I have. Back to the pistol…. I've read that the Pietta doesn't do as well with conicals as it does with RB's as the twist is slower and geared towards them instead. So I had worked with Tom at Accurate Molds to design some bullets that are shorter and the same length a ball, but weigh quite a bit more, though I see my designs were removed recently now that nearing ordering time. I'm not sure what the problem is so I sent him another email. But in theory they ought to do much better than a ball or other conical.

February 3, 2014, 08:27 AM	#29
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	If Goex made Olde Eynsford in 4F I'd try it. Swiss is too expensive. I cast .457" RB's.

February 3, 2014, 02:31 PM	#31
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	According to a fellow who researched Civil War pistol cartridges found that the small powder charges (15-22 grns) used with conicals were about equivalent to 4F, and that the power levels achieved were like that of Swiss. I find this very interesting as many state that these cap n ball guns are no more powerful than a .38 Spl if using a .44 cal gun. But it seems their findings are based on common powders available during the 60's and 70's, and not on what was available then. The pine board penetration tests show that what they used was obviously more powerful than the more common powders available, not to mention the military record of soldiers (many) shooting a brown bear with their .36 cal pistols with no real effect until an officer armed with a .44 cal pistol (likely what we know as a Dragoon?) killed it with 2 shots. If a '60 Army, '58 NMA, and ROA with their similar chamber capacities are only capable of achieving .38 Spl power levels a few more grains make it what, a .38 Spl +P? The one thing I'm uncertain about is that he compared Triple 7 to Swiss powder as they give very similar velocities when used in the same volume. But does that produce the same pressure and a similar enough pressure curve? Many state that Hodgdon's states you must reduce the powder charge by 15% as it's much more powerful than BP. But that's not what it says. What it does say is that, because it is more powerful, you'll need to reduce the charge by 15% to achieve similar velocities as BP, which obviously doesn't coincide when using Swiss or Olde Eynsford powders. I've emailed Hodgdon's several times asking for clarification on that, as well as what many state as not compressing the powder, which is another misunderstanding as their site states not to compress it when loading cartridges. What it does say is that it should be compressed "firmly" when loading muzzleloaders/cap n ball guns. They've not responded to any inquiries. That said, I'm comfortable loading full house loads in my ROA as I know it's more than capable of handling it, but I'm leery of doing so in a reproduction or muzzleloader of any type.