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June 13, 2010, 07:09 PM | #1 | ||
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For Those Who Open Carry:
Recent incident:
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html Quote:
Quote:
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June 13, 2010, 08:48 PM | #2 | |
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Location: Michigan
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As more and more people OC this was bound to happen and OP's quote is right on the money, criminals can read body language like street signs. They would never rob the guy with his head up, back straight, in a suit, watching his surroundings even if he didn't have a gun. They will rob the guy who is acting shy, quiet, has his head down, is smiling at passersby funny, and is generally timid, even if that guy has a gun. In fact, the gun is an extra part of the loot! Guns do not scare criminals, actions taken by people scare criminals.
On this particular incident, there is a very interesting twist. The BG had trouble getting the gun out of the holster, so the OCer helped him get it out. A lot of people (myself included) are proponents of martial arts training along with firearms training. At this point, the robber is in melee range, he is distracted, has his head down, is not looking at where his gun is aiming, and is expecting movement from the OCer. In this vein, the BG is lucky the OCer wasn't trained in hand-to-hand combat or this could have ended very differently. But that goes back to OP's quote; BGs know who is an easy target. They wouldn't have picked this guy if they thought he wouldn't be an easy target. Quote:
Lesson learned: Don't be a target. A gun does not put a force field around you that BGs can't penetrate. Don't be a target (reason it's there twice). OC is sometimes not a very good choice for some individuals. |
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June 14, 2010, 05:23 AM | #3 |
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One loses tactical advantage when open carrying and is demonstrated by the incident above, indeed may cause one to be a victim of crime instead of a deterrent. The victim in this case is extremely lucky he was not shot with his own gun...the BG just wanted the gun. What if the BG was hopped up on drugs and was in some wild tirade?
Absolute tactical advantage is held when the BG has no idea you are armed. And when you do carry, make sure you can easily present/draw your weapon from its place of concealment. How many of us really practice that? Ideally, drawing from your place of concealment should be practiced until you are fluid and comfortable, and the gun easily is removed from its holster and into the ready position. Further, this should be practiced with each different method of concealment you use and with each different holster you use. For most of us, it becomes far easier if we carry the same weapon in the same holster in the same body position each and every time in that it removes the thinking process and becomes a matter of muscle memory function. As also mentioned, a knowledge of martial arts would be a positive. However, a decent defensive handgun course will teach some basic, good moves such as putting your non-shooting arm/hand out to protect your gun from being knocked/taken away while you draw. Simply having a gun does not relieve you of the responsibly (to yourself and your loved ones) of maintaining your state of awareness, especially if you are in less than desirable neighborhoods. Apparently, the gentleman that let himself be robbed of his gun thought his gun being open carried was all he needed and let his attention to what was going on around him lapse. And one more thing to think about: there is nothing that says your gun must remain in its holster if you conceal carry...just that it be concealed. There have been times in the past where I had inadvertently wondered while walking into areas that made me very uncomfortable. I discreetly removed my gun from its holster keeping it gripped in my hand with my hand tucked into the inside of my sport jacket thus eliminating the time to draw if the gun was needed. When I felt that I was no longer in an area of "threat", the gun went discreetly back into the holster, happy that I no longer needed to keep it at the ready.
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45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member Last edited by 45Gunner; June 14, 2010 at 05:32 AM. |
June 14, 2010, 02:13 PM | #4 |
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I discreetly removed my gun from its holster keeping it gripped in my hand with my hand tucked into the inside of my sport jacket thus eliminating the time to draw if the gun was needed. When I felt that I was no longer in an area of "threat", the gun went discreetly back into the holster, happy that I no longer needed to keep it at the ready.
Interesting, I've never heard this before. It seems like a good idea, but what if someone saw this? would that be against the law? I know to be aware of my surroundings, but this seems like it could be risky. I pocket carry during the summer and during a high stress time I've gripped the gun in my pocket (of course finger off trigger) just in case. But actually pulling it out and holding it behind a jacket, I've never really considered. Hmmm I'm going to have to think on this idea more.
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June 15, 2010, 04:56 PM | #5 | ||
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Quote:
I think the "tactical advantage" is won or lost by situational awareness as you seem to demonstrate with this: Quote:
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June 15, 2010, 05:08 PM | #6 |
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It's a good point - we will have to wait and see if OC folks become specific targets. It wouldn't be hard to target such folks if you want the gun. Even spider-sense isn't going to stop someone from drawing from concealment and just shooting you. Will that happen? Empirical question - probably determined by the economics of such a property crime and the risks invovled.
We will see. Speculation is fun.
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June 15, 2010, 05:14 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
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June 15, 2010, 05:42 PM | #8 |
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I would also suggest that a discussion about effective open carry based upon this incident is skewed... the guy lived in a crappy neighborhood full of criminals and gang bangers and WI does not allow concealed carry.
If I had to absolutely go into a neighborhood known to be gang banger territory, I would conceal. 1st priority is simply to stay out of those areas and remain in places likely to have the more common simple criminals looking to make a quick and easy buck: and choosing a target that is known to have a gun is not conducive to making a quick and easy buck! |
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