Changes in how I carry- pros and cons?

[chaim]

I have been rethinking everything lately...

I originally almost never carried (CCW permits for "regular" people just don't happen in MD). I carried at home for a year or two with a cheap Uncle Mikes (strong side, between 3:30 to 4:00, just barely behind the hip) since you don't need much in the privacy of your own home. Then I bought a decent holster for some of my guns, still in the same place. Even now, with holsters for many of my guns, they are all strong side, 3:30-4:30, mostly IWB. For some years now, I've had a UT non-resident permit that lets me carry in most of the surrounding states (where I carry about 2-3 days a month, sometimes a bit more).

I've rethought my carry philosophy regarding the type of gun I carry a few times through the years, and I have returned to what I shoot best (1911 and CZ) as my primary carry and defensive guns. Through all those years and changes, I've carried IWB (90% of the time), 3:30-4:30 on the strong side, and when I do OWB it has still remained in the same place.

So, the purpose of this thread...


I have resolved to carry a backup as often as I can when I carry. Maybe if MD goes shall-issue someday or I move and I carry everyday I'll change my mind, but as a part-time carrier I should be able to do it most of the time that I carry. That lead me to rethinking my holster choices, initially just by thinking about where to put my backup, but eventually I started rethinking everything...

First, either for the backup, or a change for my primary, I have started thinking appendix carry. However, I am a big guy (almost 6', I'm back up to 290LBS but I should be losing weight again soon). I read mixed things about how it may work for a big guy, but it sounds doable (maybe). If I can do it, it seems to have the advantage of being more accessible when driving. most likely AIWB would be just for a small backup, but I'm considering it for the primary as well if I can make it work with my size.

I may do a small gun (keep my LCP, or replace it with a small .380 with better sights) in a pouch of some sort as my backup. I hate fanny packs, but maybe something like the Sneaky Pete. Or a larger gun in a true off body carry (I wouldn't consider that for a primary, but for a 2nd handgun, maybe). If I do that I'll keep my primary strong side 3:30-4:30 (unless I switch to AIWB).

I've also thought about two single stacks (maybe a Commander and Officer sized 1911), one strong side IWB, the other weak side IWB. That may be too much IWB, and definitely would be when one is a double stack, so one gun (probably on the strong side) would be moved to OWB carry.

I may consider ankle carry for a backup (either my P290RS, or keeping one of my J-frames). It would be quite easy to get to when sitting or driving.

Lately, I've thought about repositioning my primary. It makes sense to think of the gun that is most accessible to your strong hand as the primary and to put your larger gun there. However, the smaller the gun, the more I need my more coordinated right hand to be competent with it. So, I was thinking that I might put my smaller gun on my strong side, and conceal my larger gun on my weak side since I can handle and fire larger guns better with my left hand than smaller guns. If I do this, I'm sure the smaller gun would for all practical purposes become the primary. Between the fact that I favor my right hand anyway, plus years of training, I'm sure I'd first go for the gun on my right if I was in a defensive shoot. It seems a bit backwards, but if I am to be disadvantaged in needing to use my weaker left hand, I don't want to also be disadvantaged with a harder to use gun.

Any thoughts on where/how I should carry? AIWB for a big guy? I especially want thoughts on positioning the larger gun on the weak side and the smaller gun (more traditionally thought of as the backup) on the strong side.

[chaim]

Oh, just to be clear, I don't want to switch off on carry positions. From a training perspective that is a bad idea, you don't want to have to think about where your gun is if you ever need it. Wherever I decide to position my primary, it will always stay there. If I make a switch (say, to AIWB), it will always stay there and I will train to insure the new position is programmed into my muscle memory. The backup might change depending upon dress or other needs (though even with that, I may choose one position and carry method and stick with it- again, the simpler the better).

[Aguila Blanca]

Heck, this is just for around home? And you want a backup gun?

Quit foolin around ...

[g.willikers]

Just gotta' ask:
From your description of how and when you carry a shootin' iron, why do you need two guns?
It seems like too much complication for an everyday guy.
Unless you're an undercover agent of course.
Only wondering.

[JoeSixpack]

I think they're asking about the future possibly when they can carry every day every where.

I agree a back up is overkill for inhome carry.

With that said I just got my first Mouse/Pocket gun.
A Taurus 709.. Actually I think it's just about the size where pocket carry is kinda stretching it but not really big enough to be a belt gun.

You and Me are pretty close in size, Im a little taller.
Anyway I plan on carrying the 709 in a pocket holster up front on my strong side.
I don't like carrying in a back pocket, I considered using the left side front pocket so I'd have easier access with my off hand, but there are times when I will only have the 709 and I wanna be consistent.

My primary gun is a Taurus 99 (think Beretta 92) OWB 3 - 3:30 strong.
This is not the best conceal carry setup but it's very comfortable, and I can use the Serpa style holster for both CC and OC so there is consistency.

I would suggest what ever you end up settling on try to keep it consistent.
If you go IWB I'd look for a compact/midsize gun.. IWB definitely beats OWB for concealment, but OWB wins hands down for comfort, and I think it's easier to get to.

I prefer plastic holsters, they draw smooth as glass and reholster with a satisfying *click*, Are very robust and more or less maintenance free.

This is what works for me.. it may work for you.. Most serious carriers end up going thru several holsters before they fine the one they love.

[chaim]

Heck, this is just for around home? And you want a backup gun?

From your description of how and when you carry a shootin' iron, why do you need two guns?

When I carry at home I carry one, and have another gun or two loaded but in a safe.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post my UT non-resident permit and that I carry whenever in a state that honors it (typically several days per month). In fact, since I'm CCWing in a carry state only part-time, that makes it more likely for me to be able to do a backup gun every time than if I carried daily. So many people who live in a CCW state simply drop a gun in a pocket when on their way to the store (at least based upon postings here and other gun boards), where I'm always going to be wearing my gun and have planned out how to carry. The fact that it is less routine makes me less likely to treat it as an everyday routine and actually plan and work at it.

I think they're asking about the future possibly when they can carry every day every where.

I get to a state where I can legally carry 2-4 days a month, plus most vacations. The nearby states of WV, VA,and DE allow carry on a non-res UT permit, plus I'm applying soon for a non-res NH permit since PA no longer takes the UT non-resident permit, but they do take the NH non-res. I am in VA and DE several days a month (and PA will add several more once I have the NH CCW). I get to WV at times, and often go camping there. So, while I don't carry full-time (CCW permits in MD aren't that accessible), I do carry outside my home fairly often. Though, I do hope that the Peruta case out of California may get to the Supreme Court, the issues are similar enough to MD law that if it does, and if it is decided correctly, MD may finally have to go shall-issue (and I still may move to PA or VA eventually if I get a realistic chance).

[Doc Holliday 1950]

Chaim,

We live in "Yankee Doodle" Fl. moved here (not originally from) Tennessee where
we could carry open or concealed. I never carried open and I am about as ordinary as mom's apple pie.

Then we moved last Fall to Fl. which is a concealed stated only. Both of my permits are valid 24/7 except for the usual places.
I'm opposite from you as I'm 5'10" and 135 lbs. rock solid. At best I carry in the waist either a G19 or sometimes my G43 with an extra. Even when I was 6' and 170 it always was that type of carry ecept for occasional sholder holster. Only difference was all my guns where wheels, 357 mags and 2.5" to 4 "with a speed loader. Then I switched to Pistols.

If I may inquire, What caused you to want to carry so much artillery? Was it because of the incident about the people who knocked on your door?
Don't have a problem with what you carry, just curious.

[chaim]

If I may inquire, What caused you to want to carry so much artillery? Was it because of the incident about the people who knocked on your door?
Don't have a problem with what you carry, just curious.

It is just that I never really consider my home defense or carry choices permanent. They are always open to revision as needed. Recently, when I stared rethinking one area (back to the 1911) I started rethinking others.

I've posted many times about why I like a larger and higher capacity gun now than I used to. Most of us (and I'm certainly no exception) shoot them better than smaller typical CCW guns. A little more capacity is always good (no one ever ended a gun fight wishing for less ammo), we won't hit with every shot, it takes on average 2-3 shots to incapacitate one attacker, thus most CCW sized guns are good for one attacker (some misses, 2-3 hits). Well, what if there are 2 or 3 attackers? So, I want capacity, size to reduce misses and have faster follow up shots, and/or a reload or backup.

As for a backup, I think a lot of people carry one (at least a lot of people say they do). When I used to carry 2 it was to compensate for the low capacity of a J-frame and on the slim chance the revolver malfunctioned (a typical revolver malfunction is more likely to put it completely out of commission than an auto malfunction). Now, there are a few reasons I'm thinking about it. One, while rethinking the type of gun I carry (back to the 1911), I ended up thinking through everything I do for carry when out of state. Some is simply, if I can, why not carry an extra? It can provide a gun on my left side if I'm using my right hand to block an attack, grapple with an attacker, or if my right hand is injured. By having it placed differently (if I don't go with IWB weak side for the backup) it could be accessible at times when my primary isn't so accessible (primarily when driving). And of course all the other reasons people may carry a backup: faster than a reload or another option if your primary malfunctions. It is also a solution for my preference for capacity, but I shoot a 1911 best so I'm going back to that (competing preferences), simply carry 2 guns to get the capacity.

The incident with the people trying my door knob to get into my apartment left me with an adrenaline dump at the time, but didn't really shake me up. These things happen, I was well prepared with 10 rounds of.45 IWB ready to defend myself if they got in. I don't see carrying a backup in my home (though the handgun is really just to buy time to get to my AR if needed, though I'd rather have a more PC looking, this is MD so I need to consider that, wood stocked Mini-14 or bolt scout rifle with removable mags for that).

[chaim]

So, any larger guys carry AIWB? Any tips? Anyone with tips on how to carry a backup for people who don't like pocket carry? Oh, and perhaps most importantly, anyone carry their larger handgun on their weak side and their backup on their strong side?

[JoeSixpack]

There's nothing to stop you from carrying more then one gun IWB, there is ankle carry for backup.. belly bands.

I've never tried belly bands or ankle holsters but I hear ankle holsters takes some getting use to and can flop around, And the belly bands I hear is really hot in summer.

Oh wait there is also "thunder ware" never tried that either but eww.

I know the keltec's have clip's that mount on the side for IWB carry suppose to be pretty good but I prefer my trigger's covered.

I suppose you could go with a fanny pack but I think you said you don't like those.

[TailGator]

I carry one pistol at a time, so take this for what it is worth, but my initial reaction is that I would want my primary pistol to be most accessible to my dominant hand. A backup pistol is considerably less likely to be called into service. The primary is the one I count on to end the problem. If I need a pistol, I want my best pistol in my best hand.

I'm also not a fan of appendix carry, but it seems to me that the more you have lapping over the belt the slower and more difficult it would be. Seems to me it is for the young and slender, of which I am neither.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Okay, going to type this out fast.

I'm 6'2 175lbs.

I don't like pocket carry. Exercise all options before switching to this. I don't like the draw, the holsters, or the pocket carrying guns.

Appendix? Good to go. Don't mind it. Get a good Kydex holster that won't collapse on you in general. Especially in this area. PHLster, G-Code INCOG, etc.

3:30 / 4:00, also good to go. I'm carrying there right now because my backup gun is a Smith and Wesson 360PD which is appendix carried. At my 3 o'clock sits a Glock 19 with a Surefire X300U.

Ankle, as a secondary gun? Sure. I wouldn't make it my primary carry. Then again I wouldn't make any gun that's small enough to be ankle carried my primary gun. Think, P229 / Glock 19 and bigger for concealed carry.

You mentioned 1911 commanders and officers. I have 2 commanders and they are the light weight ones that way a pinch less than my Glock 19 in some cases, otherwise, they're about the same.


So, 3/4 o'clock and appendix are good to go. IWB

You mentioned OWB if you're mainly carrying at home and or in the winter, that'll work for you. A big jacket that won't show the holster/gun when you move? Good.

The situation always dictates the method of carrying. I have an appendix holster for my Glock 19 with the X300U in my carry bag along with an appendix holster for the Glock 19 alone without the light.

I also have medical in my bag. Quick clot, trauma shears, tourniquets, gauze, a decompression needle, etc.


So you just have to be, like Bruce Lee said, water. Take the shape of the situation.

[Doc Holliday 1950]

Chaim,
You & I have spoken before. From my point of view, you should carry whatever makes you feel safe no matter what anyone else says. Carry your main carry in the manner which you can get to it the fastest and safest.If you feel a secondary pistol/revolver is necessary,then do so.
Right now I carry either my Glock 19 in the waist or my Glock 43 same with an extra mag in my pocket. So, either it's 16- 9 mm 124 grain JHP's Gold Dots or Federal HST 124 grain JHP
in My 19 or 13 of the same in my G43/extra mag. I'm totally cool either way.

[chaim]

Carry your main carry in the manner which you can get to it the fastest and safest.If you feel a secondary pistol/revolver is necessary,then do so.

You know, I probably should say a word about this in regards to considering moving my primary to AIWB (if my gut isn't too big for that) or using my backup in an ankle holster (though I hate ankle holsters, I am a big guy, which means big calves as well).

Because I live in MD where I can't get a permit (wrong career choices, if I chose with getting a MD carry permit in mind I would have opened a business that deals with a lot of cash or easily liquidated merchandise like guns or jewelry, or I would have become a prosecutor, judge or cop), my carry needs when I carry out of state on my non-resident permit are perhaps a little different from those who can carry day to day.

Under normal circumstances, going about your day, going to the grocery story, hitting the mall or Walmart, etc. a strong side IWB/OWB placed between 3-4:00 would probably be quickest. When I'm mostly standing and walking while out of the house, as when shopping, that is the fastest way for me to draw most of the time and thus probably the best way for me to carry. When I think about my activities when carrying v. day to day activities my needs and activities are a little different.

Sure, sometimes I'm going shopping and things aren't much different from if it was a day to day activity here at home. Many of my trips to Deleware (if I'm not going to the beach) are to take advantage of the fact that they have no sales tax so I may be at a mall or Cabelas. On those trips, it may be the one stop and then back home like if I was in MD.

Many of my trips to a carry state are vacation or sightseeing day trips. On those trips I spend a lot more time than usual in the car (not just the freeway driving to get there). I will be in the car getting to my next museum or beach, next outdoor activity, next restaurant I have to try, next stop on the auto-tour, or to the next history re-enactment. At home, I generally know the cities I'm driving in. I know where the bad parts of town are, and I know how to avoid them to get where I'm going. When on vacation, I may not know how to avoid bad parts of town to get where I'm going and just follow my GPS, thus I'm more likely to be driving through shady parts of town, and worse, I won't always know when I'm in a bad part of town in order to bring my situational awareness up a notch or two.

Even my day trips to areas I know pretty well usually involve a lot of time in the car stopping at lights or stop signs. I've been checking out real estate in parts of PA, DE and VA within about a 2 hour commute to my job (I'm not sure I want to do a 2hr commute just for carry rights on my personal time, and I'm pretty sure I can't really afford NOVA, but I'm thinking about it). I also do day trips to go sightseeing in areas that are favorite areas that I've been to many times.

So, part of my thoughts about moving my primary to AIWB is two-fold. I won't always carry a backup which I can position based upon where I can get it when sitting/driving (I foresee taking a backup occasionally, not all the time). When I'm in a carry state, I spend more than an average amount of time in a car driving around a residential or commercial area (or worse, an area where the bad guys know there will be a lot of tourists). When sitting/driving I can get to an AIWB gun a lot faster than one carried 3-4:00.

Again, I'm faster strong side 3-4:00 (after 17 or 18 years of practice I should be), but with practice I can get there. I could solve the above by moving the primary depending upon circumstances. When shopping in DE (and home defense at home), put it at 3-4:00, when doing the tourist thing or looking at townhouses and condos and doing a lot of driving without carrying a backup carry AIWB and move it back to 3-4:00 when carrying a backup. Of course, the problems with that are obvious, I'd rather it always be in the same place, thus my considering moving my primary to AIWB.

[chaim]

After reading my last post, I'm thinking I should possibly consider moving my primary to a crossdraw holster on my weak side. It would be easier to get to when sitting or driving than strong side 3-4:00, and either hand could access it. My left hand would need extra movements since it would be facing the 'wrong' way, but it could fairly easily access the gun. Then, I'd be covered when I didn't carry a backup. When I did carry a backup, it could be placed at my old 3-4:00 strong side position and my strong hand could easily access both guns while still allowing my weak hand to reach my primary should my strong hand be out of commission.

[JoeSixpack]

Cross draw will generally be slower when standing, however in the seated position cross draw has some REAL merit.

If you're going to be in a vehicle a lot it's a perfectly logical choice.
You could also look at shoulder holsters those also make good options for someone who spends a lot of time in the seated position and can be very comfortable with the right setup.

[TailGator]

Again, I don't carry AIWB, but I have a hard time seeing that to be an easy place to draw from when sitting in a car, with a seat belt on, and even worse for a heavy guy.

My favorite holster for long drives is an extremely unfashionable fanny pack. The pistol lays right in my lap with easy access. If I stop at a rest stop or a gas station, I don't much care what strangers think of my sartorial taste. If my destination is somewhere that such things matter, it isn't at all hard to switch the pistol to an IWB holster at my preferred 3:30 or 4:00 position when I arrive, and ditch the fanny pack until I get back to the car for the long drive home.

[JoeSixpack]

I know what IWB, is and OWB is.. but what's AIWB?

Cross draw is good for sitting because the gun is canted with the grip away from you.. if you're the driver and you're right handed this puts the gun on the left, seat belt buckle will be on your right.. although if you're a passenger it would be on your left.

I carry OWB @ 3, so I usually don't wear my seat belt.. I know Im terrible, don't follow my example.

[john in jax]

Ummm . . . . you asked so I will share:

I am 6' and about 300 lbs, and think AIWB is a horrible idea. Just my 2 cents but if you are at arms length from me and go to draw from AWIB it probably wouldn't go well for you.

How about keeping your primary weapon 3 o'clock OWB or IWB (strong side).

Put your little BUG IWB at 9 o'clock (weak side) and practice drawing and shooting Left/weak hand. Don't quit running draw and fire drills with that weak hand until you got it. If the coordination / strength / reflexes on your left/weak hand are sub par, get it trained up!

[chaim]

My favorite holster for long drives is an extremely unfashionable fanny pack. The pistol lays right in my lap with easy access. If I stop at a rest stop or a gas station, I don't much care what strangers think of my sartorial taste. If my destination is somewhere that such things matter, it isn't at all hard to switch the pistol to an IWB holster at my preferred 3:30 or 4:00 position when I arrive, and ditch the fanny pack until I get back to the car for the long drive home.

You know, something like that could be a possibility. While I don't much like fanny packs, it doesn't really matter if I only wear it while in the car, then when I get to my destination I can switch back to my preferred carry. An advantage it would have over some off body carry is that it would be legal when in states that require your CCW to be on your person while in the car (OH, where I have family, comes to mind). I thought about something like that for when I either carried a smaller gun or carried a backup. I had thought about keeping an ankle holster in the car and transferring a P290 or J-frame sized gun to that while in the car. A fanny pack where the gun is right in my lap might be easier, and it would work when I'm carrying a larger gun (which will be most of my carry time).

I know what IWB, is and OWB is.. but what's AIWB?

Appendix IWB, I think the are usually tucked, and tucked is what I have in mind. It goes on the right side right up front.



I'm thinking a little more about the cross draw possibility. I like that it can make the gun available to either my left or right hand (though it would be a little slower, with extra movement, for my left hand). When I carry a backup, it can be in the traditional 3-4:00 position, so both guns could be easily accessed with my strong hand. Then, in a pinch when my right hand is out of commission, I could fairly reasonably get to the primary with my left hand when needed. The main disadvantage is that most holsters I've seen specifically for cross draw are OWB, an I prefer IWB tuckable holsters since I usually tuck in my shirts (an OWB for occasional use is fine but I want both types to be in the same position for training purposes).

[Kevin Rohrer]

IWB only really works for non-large people. OWB is more important.

And I have no way to word my opinion on "backups" that would please the Topic Police.

[chaim]

IWB only really works for non-large people. OWB is more important.

I've carried IWB for about 90% of my carry time, and I am a large guy. It is comfortable for me with the right gun, and it disappears quite well.

I'm not asking how well IWB works for a big guy, because I know that (for me at least) it works very well. I'm asking about switching to AIWB for a big guy, and thinking about switching to other positions as well so either hand can access my defensive pistol (and/or carrying a backup largely for the same reason, so I can also draw with my left when/if needed).