Help Me Understand What The Big Deal is with the "Saint"

[Martowski]

Okay, so I opened up my latest edition of American Rifleman today and see that the Springfield Armory SAINT won a Golden Bullseye award for the Tactical Rifle of the Year or something like that. I have nothing against this rifle at all, it looks like a decently outfitted AR. However, I have a hard time understanding what makes it so special and has every gun writer falling over themselves about this.

Let's take a look. It's a 16" 1:8 AR with aftermarket furniture, correct? Barrel has nitride finish, and the rifle has flip up sights. Yes, it comes with an adjustable stock like most ARs. Again, not a bad rifle I'm sure, but hardly sounds unique to me at all. I know you can only do so much with some platforms and I'm not expecting this thing to perform miracles, but I honestly am curious what makes this so special besides the fact that SA had a huge marketing build up and are trying to create a lifestyle niche around this (similar to what SIG is doing with Legion).

Anyway, please help me understand as this sounds like a pretty standard AR with standard components in today's age.

[FrankenMauser]

You said it yourself:
Marketing.





It reminds me of a saying in the old car / hot rod world:
Do you know what the difference is between "rust" and "patina"?



$30,000

[Water-Man]

. Looks ok on paper.
. It's a Springfield.
. It's new and hasn't been around for long.

[Chainsaw.]

Its the newest skinny blonde bimbo.

Moving on.

[rickyrick]

Saint or s'ain't only time will tell.

The name makes me not like it, otherwise seems like a decent rifle.

[jetinteriorguy]

Marketing. That's the only way set it apart from every other AR, at least in the perception of the buying public.

[turtlehead]

I haven't even looked twice at it.

[Brit]

I have a buddy who bought one, he loves it? I have a AUG and an AK47, not into rifles much. But he is, and likes this one.

[Martowski]

So far, seeing the fact that it's a decent garden-variety AR but really not much else.

[Joe-ker]

I hear ya Martowski! I like my AR's as much as the next guy but big whoop, right? I suppose the mossburg Mmr will get the award next year? The market is saturated. It seems like a bad business model for a firearm maker to join the black gun crowd at this point but I guess it goes to show how easy it is to bang out these stamped guns and the price margins involved.


Heck someone should start making the Monitor again- that'd be noteworthy.

[FITASC]

NRA accolades are about as useful as JD Powers - both can easily be bought with enough time and money. Marketing, sell the sizzle, not the steak

[COSteve]

Most gun mag writers are just glorified salesmen for the industry. The Saint is just the 'New Guy on the Block'.

A few years ago S&W came out with a mid length carbine dressed in Magpul furniture, light weight barrel, and their FH. Currently, they have a number of versions of it. Springfield seems to have copied the idea with Bravo furniture instead.

[rickyrick]

Did seem like an odd time to jump into the AR market.

[bedlamite]

Obviously, they are trying to capitalize on bad Val Kilmer movies.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I won't disagree the Val Kilmer version is bad; but it was a remake.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Chainsaw

Its the newest skinny blonde bimbo.

Great.

Now I have to have one and I don't even know why!

[themalicious0ne]

Marketing plays a huge role. One of the things they really have done correctly in marketing is advertising BCM furniture, their trigger and the mid-length gas system.

BCM has a sterling reputation online. Mass public may just read the name, see they are great and attribute that to the Saint.

If they do not know about gas systems, and look up mid length online, most online forums recommend mid-length as more suitable for 16" barrels. Most major manufacturers either dont advertise on their midlength rifles or the big box stores don't even have the option available at their locations.

If you have felt mil-spec triggers and 90% of the AR's at big box stores use mil-spec, the Saints trigger may feel improved.

That is why the saint is doing well. Honestly, if I worked at a gun store and all we carried were Colts, S&W, and Springfield for instance, at that pricepoint, that would probably be my recommendation for selling OTD that day.

To be honest, it our fault in the online community. We debate and discuss the "importance" of certain aspects so much that these topics come up for someone doing research. Not that there is anything wrong with it. But seriously, If I knew nothing about AR's, saw what they were marketing in those differences and did 20 minutes of research on those 3 things, I would probably be convinced to purchase the Saint too. And I don't mean to say that the Saint is better or that "name your brand" doesn't have those options or "small awesome manufacturer" doesn't make better AR's. I am just saying for the uninitiated who can use the power of google at the store mixed with these marketing features, you have a winning product.

[Badgerstate]

Marketing. Nothing more, nothing less. Springfield is very good at marketing their products. Just look at the hype behind the XD and the Range Officer.

[FrankenMauser]

Marketing. Nothing more, nothing less. Springfield is very good at marketing their products. Just look at the hype behind the XD and the Range Officer.

What?...?.

I thought the XD, XDs, or XDm being on the second page, in the centerfold, and on the back cover of every NRA publication for four years was just coincidence?


Speaking of which...
Has anyone else noticed that it's been 100% Kimber since the XD variants were supplanted?

[COSteve]

Sometimes the manufacturers get it right and produce a version that fits a type lots of people want.

For example I bought an RRA mid-length gas carbine in the early 2000's and over the years dressed it up, down, and sideways. Finally, I got tired of all the extra weight and decided to go lightweight. First thing I did was to ship the upper to Steve at ACDO and asked him to reprofile the HBAR barrel to a lightweight and then cut it down to 14.7", recrown it and then pin and weld an A2 FH to keep it legal. Then I removed all the 'extras' and put on a Magpul CTR and MOE handguard and added a Troy flip BUIS to keep it's weight down. It now weighs only 5lbs 15oz (w/o mag) as you see it below.



My son loved it's light weight so much, a few years later he liberated it from me so I decided to look around for something that was already like what I'd made. Turns out the then brand new S&W M&P15 Mid Magpul MOE was available at a local GS so I checked it out.

Other than the lightweight 16" vs 14.7" barrel, std Mil vs RRA's NM 2-stage Trigger (I recently added a RRA 2-stage to the S&W), MOE vs Troy BUIS I added to the RRA, and the MOE vs CTR buttstock I put on my RRA, the S&W version was pretty similar to what I'd come up with many years before.

So, I snatched it up and other than adding a custom pistol grip and an A2 FH (not in picture), I've left it as it came since I got it almost 4 yrs ago.



Goes to show that sometimes the AR makers produce a version that works as sold.

[Martowski]

Okay, so I'm not missing something here. I didn't know if the SAINT came with a coffee grinder in the buttstock or some other contraption that made it stand out, but apparently not (coffee grinder in the buttstock actually did happen on an old flintlock rifle once).

I recently built another AR using an Anderson lower, CBC Upper (which included a 1:8 nitride finished 16" barrel and HERA Arms keymod handguard), Magpul grip and rear stock, and flip up iron sights for around $500 all in (bolt carrier is nitride finished as well). Even put a very specific flash hider/compensator on as well that I wanted. While this isn't something the average AR buyer would do, I looked at my AR and looked at the SAINT and was hard pressed to see $200 more gun in the SAINT vs what I built.

But, to each his own, and the SAINT will carry the Springfield Armory name which is certainly a well recognized, well regarded brand.

[holmegaard]

A mini-review on the one I own...

Just passed 1200 rounds. Was able to spend some time shooting several ARs before purchasing my first. Rented some at a local range (Springfield, S&W, Ruger, DD), & shot a few builds that a buddy had done (high $$$). Didn't have problems with any, but really liked the furniture & features (none of them groundbreaking, just nice touches) on the Springfield.

Checked all the boxes regarding what I'd been told to look for in materials & construction... thought the price was decent, so that's what I went with.

Very pleased with accuracy. Reliability has been great (zero malfunctions), but still a relatively small sample size & I'm not the type to do torture testing like you see in some of the youtube videos. At this point I can't find any nits to pick with it.

Let me add that I was for the most part, blissfully unaware of the advertising blitz behind the Saint. Other than a sidebar ad on one or another website, hadn't heard of it. Might have passed on renting one & crossed it off the list entirely had I ingested that whole campaign, complete with "impartial" reviews from the usual suspects. Sure, you gotta get the word out, but... Just. Too. Much.

Anyhoo... Can't tell you there's any one thing that makes this rifle incredibly special. The sum of many small design & build features did make for a total package that fit my needs & tastes though.

[Martowski]

Glad it's working out well for you. It's a decently appointed AR from a great manufacturer for sure. I was just a little suprised when I saw the NRA award and couldn't figure out if I was missing something.

[Mike38]

Great.

Now I have to have one and I don't even know why!

Because you're a "Sugar Daddy" with tons of disposable cash?

[holmegaard]

Glad it's working out well for you. It's a decently appointed AR from a great manufacturer for sure. I was just a little suprised when I saw the NRA award and couldn't figure out if I was missing something.

Yeah, rambled a bit but never did hazard a guess at your actual question I guess... so I'll go with "marketing"

Like the blog, btw.