204 tumblers?

mikeyg · June 7, 2010, 08:31 PM

today I shot reloads from my Handi rifle in 204 ruger.they were all over the place & on the 50 yd range they left a hole in the target looking like they went thru sideways.could they be tumbling & why?

ScottRiqui · June 7, 2010, 08:38 PM

Sure sounds like they're tumbling. Have you used this recipe in this rifle before? Possible causes include a bullet that's moving too slowly, or one that's too long for the rifling twist rate of your gun.

Tell us a little more about the load - powder, bullet weight, etcetera.

5R milspec · June 7, 2010, 08:40 PM

we need more info.tell use the load.

mikeyg · June 7, 2010, 08:45 PM

they were 40 gr V max bullets using28 grains of Win 748

ScottRiqui · June 7, 2010, 08:58 PM

Have you shot the 40 gr V-max out of this rifle before? Also, do you know the rifle's twist rate? 1:12 is a fairly common rate for the .204, and 40 gr is right on the border of being stabilized with that rate - some rifles will shoot them, others won't. Looking online, I found some other accounts of 40 gr bullets keyholing - sometimes horribly - in 1:12 .204 barrels.

mikeyg · June 7, 2010, 09:11 PM

no I have not-this was the first. dont know the rate of twist-I think it is 1 in 12.guess I'll go back to the32 gr bullets-they drive tacks.I heard Varget is real hard to get-any sugestions on powder for that bullet? thanx Scott

mrawesome22 · June 7, 2010, 09:44 PM

Varget won't be a good choice in that cartridge IMO. Try some Benchmark or H322... maybe some IMR3031? Anyway, you'll want a powder in a faster burning class than Varget. Varget's burn speed is up there with IMR4064 and the likes.

QuickLoad shows about a max charge of 26.8gr of Varget at only burning 93.02% of the powder with a 32gr VMAX. Velocity calculated at 3817fps using a 26" barrel.

H322 looks very promising. A 22.6gr charge calculates to 4063fps with 99.39% powder burned. A 95.6% case fill and a 23.4 ballistic efficiency. 58,423PSI MAP with a 26" barrel. Looks good to me.

This a MAX LOAD! Don't even think of going for this without consulting reloading manuals and working your way up!

MO. Shootin · June 8, 2010, 11:01 PM

I shot factory hornady 40grain v max thru my H&R bull barrel 204 and they key holed just like that. I went to a factory 32 grain Vmax and it shot really really good all the way to 400 yards which is as far as I have shot it.

So when I went to reload I got some 32 grain hornady v max and some benchmark powder. That shot ok but not great.

When it really got accurate was when I tried a 32 grain Sierra bullet with the same charge of benchmark with the same long seating depth. I just left everything the same and switched the bullet and it shoots really well.

I will send you my final load if you like but I don't have access to it tonight.
It will put 5 shots in 1 hole at 100 yds in my rifle.

troy_mclure · June 9, 2010, 12:36 AM

if you are wanting a heavier bullet try the 36gr.

Toddco · June 9, 2010, 04:04 PM

I have the savage flv in .204, it has a 1-12 twist, 26' barrell. I have shot 45 grain hornady's in it with good success. My pet load is the 39 blitzking from sierra with the new imr 8208 xbr powder. Through the chrony they are at 3850fps and are at .25" at 100 metres. I am using the top 1/3 of the load tables to achieve this velocity. I have lengthened my overall cartridge length as long as i can and only leave .204" in the case (adding in any boattail of course), as to why yours may be tumbling someone mentioned earlier that they may be going to slow. I have shot every brand and weight of bullet through my savage and have yet to find a bullet that it doesn't shoot at least 1/2 decently. When i tried the berger 50 grains it even shot them in to an inch group at 100 metres.

June 7, 2010, 08:31 PM	#1
mikeyg Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2010 Posts: 8	204 tumblers? today I shot reloads from my Handi rifle in 204 ruger.they were all over the place & on the 50 yd range they left a hole in the target looking like they went thru sideways.could they be tumbling & why?

June 9, 2010, 12:36 AM	#9
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	if you are wanting a heavier bullet try the 36gr. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

June 9, 2010, 04:04 PM	#10
Toddco Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2009 Location: Stony Plain, Alberta Posts: 108	.204 keyholing I have the savage flv in .204, it has a 1-12 twist, 26' barrell. I have shot 45 grain hornady's in it with good success. My pet load is the 39 blitzking from sierra with the new imr 8208 xbr powder. Through the chrony they are at 3850fps and are at .25" at 100 metres. I am using the top 1/3 of the load tables to achieve this velocity. I have lengthened my overall cartridge length as long as i can and only leave .204" in the case (adding in any boattail of course), as to why yours may be tumbling someone mentioned earlier that they may be going to slow. I have shot every brand and weight of bullet through my savage and have yet to find a bullet that it doesn't shoot at least 1/2 decently. When i tried the berger 50 grains it even shot them in to an inch group at 100 metres.

June 7, 2010, 08:38 PM	#2
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Sure sounds like they're tumbling. Have you used this recipe in this rifle before? Possible causes include a bullet that's moving too slowly, or one that's too long for the rifling twist rate of your gun. Tell us a little more about the load - powder, bullet weight, etcetera.

June 7, 2010, 08:40 PM	#3
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	we need more info.tell use the load.

June 7, 2010, 08:45 PM	#4
mikeyg Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2010 Posts: 8	they were 40 gr V max bullets using28 grains of Win 748

June 7, 2010, 08:58 PM	#5
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Have you shot the 40 gr V-max out of this rifle before? Also, do you know the rifle's twist rate? 1:12 is a fairly common rate for the .204, and 40 gr is right on the border of being stabilized with that rate - some rifles will shoot them, others won't. Looking online, I found some other accounts of 40 gr bullets keyholing - sometimes horribly - in 1:12 .204 barrels.

June 7, 2010, 09:11 PM	#6
mikeyg Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2010 Posts: 8	no I have not-this was the first. dont know the rate of twist-I think it is 1 in 12.guess I'll go back to the32 gr bullets-they drive tacks.I heard Varget is real hard to get-any sugestions on powder for that bullet? thanx Scott

June 7, 2010, 09:44 PM	#7
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Varget won't be a good choice in that cartridge IMO. Try some Benchmark or H322... maybe some IMR3031? Anyway, you'll want a powder in a faster burning class than Varget. Varget's burn speed is up there with IMR4064 and the likes. QuickLoad shows about a max charge of 26.8gr of Varget at only burning 93.02% of the powder with a 32gr VMAX. Velocity calculated at 3817fps using a 26" barrel. H322 looks very promising. A 22.6gr charge calculates to 4063fps with 99.39% powder burned. A 95.6% case fill and a 23.4 ballistic efficiency. 58,423PSI MAP with a 26" barrel. Looks good to me. This a MAX LOAD! Don't even think of going for this without consulting reloading manuals and working your way up!

June 8, 2010, 11:01 PM	#8
MO. Shootin Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2010 Posts: 203	I shot factory hornady 40grain v max thru my H&R bull barrel 204 and they key holed just like that. I went to a factory 32 grain Vmax and it shot really really good all the way to 400 yards which is as far as I have shot it. So when I went to reload I got some 32 grain hornady v max and some benchmark powder. That shot ok but not great. When it really got accurate was when I tried a 32 grain Sierra bullet with the same charge of benchmark with the same long seating depth. I just left everything the same and switched the bullet and it shoots really well. I will send you my final load if you like but I don't have access to it tonight. It will put 5 shots in 1 hole at 100 yds in my rifle.