What's faster/more reliable? Lee auto prime or safety prime?

DaveInPA · February 19, 2008, 03:58 PM

I'm going to be buying a Lee Classic Cast press. What is my better option for priming my casings? The hand held auto prime tool or the press-mounted safety prime system?

Also, should I remove the old primers before tumbling the brass? There seems to be two ways to do it. One would be to put the brass through the decapping/resizing die and then tumble, and the other would be to buy the stand-alone decapping die to remove the old primers without resizing the brass before tumbling. Which would be the better option?

azredhawk44 · February 19, 2008, 04:06 PM

Dave:

I tumble my brass before starting any reloading operations at all, with the spent primer still in the case. If I am reloading a case that requires case lube during the resizing process, I will tumble again after sizing/decapping to remove the lube. For cartridges that I have a carbide sizer die, I will not tumble a second time.

I've found that tumbling doesn't really help at all in regards to cleaning the primer pocket or flash hole... it is more likely to leave pieces of media as an obstruction in the flash hole than it is to actually clean anything. I use either a Lee primer pocket cleaner or an EJS primer pocket reamer to clean out the detritus in the pocket if necessary.

scsov509 · February 19, 2008, 05:09 PM

Same here, tumble first and then size/deprime. Tumbling after the fact just means you'll have to clean out the flash holes.

I like Lee Auto-Prime or similar tools for single stage loading because it's quick and I don't necessarily have to sit at my press to do it. Of course one of the nice things about the Safety Prime is that you don't have to worry about using a softer primer, where as this is supposed to be more of a concern with the Auto-Prime. Doesn't matter to me though because I pretty much only use CCI and Winchester primers for the stuff I load.

Sevens · February 19, 2008, 07:19 PM

Add another vote for tumbling before resizing. Not only does the tumbler never clean out primer pockets, but that media does get stuck in the holes. And you'll find out the hard way how incredibly strong those little pieces of corn or walnut are when it displaces (Lee) or breaks (others) your decapping pin on the sizing die.

Also, tumbling first gives you clean brass to put through your sizing die rather than dirty brass.

I would likely re-think this train of thought if the tumbler would actually clean those damn primer pockets, but it doesn't, as much as I wish it did.

As for priming, I prefer the press mounted safety prime because you don't need to buy the little shell holder set for the priming tool--it uses standard shell holders. I've primed thousands of cases with Federal, Winchester and CCI primers and I've never detonated a primer at the bench.

Sevens · February 19, 2008, 07:24 PM

Hell, noticed the subject line and realized I never answered the question:

Press-mounted safety prime--It won't wear out, but takes longer to set up because you have to screw a die in to the press. This is not a long, drawn out operation but it's not as quick as grabbing the auto prime from a drawer.

The hand-held auto prime is quicker as there's no set up, but they do wear out. Most folks get years of use out of them, but they do wear them out. Many guys keep two of them in their tool box in case they snap one, they have a backup until they can replace it. With the auto-prime, you can prime cases while sitting in front of the TV if you like and you can't do that with a press-mounted tool.

But IMO, those damn primers are explosive and it's not something I really want to do with the kids crawling all over and the TV blaring and a bowl of chips sitting in front of me, so that's not a selling point.

azredhawk44 · February 20, 2008, 12:07 AM

Sevens, I did it too.

Re: safety prime or auto prime.

I'm on my second auto prime. The first one had the zamack/pot metal thumb lever snap off, and the second one is starting to show just a hint of bend in it. I've probably run about 20K primers through the combination of both of them.

You can buy spare thumb levers from Midway, no reason to own a whole extra autoprime. I found that out after the fact.

I have an RCBS Rockchucker, and I'm not familiar with the safety prime product... I've seen it on the website, but never seen one in person.

I find that the autoprime tool will fail to fully seat a large rifle primer at times. I also sometimes get high pistol primers that bind up my revolver. I think it's too tight a primer pocket on the part of my brass; I'm not using milsurp brass when this happens though (predominantly Federal, but some Winchester and Remington in there too, all segregated by headstamp and age in lots). CCI tends to be "tighter" than Winchester primers, too.

As a result, I favor Winchester primers for my large pistol loads since they load easier. For large rifle loads where I must use CCI #34 primers, I do my "initial" seating with the autoprime and use the basic priming feature of my Rockchucker to fully seat the primer to avoid high primer / slamfire potential in my M1A.

There isn't enough leverage (and/or reinforcement on the lever) in the little autoprime to accomplish the job, it seems to me. I have chosen to augment its leverage using my own method. If you're a "progressive" kind of guy, you might think differently. I mostly favor single stage loading, but I'm thinking about progressive presses this year for pistol loading... I don't know if I'd ever trust a progressive (or myself on a progressive) for rifle loads though.

I tried the RCBS equivalent of the autoprime; it was a piece of junk. Changing shell plates on it was a major pain the the rear, the priming stroke was done "from the side" rather than squeezing "down" like the autoprime and had less leverage. Mine had a nasty hitch in the priming stroke that was outright painful to listen too and made me flinch for an impending explosion from the primer each time, but it was just plastic rubbing on plastic. Feeding primers from the tray also sucked since the orientation of the thing was all off. Poorly designed tool all around.

Hope this long-winded series of anecdotes helps.

cheezhed · February 20, 2008, 02:47 AM

I use a rcbs hand primer tool . i have not primed in the press for more than 30 years i have had lee primer tools and have worn them out but i like them better as far as feel goes. the rcbs is just a little to big for my hands. when i prime i run my finger over the seated primer to feel if it is slightly below flush. i can do this quite rapidly and makes certain that i have no high primers.

DaveInGA · February 20, 2008, 12:40 PM

Dave you asked about the Lee Safety Prime, this tool, which I'll call number 1 for the sake of discussion:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...630&t=11082005

and the Lee Auto Prime, which is this tool, which I'll call number 2:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...875&t=11082005

or possibly this tool, the Lee Auto Prime 2, which I'll call number 3:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...149&t=11082005

I have tool number 1 and tool number 2 labelled above. I do not have tool number 3, but have experience with it. I'll try to answer your questions.

Tool number 1,the Lee Safety Prime, is designed to operate on the press and is an excellent primer system. It allows one to not handle the primers, while using the lever prime (primer install tool) that came with your press to install the primer. You'll have to line it up (not hard to do) when mounting it, but it's simple to use and effective.

All you have to do is use a thumb to "click" a primer into the Lever Prime (The Lever Prime comes in the box with both the Lee Classic Turret and Lee Classic Cast single stage presses.) at the top of the Ram's travel during operation, then lower the Ram and "seat" the primer into the case. This device allows one to semi-automate the the priming process and is the preferred priming method when using a Lee Classic Turret press. It works on the Lee Classic cast single stage as well.

Tool number 2, the Lee handheld Auto Prime, is also an excellent tool. It gives a very good feel for seating primers off of the press. I have one for large primers and one for small primers. It's simple to use and provides good feel when seating primers in a case. For single stage, it's the preferred tool for "batch" loading to get maximum efficiency out of a single stage, such as the Lee Classic Cast single stage.

It does, however, require the use of shellholders, but a set of these is inexpensive. Here's a link to the shellholder kit, other sizes not in the kit can be bought individually:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...058&t=11082005

Finally, there is tool number 3, the Lee Auto Prime 2 press mounted tool. This tool is a press mounted tool. I personally do not consider it as good as tools number 1 and 2 above, as it tends to be finicky from my experiences and the experiences of friends of mine. I do not recommend this tool. Others may disagree.

Here's Lee's explanation of the three tools above:

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/.../primtool.html

Were I you, if I were wanting to prime for the Lee Classic Turret press, I would buy the Lee Safety prime in large and small primer setup. If I were buying for a Lee Classic Cast single stage, I would get two of the Lee Auto prime handhelds and a set of the Lee shellholders and any singles I needed. I would not buy the Lee Auto Prime 2 press mounted tool.

Just my .02,

Dave

Smokey Joe · February 20, 2008, 07:46 PM

Dave in PA--I've used the Lee Auto-Prime handheld tools for many years, and like them a lot. You get an XLNT feel for the primer going into the pocket with the Lee tool. Yes, they do wear out after thousands of rounds. But any machine will eventually die. Pot metal wears out easier than steel.

I've broken the body of one, just below the shell-holder-holder collar, and the thumb lever of one.

Called Lee. They said "Send 'em back and we'll replace 'em." And they were as good as their word.

Now I keep 2 on hand, one set up for large primers and one set up for small. So I have a backup if one of 'em dies.

If Lee made an all-steel Auto-Prime I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Bottom Line: The Auto-Prime works as advertised, and Lee stands behind their product.

rwilson452 · February 20, 2008, 08:38 PM

The Lee safety prime is relatively now so the reliability is unknown. a problem I have seen with the autoprime is people don't read the directions and don't lube it properly. it will assuredly extend it's life. I clean and lube mine about annually. as to speed as the safety prime is used as a part of the reloading process on the press the time spend will be less as the use of the autoprime is an off line device. I suppose if you were to use the safety prime to do off line priming the speed difference wouldn't be measurable to any degree.

I will be setting up a Classic Turret with the safety prime is a couple of weeks. as the press is on order with my local dealer and I just missed is last scheduled delivery. This will give me three Lee presses. The Classic Cast, the Classic Turret and the LoadMaster.

February 19, 2008, 03:58 PM	#1
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	What's faster/more reliable? Lee auto prime or safety prime? I'm going to be buying a Lee Classic Cast press. What is my better option for priming my casings? The hand held auto prime tool or the press-mounted safety prime system? Also, should I remove the old primers before tumbling the brass? There seems to be two ways to do it. One would be to put the brass through the decapping/resizing die and then tumble, and the other would be to buy the stand-alone decapping die to remove the old primers without resizing the brass before tumbling. Which would be the better option?

February 19, 2008, 07:19 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,757	Add another vote for tumbling before resizing. Not only does the tumbler never clean out primer pockets, but that media does get stuck in the holes. And you'll find out the hard way how incredibly strong those little pieces of corn or walnut are when it displaces (Lee) or breaks (others) your decapping pin on the sizing die. Also, tumbling first gives you clean brass to put through your sizing die rather than dirty brass. I would likely re-think this train of thought if the tumbler would actually clean those damn primer pockets, but it doesn't, as much as I wish it did. As for priming, I prefer the press mounted safety prime because you don't need to buy the little shell holder set for the priming tool--it uses standard shell holders. I've primed thousands of cases with Federal, Winchester and CCI primers and I've never detonated a primer at the bench. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 19, 2008, 07:24 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,757	Hell, noticed the subject line and realized I never answered the question: Press-mounted safety prime--It won't wear out, but takes longer to set up because you have to screw a die in to the press. This is not a long, drawn out operation but it's not as quick as grabbing the auto prime from a drawer. The hand-held auto prime is quicker as there's no set up, but they do wear out. Most folks get years of use out of them, but they do wear them out. Many guys keep two of them in their tool box in case they snap one, they have a backup until they can replace it. With the auto-prime, you can prime cases while sitting in front of the TV if you like and you can't do that with a press-mounted tool. But IMO, those damn primers are explosive and it's not something I really want to do with the kids crawling all over and the TV blaring and a bowl of chips sitting in front of me, so that's not a selling point. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 20, 2008, 07:46 PM	#9
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Lee Auto-Prime... Dave in PA--I've used the Lee Auto-Prime handheld tools for many years, and like them a lot. You get an XLNT feel for the primer going into the pocket with the Lee tool. Yes, they do wear out after thousands of rounds. But any machine will eventually die. Pot metal wears out easier than steel. I've broken the body of one, just below the shell-holder-holder collar, and the thumb lever of one. Called Lee. They said "Send 'em back and we'll replace 'em." And they were as good as their word. Now I keep 2 on hand, one set up for large primers and one set up for small. So I have a backup if one of 'em dies. If Lee made an all-steel Auto-Prime I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Bottom Line: The Auto-Prime works as advertised, and Lee stands behind their product. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

February 19, 2008, 04:06 PM	#2
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Dave: I tumble my brass before starting any reloading operations at all, with the spent primer still in the case. If I am reloading a case that requires case lube during the resizing process, I will tumble again after sizing/decapping to remove the lube. For cartridges that I have a carbide sizer die, I will not tumble a second time. I've found that tumbling doesn't really help at all in regards to cleaning the primer pocket or flash hole... it is more likely to leave pieces of media as an obstruction in the flash hole than it is to actually clean anything. I use either a Lee primer pocket cleaner or an EJS primer pocket reamer to clean out the detritus in the pocket if necessary.

February 19, 2008, 05:09 PM	#3
scsov509 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 819	Same here, tumble first and then size/deprime. Tumbling after the fact just means you'll have to clean out the flash holes. I like Lee Auto-Prime or similar tools for single stage loading because it's quick and I don't necessarily have to sit at my press to do it. Of course one of the nice things about the Safety Prime is that you don't have to worry about using a softer primer, where as this is supposed to be more of a concern with the Auto-Prime. Doesn't matter to me though because I pretty much only use CCI and Winchester primers for the stuff I load.

February 20, 2008, 12:07 AM	#6
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Sevens, I did it too. Re: safety prime or auto prime. I'm on my second auto prime. The first one had the zamack/pot metal thumb lever snap off, and the second one is starting to show just a hint of bend in it. I've probably run about 20K primers through the combination of both of them. You can buy spare thumb levers from Midway, no reason to own a whole extra autoprime. I found that out after the fact. I have an RCBS Rockchucker, and I'm not familiar with the safety prime product... I've seen it on the website, but never seen one in person. I find that the autoprime tool will fail to fully seat a large rifle primer at times. I also sometimes get high pistol primers that bind up my revolver. I think it's too tight a primer pocket on the part of my brass; I'm not using milsurp brass when this happens though (predominantly Federal, but some Winchester and Remington in there too, all segregated by headstamp and age in lots). CCI tends to be "tighter" than Winchester primers, too. As a result, I favor Winchester primers for my large pistol loads since they load easier. For large rifle loads where I must use CCI #34 primers, I do my "initial" seating with the autoprime and use the basic priming feature of my Rockchucker to fully seat the primer to avoid high primer / slamfire potential in my M1A. There isn't enough leverage (and/or reinforcement on the lever) in the little autoprime to accomplish the job, it seems to me. I have chosen to augment its leverage using my own method. If you're a "progressive" kind of guy, you might think differently. I mostly favor single stage loading, but I'm thinking about progressive presses this year for pistol loading... I don't know if I'd ever trust a progressive (or myself on a progressive) for rifle loads though. I tried the RCBS equivalent of the autoprime; it was a piece of junk. Changing shell plates on it was a major pain the the rear, the priming stroke was done "from the side" rather than squeezing "down" like the autoprime and had less leverage. Mine had a nasty hitch in the priming stroke that was outright painful to listen too and made me flinch for an impending explosion from the primer each time, but it was just plastic rubbing on plastic. Feeding primers from the tray also sucked since the orientation of the thing was all off. Poorly designed tool all around. Hope this long-winded series of anecdotes helps.

February 20, 2008, 02:47 AM	#7
cheezhed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Posts: 302	I use a rcbs hand primer tool . i have not primed in the press for more than 30 years i have had lee primer tools and have worn them out but i like them better as far as feel goes. the rcbs is just a little to big for my hands. when i prime i run my finger over the seated primer to feel if it is slightly below flush. i can do this quite rapidly and makes certain that i have no high primers.

February 20, 2008, 12:40 PM	#8
DaveInGA Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 132	Dave you asked about the Lee Safety Prime, this tool, which I'll call number 1 for the sake of discussion: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...630&t=11082005 and the Lee Auto Prime, which is this tool, which I'll call number 2: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...875&t=11082005 or possibly this tool, the Lee Auto Prime 2, which I'll call number 3: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...149&t=11082005 I have tool number 1 and tool number 2 labelled above. I do not have tool number 3, but have experience with it. I'll try to answer your questions. Tool number 1,the Lee Safety Prime, is designed to operate on the press and is an excellent primer system. It allows one to not handle the primers, while using the lever prime (primer install tool) that came with your press to install the primer. You'll have to line it up (not hard to do) when mounting it, but it's simple to use and effective. All you have to do is use a thumb to "click" a primer into the Lever Prime (The Lever Prime comes in the box with both the Lee Classic Turret and Lee Classic Cast single stage presses.) at the top of the Ram's travel during operation, then lower the Ram and "seat" the primer into the case. This device allows one to semi-automate the the priming process and is the preferred priming method when using a Lee Classic Turret press. It works on the Lee Classic cast single stage as well. Tool number 2, the Lee handheld Auto Prime, is also an excellent tool. It gives a very good feel for seating primers off of the press. I have one for large primers and one for small primers. It's simple to use and provides good feel when seating primers in a case. For single stage, it's the preferred tool for "batch" loading to get maximum efficiency out of a single stage, such as the Lee Classic Cast single stage. It does, however, require the use of shellholders, but a set of these is inexpensive. Here's a link to the shellholder kit, other sizes not in the kit can be bought individually: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...058&t=11082005 Finally, there is tool number 3, the Lee Auto Prime 2 press mounted tool. This tool is a press mounted tool. I personally do not consider it as good as tools number 1 and 2 above, as it tends to be finicky from my experiences and the experiences of friends of mine. I do not recommend this tool. Others may disagree. Here's Lee's explanation of the three tools above: http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/.../primtool.html Were I you, if I were wanting to prime for the Lee Classic Turret press, I would buy the Lee Safety prime in large and small primer setup. If I were buying for a Lee Classic Cast single stage, I would get two of the Lee Auto prime handhelds and a set of the Lee shellholders and any singles I needed. I would not buy the Lee Auto Prime 2 press mounted tool. Just my .02, Dave

February 20, 2008, 08:38 PM	#10
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	The Lee safety prime is relatively now so the reliability is unknown. a problem I have seen with the autoprime is people don't read the directions and don't lube it properly. it will assuredly extend it's life. I clean and lube mine about annually. as to speed as the safety prime is used as a part of the reloading process on the press the time spend will be less as the use of the autoprime is an off line device. I suppose if you were to use the safety prime to do off line priming the speed difference wouldn't be measurable to any degree. I will be setting up a Classic Turret with the safety prime is a couple of weeks. as the press is on order with my local dealer and I just missed is last scheduled delivery. This will give me three Lee presses. The Classic Cast, the Classic Turret and the LoadMaster.