help 9mm luger - Page 2

Gerry · September 8, 2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

A couple days later I pulled them and all bullets where swaged down to .353/.354 at the base and kind of tapered up towards the tip.

9mm factory is tapered on the "outside". In other words, the case diameter as measured externally grows smaller from the web to the mouth ... until it's first firing of course. At firing the brass will take the shape of the chamber it was fired in, whatever shape that is. Once you put the case through a resizing die, it is perfectly straight and (hopefully) has a smaller inside diameter than your bullet.

I have yet to experience any swagging from seating bullets up to .3575" with a 5-5-90 alloy in the dozen or so brands of cases I use in mixed range brass. I honestly suspect your problem is that your seating die also has some crimping function, even if you also crimp in another station (Lee owner's beware!). Your description of how it's more swagged toward the front tells me this. This is one reason I use a Redding Competition Seating Die, plus I find the micrometer adjustment so convenient.

dunerjeff · September 8, 2012, 03:45 PM

I don't use Lee dies, plus the the bullets were smaller at the base and tapered back toward .357 as you got toward the nose. They were getting swaged by the brass. Period. When I made my expander bigger and longer the swaging quit, I changed nothing else.
Many others I've heard talking about this also.It depends on how much neck tension the brass put on the bullets. The deeper the bullet have to be seated the easier it is to swage the bullets. 9mm brass is tapered on the inside(as well as the outside) as well as many other cal. but being taller they don't generally have as much tension. Some brands don't being thinner (I was using Win), but others have a thicker wall.

Gerry · September 8, 2012, 04:19 PM

dunerjeff, which seating die do you use then?

As I said it's never happened to me, nor anyone else I know. Obviously reloading would not be feasible if our bullets were swagged several thousandths of an inch smaller simply by seating them. We casters especially go to great lengths to find the right size bullet after having our barrels slugged.

I'm also not sure what you mean about being tapered inside. Perhaps you can explain using the SAAMI spec as reference?

I've been reloading and casting 9mm for a long time, but I'm still learning new things from time-to-time. Like what is this expander you speak of? The only "expander" I have experience with in the context of reloading are powder-through dies that only bell out the top couple millimeters of the case mouth so that you can stick a bullet on there and it stays in place. Generally the less mouth expansion the better, so long as you aren't shaving lead as they're seated. I hardly add much bell to my case mouths since I use beveled bullets (lyman #356637). This is why I don't need to remove the bell after with a taper crimp

dunerjeff · September 8, 2012, 05:08 PM

The specs you provided don't show the I.D. Take a 45 acp(it is bigger and easier to see) and cut it in half(or do it to a 9)lengthwise, you will see how thick the wall gets farther down and it goes to a radius into the web.On the 9 that thicker part is closer to the top. As I said it "can"(not all brands,and alloy depending) cause swaging, I checked on my tougher cases with 147grlfp bhn 13-14ish.They were smaller at the base. I make my own PTX's that are longer than the Hornady so they go down another.05 deeper to stop it. I have just a slight flare on top to just so bell enough as you say to not shave lead. I am not trying to bs you or anybody,its just what I found on those bullets that wanted to lead when others didn't. This cured it.

WESHOOT2 · September 9, 2012, 09:07 AM

How do they shoot?

dacaur · September 9, 2012, 01:24 PM

Geez guys, this thread is a heated discussion about a complete non-issue. The OP has yet to post back if the bullets actualy drop into the chamber without a problem, which I am betting they will. The "9mm reloading bulge" is something that every beginning reloader sees and wonders about, and of course, its perfectly normal. If it wont drop into your chamber, THEN you have a problem, but I doubt thats the case here.....

most of my 9mm reloads have the bulge, some worse than others, and some dont have it at all, but ALL of them chamber and shoot fine....

September 8, 2012, 03:45 PM	#27
dunerjeff Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 440	I don't use Lee dies, plus the the bullets were smaller at the base and tapered back toward .357 as you got toward the nose. They were getting swaged by the brass. Period. When I made my expander bigger and longer the swaging quit, I changed nothing else. Many others I've heard talking about this also.It depends on how much neck tension the brass put on the bullets. The deeper the bullet have to be seated the easier it is to swage the bullets. 9mm brass is tapered on the inside(as well as the outside) as well as many other cal. but being taller they don't generally have as much tension. Some brands don't being thinner (I was using Win), but others have a thicker wall. __________________ sent via telegram

September 8, 2012, 04:19 PM	#28
Gerry Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 382	dunerjeff, which seating die do you use then? As I said it's never happened to me, nor anyone else I know. Obviously reloading would not be feasible if our bullets were swagged several thousandths of an inch smaller simply by seating them. We casters especially go to great lengths to find the right size bullet after having our barrels slugged. I'm also not sure what you mean about being tapered inside. Perhaps you can explain using the SAAMI spec as reference? I've been reloading and casting 9mm for a long time, but I'm still learning new things from time-to-time. Like what is this expander you speak of? The only "expander" I have experience with in the context of reloading are powder-through dies that only bell out the top couple millimeters of the case mouth so that you can stick a bullet on there and it stays in place. Generally the less mouth expansion the better, so long as you aren't shaving lead as they're seated. I hardly add much bell to my case mouths since I use beveled bullets (lyman #356637). This is why I don't need to remove the bell after with a taper crimp Last edited by Gerry; September 8, 2012 at 05:05 PM.

September 8, 2012, 05:08 PM	#29
dunerjeff Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 440	The specs you provided don't show the I.D. Take a 45 acp(it is bigger and easier to see) and cut it in half(or do it to a 9)lengthwise, you will see how thick the wall gets farther down and it goes to a radius into the web.On the 9 that thicker part is closer to the top. As I said it "can"(not all brands,and alloy depending) cause swaging, I checked on my tougher cases with 147grlfp bhn 13-14ish.They were smaller at the base. I make my own PTX's that are longer than the Hornady so they go down another.05 deeper to stop it. I have just a slight flare on top to just so bell enough as you say to not shave lead. I am not trying to bs you or anybody,its just what I found on those bullets that wanted to lead when others didn't. This cured it. __________________ sent via telegram

September 9, 2012, 09:07 AM	#30
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	so..... How do they shoot? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 9, 2012, 01:24 PM	#31
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Geez guys, this thread is a heated discussion about a complete non-issue. The OP has yet to post back if the bullets actualy drop into the chamber without a problem, which I am betting they will. The "9mm reloading bulge" is something that every beginning reloader sees and wonders about, and of course, its perfectly normal. If it wont drop into your chamber, THEN you have a problem, but I doubt thats the case here..... most of my 9mm reloads have the bulge, some worse than others, and some dont have it at all, but ALL of them chamber and shoot fine....