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Old January 26, 2020, 09:50 PM   #1
FrankenMauser
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Surprise!

This muzzle loader has been a headache for the owner for a while.
I recently asked him if I could try my hand at removing a mystery bore obstruction. He obliged and even delivered the rifle to my location while I was in his area.

I was not prepared for what I found.

(The damage to the hook and plug screw was not me, for the record.)

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File Type: jpg Lyman_Breech0_800.jpg (131.1 KB, 557 views)
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:52 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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Wait for it...


.



.



.



.



.






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File Type: jpg Lyman_Breech1_800.jpg (115.6 KB, 546 views)
File Type: jpg Lyman_Breech2_800.jpg (146.9 KB, 541 views)
File Type: jpg Lyman_Breech3_800.jpg (106.1 KB, 547 views)
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:55 PM   #3
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See ---- some people shouldn't own guns -- LOL
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:56 PM   #4
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Always check....... We should have placed bets on what it was.
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Old January 26, 2020, 10:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
See ---- some people shouldn't own guns -- LOL
Yup, my 6 year old is one of them.

Rifle is mine, Frankenmauser was kind enough to post the pics for me.

Discovered the bore obstruction about a year ago. Put in for a muzzle loader deer tag, wanted to take the rifle out, see where it was hitting since I hadn’t fired it in at least 2-3 years. Pulled it out of the safe, decided to run a couple patches down the bore before i shot it. Ram rod didn’t seem to go as far into the barrel as I remembered, and sounded like it was hitting something besides the breach. Grabbed a light, and could make out what seemed to be a roundball (bore was a bit nasty from sitting, and it was hard to really get light down the bore, while still being able to see down it). As I said, it’s been a while since I’d had this rifle out shooting, but I’d never leave it charged like that.

Weird.

So, out comes the stuck ball remover. Damn thing wouldn’t bite into the ball. Tried several times, just couldn’t get it to work. Sprayed some penetrating oil down the bore, ran a couple more patches down to clean out the dust and nastiness from sitting. With the flashlight, I could make out, I thought, what liked to be a case head. What the hell? Couldn’t be. But, damn sure looked like it. Had a couple other people look at it, and it looked like a case head to them too.

Tried penetrating oil from both ends, hitting it with compressed air at home and at work, dead blow, 5lb sledge and a block of wood, everything I could think of to try and budge it. No luck for me. I was in the middle of closing on a house at this point, with most of my tools packed up, and nowhere to really work on it. So, it got pretty much written off and put in the back of the safe until A conversation with Frankenmauser a few days ago ended with him offering to have a go at it.

Pretty sure my 6 year slipped it in there, either while I was getting guns out, or putting them back after a shooting trip, while my back was turned grabbing another gun. But, I honestly have no idea how it got there, or how long it had been there before I found it.

It could also have been my fault for keeping some loose ammo on the shelf above this rifle in the safe. Defensive/hunting ammo gets unloaded, and set in the shelf when I take the guns out target shooting. Usually just some 9mm, or .38 Special, but every now and then some rifle ammo that was left it the ammo loops on a couple of the slings I use, or that I find in the pockets of my clothes/shooting bag. It is possible I bumped the ammo, and it rolled off in just the right spot, and just the right angle, and ended up in the bore, but that seems just a little to far fetched.
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Old January 26, 2020, 10:43 PM   #6
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Looks like the primer took a beating from the ramrod without going off. Lucky. It could have been a disaster.
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Old January 26, 2020, 11:08 PM   #7
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Looks like the primer took a beating from the ramrod without going off. Lucky. It could have been a disaster.
Thats the truth. Very lucky I didn’t set it off with my face 1’ away.
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Old January 26, 2020, 11:24 PM   #8
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Years ago I loaned my Thompson Center B/P to my oldest kid -- after I got it back & went to clean it & I found this ----- no powder --

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Old January 26, 2020, 11:40 PM   #9
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"It could have been a disaster."

To say the least! It could have been a disaster for you or FrankenMauser (or both if you were watching him operate). That's scary just looking at the image of the primer.
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Old January 27, 2020, 12:33 AM   #10
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wow!

Honestly, I don't see how the ball puller DIDN'T set it off. The only time I've pulled a ball, (actually a Maxi), I used a small plastic mallet to help start the threads to bite.

Yikes!
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Old January 27, 2020, 08:09 AM   #11
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If you had made us guess, even multiple choice, I think a live round of 358 would have been the last thing expected.
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Old January 27, 2020, 04:33 PM   #12
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That must be one of those new-fangled muzzle loaders that use smokeless powder!

Good thing you pulled the breech plug instead of trying the ball puller.
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Old January 27, 2020, 06:34 PM   #13
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There was no powder behind it --- my kids a idiot -- LOL
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Old January 27, 2020, 07:23 PM   #14
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If it had been anything but a 35 caliber, Mauser/'06 family base diameter rifle cartridge, I don't think it would have gotten stuck at all.
The chamfer on the breech plug, combined with the longer rifle case and bore diameter, just happens to be perfect for a .35 caliber to go straight down the bore and wedge itself neatly in the hole.

It was wedged. I was not holding the cartridge in place in that second photo.
I'd estimate that about 30-35 pounds of force, and a little wiggling, was required to get the bullet out of the breech plug.


Quote:
Good thing you pulled the breech plug instead of trying the ball puller.
I knew that attempts had been made, without any hint of a ball puller biting. And, I knew that multiple people believed they could see a case head way down in that dark bore, soon after the obstruction was discovered. (I couldn't see anything definitive by the time it came to me. The case head was too dark.)
Ownership, usage, and storage factors meant odds were in favor of it being an empty .45 Auto, if there was a case in there. But I wasn't going to take any risks.

I went straight for the back door. -Which looks like someone else had a go at it first.
(I'm glad I did.)
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Old January 27, 2020, 07:42 PM   #15
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Excellent work; FrankenMauser

In our M/L classes, we have a section called Murhy's-Law or "what can possibly go wrong". Besides mentioning DryBalling we have "Stuck anything". Have to admit that this one takes the prize. The strangest thing I have cleared, was candy and bubblegum. ……

I have never had trouble, using a Screw-Jag and in this case, I wouldn't be replying to this post. ……..

Recently I bought a bore scope in order to see what's in the main chamber bell.

Excellent work; FrankenMauser

Be Safe
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Old January 27, 2020, 10:35 PM   #16
rickyrick
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Off topic but along the same lines. I carried a 9mm inside the waistband for a long time, I went a few months without checking it maybe, a bit neglectful on my part... but anyways, one day I decided to clean it and I found a Full zip-tie doubled over inside the barrel.
I have no idea how it got there, but I use zip-ties on a daily basis for several years.

I check my barrel every day now.
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Old January 27, 2020, 10:41 PM   #17
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and..........

You aren't the first to encounter that problem (zip tie). That is exactly how the phrase ....."zip gun" originated.
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Old January 28, 2020, 03:00 AM   #18
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That is exactly how the phrase ....."zip gun" originated.
I rather doubt that.

Ever see a 1950/60s car with a wire coathanger for a radio antenna? One of he sections of the multi sectional telescoping radio antennas on several 50s and 60s cars was a perfect "barrel" for a .22 zip gun.

Online Mirriam Webster says first use of the term "zip gun" as a crude homemade pistol was 1950. Wiki says zip ties were invented in 1958 (and were metal)

So I rather doubt they were called zip guns because people found zip ties in the barrel. If you were being sarcastic or tongue in cheek humorous, I missed it.

That's what we have the smilies for,
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Old January 28, 2020, 11:36 AM   #19
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Just another doubter

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I rather doubt that.
Me too and this is getting off the subject but in my "Adventurous" youth, we use we use to make these and I don't think Zip-Ties, were available or applicable. ..

Check your bores and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old January 28, 2020, 05:21 PM   #20
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Your third photo in sequence is terrifying. Mein Gott.
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Old January 28, 2020, 05:36 PM   #21
7.62 man
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A good trick to knowing if your muzzleloader is loaded or unloaded is by marking a line on your ram rod for loaded & it should go all the way in if it is unloaded. You can also use it to know it it is over loaded or if an obstruction is in the barrel, if it won't go in to the loaded line.
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Old January 28, 2020, 11:20 PM   #22
bamaranger
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zip ties

Yes, that was an obviously failed attempt at humor. So, smiley's from now on it is.........
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Old January 29, 2020, 04:09 AM   #23
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I used to have an 1865 Maynard rifle that had been passed down through my family. It always looked like it had a firing pin in the percussion nipple. I wasn't allowed to fiddle with it when it was mine. Anyway it turned out to have a finishing nail crammed in there with a few slivers of wood.

I'd like to have some personal time with the person that stole that rifle...

Tony
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Old January 30, 2020, 02:27 PM   #24
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There are cheap versions of Android and PC Endoscopic cameras (lighted) available that would have done an excellent job in this situation. hth
Best,
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https://joyofandroid.com/endoscope-for-android/
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Old January 30, 2020, 08:56 PM   #25
FrankenMauser
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I have several.
Crankylove did not.
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