hunting with match king? - Page 2

TheNatureBoy · July 1, 2011, 12:57 PM

If I was in a pinch and all I had was a matchking bullet I would use it. Otherwise I would use a hunting bullet for reasons we all understand.

LSnSC · July 2, 2011, 08:14 AM

I shoot a lot of deer on nuisance permits. Usually several dozen a year, in addition to what I shoot during the regular season. Its not hunting since the point is to stop damage, but it is a good chance to see what differnt bullets will do. I can tell you for a fact that 30 cal 168 Match kings and A max's will kill the snot out of a mature whitetail doe out to 4-500 yds. Out to about 250-300 we get complete penetrataion on broadside shots. Are they what I would hunt with if only hunted a few days a year and maybe had to take a hard raking shot on a the only deer I saw and was about to wet myself from the excitement? NO! Will they kill a deer with careful shot placement and a cool head? ABSOLUTELY! TIFWIW, the above is based on my first hand experience.

PawPaw · July 2, 2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSnSC

I shoot a lot of deer on nuisance permits. Usually several dozen a year, in addition to what I shoot during the regular season. Its not hunting since the point is to stop damage, but it is a good chance to see what differnt bullets will do.

I'm not doubting it one bit. A 160-ish bullet at 2700 is going to leave a mark when it hits meat.

My question, though, is how does one get a job like that?

Sarge · July 2, 2011, 09:05 AM

I've known guys who used SMK's in their .243, 7 Mags and .308/30-06 deer rifles, for over 25 years. They are invariably accuracy buffs who didn't want to fiddle with re-zeroing for what was then a 10-14 day season.

They believe, quite correctly, that a perfectly placed shot trumps a not-quite perfect hunting bullet- and a perfectly hit deer with the SMK results in meat on the ground a short distance away. Expansion is not as consistent as with a purpose-built hunting bullet, but the deer don't seem to mind.

Just FWIW I have found plain-jane Nosler BT's, of a similar weight, to shoot real close to SMK zero in my equally plain-jane hunting rifles. Still, I zero carefully for whatever I'm hunting with.

LSnSC · July 2, 2011, 09:13 AM

Paw Paw,
Its easy. Get family and friends plant a few thousand acres of beans and cotton, then watch the deer eat your profits. Call the DNR and take them on a tour of the damage. Once the temps get to 90+ with 90+percent hunmidity, the fun wears off pretty quick.

Sarge,
Your spot on with the NBT's. 165 and 168 's shoot pretty darned close. Ive just got a couple thousand SMK's I won in a charity acution.

T. O'Heir · July 2, 2011, 12:41 PM

"...to make a FMJ expand was to take a knife and put a +..." That doesn't work either. Expansion is about the jacket. Milsurp jackets are thick and are not designed to expand even if 'Bullet Bubba' tries to get 'em to expand.
Most of Sierra's bullets are very close to match grade. Use a Gameking or Pro-hunter.

Jason_G · July 24, 2011, 09:28 AM

Hunting with SMKs?

I wouldn't.

Here's a steel plate I shot with a .308 168 gr SMK.

It put a .30 caliber hole through the steel plate, and still didn't expand. Not like a hunting bullet. Kind of tore apart the jacket, but it was not the controlled expansion you see in a hunting bullet. I think a hunting bullet like a soft point would have mushroomed on the plate before going through, or splattered.
It might would be a good round for punching through tough hogs with good shot placement, but it's not what I load my mags with when I go hunting. Honestly, I use the cheap and ever ubiquitous standby that a lot of others use for hunting deer: Remington Core Lokt softpoints. They won't make as tight of a group as those SMKs, but the average ballistics shouldn't be that far apart out of most rifles. Not enough to matter when hunting within what I would consider to be ethical distances.

Jason

PawPaw · July 24, 2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason_G

It put a .30 caliber hole through the steel plate, and still didn't expand. Not like a hunting bullet. Kind of tore apart the jacket, but it was not the controlled expansion you see in a hunting bullet. I think a hunting bullet like a soft point would have mushroomed on the plate before going through, or splattered.

When you're shooting steel, it doesn't matter. We were shooting steel last week with a variety of SMKs, NBTs, Core-locts and Gamekings from .308s, -06s, and 7mmRemMags. Shooting A500 steel at 300 yards. They all splattered. Every one of them.

Jason_G · July 24, 2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

When you're shooting steel, it doesn't matter. We were shooting steel last week with a variety of SMKs, NBTs, Core-locts and Gamekings from .308s, -06s, and 7mmRemMags. Shooting A500 steel at 300 yards. They all splattered. Every one of them.

That's what I'm saying though, for me, the SMK's didn't splatter like a soft point would, they punched through, which would lead me to believe they wouldn't expand much if any in an animal. Now the steel I was shooting was an old .22 silhouette, I think 5/16ths, if the steel was thicker they probably would've splattered.

Jason

LSnSC · July 24, 2011, 06:23 PM

They expand violently. I get silver dollar sized exits on deer and lots of fragmentation. Its hard to tell from the pics, but that looks like pretty thin plate. I'm not advocating them as hunting bullet, but saying they wont work is simply not true. Ive shot enough game with them to know otherwise.

GeauxTide · July 24, 2011, 07:37 PM

Match bullets are for paper. Use game bullets for game.

Outlaw81 · July 24, 2011, 09:45 PM

I've always had good luck with match kings on whitetails. Especially from a. 243. Hydrostatic shock will play more of a part the closer u get to 3k f/s in any caliber. Just make sure its legal in ur state first.

Jason_G · July 25, 2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

I'm not advocating them as hunting bullet, but saying they wont work is simply not true. Ive shot enough game with them to know otherwise.

Oh I have no doubt that it would work, so would FMJ, if you placed a perfect shot, I just wouldn't think they'd be ideal.

I kind of agree with Geaux Tigers- eh, uh, Geaux Tide (

), that the match bullets belong on paper, and hunting rounds on deer. Sounds like you do too.

Jason

mete · July 25, 2011, 06:47 AM

Match King "hollow point" - an ideal match bullet would have a long sharply pointed tip for a high ballistic co-efficient .But bullets with such a point are not practical as the point is difficult to make and easily damaged .They found that little is lost in BC with a small hollow point ,but the hollow point is easier to make and not easily damaged . The hollow point is NOT designed for expansion and is not suitable for hunting - that's why they make the Game King !!

mavracer · July 25, 2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

I'm not advocating them as hunting bullet, but saying they wont work is simply not true. Ive shot enough game with them to know otherwise.

You can eat salsa with your fingers, it's just civilized to use a chip.
And just because matchkings works sometimes doesn't make it an ethical practice.

Art Eatman · July 25, 2011, 08:42 AM

Seems to me that the deal is the reliability for what we call ethical, clean kills by millions of hunters, rather than the occasional positive results of a few.

Sure, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. Every now and then somebody does well in a Las Vegas casino. Bad odds for steady supplies of food and money, though.

Outlaw81 · July 25, 2011, 05:22 PM

And what about Berger vld hunting bullets? They are the same as smks. It seems to me that rather than taking a shot from a blind from 300yds away and worrying about the bullet doin its job, some hunters may need to worry bout getting closer to their prey and making the shot count. The only reason there are expanding bullets is so the average Joe can take a shot at distance and still make an animal bleed to death. I've killed more than my share of whitetails over the years and 99.9% of the time they have dropped with a target bullet. I will say that I have had a couple run bout 100yds before falling but that was my fault. Hunters who seem to.have a problem bringing down deer should really.study the kill zone a lil better.

LSnSC · July 25, 2011, 06:03 PM

Ive shot 19 deer since June on depredation permits. Time permitting Ill kill a few more before the permits run out Aug 1st. All with 168 gr SMK's , all one shot kills. None went more than a few steps. Thats been my firsthand experience with them. Have any of you nay sayers personally had a failure with one? Or are you just repeating what you've read in the gunrags and on the internet?

Art Eatman · July 25, 2011, 07:54 PM

LSnSC, I generally figure that the average hunter probably needs all the help he can get. And I mostly go by what the manufacturers say about how much expansion is typical of their bullets. Seems to me that if a bullet opens up on entry, it's gonna do more internal damage, destroy more tissue, rupture more blood vessels.

I started running the brush and messing with rifles about seventy years ago. I have a higher standard to which I hold myself than I would for relative newbies. I've watched a fair number of those folks make marginal hits where if the bullet didn't open up the deer would have been lost. OTOH, I'm halfway proud of never needing a second shot except for a couple of coup de grace shots on deer that were lying where they were hit. Dead, but just didn't yet know it.

So I dunno. I just figure that if Bambi's neck is broken, or there's a big double-handful of mush where the heart/lungs used to be, I'm gonna eat deer meat.

Easy to go the other direction. Sierra's 165-grain HPBT at a muzzle velocity above 3,000 is not the item for a deer or coyote inside of 50 yards unless you enjoy playing with hand grenades.

July 2, 2011, 09:05 AM	#29
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I've known guys who used SMK's in their .243, 7 Mags and .308/30-06 deer rifles, for over 25 years. They are invariably accuracy buffs who didn't want to fiddle with re-zeroing for what was then a 10-14 day season. They believe, quite correctly, that a perfectly placed shot trumps a not-quite perfect hunting bullet- and a perfectly hit deer with the SMK results in meat on the ground a short distance away. Expansion is not as consistent as with a purpose-built hunting bullet, but the deer don't seem to mind. Just FWIW I have found plain-jane Nosler BT's, of a similar weight, to shoot real close to SMK zero in my equally plain-jane hunting rifles. Still, I zero carefully for whatever I'm hunting with. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

July 2, 2011, 12:41 PM	#31
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...to make a FMJ expand was to take a knife and put a +..." That doesn't work either. Expansion is about the jacket. Milsurp jackets are thick and are not designed to expand even if 'Bullet Bubba' tries to get 'em to expand. Most of Sierra's bullets are very close to match grade. Use a Gameking or Pro-hunter. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 24, 2011, 09:28 AM	#32
Jason_G Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,902	Hunting with SMKs? I wouldn't. Here's a steel plate I shot with a .308 168 gr SMK. It put a .30 caliber hole through the steel plate, and still didn't expand. Not like a hunting bullet. Kind of tore apart the jacket, but it was not the controlled expansion you see in a hunting bullet. I think a hunting bullet like a soft point would have mushroomed on the plate before going through, or splattered. It might would be a good round for punching through tough hogs with good shot placement, but it's not what I load my mags with when I go hunting. Honestly, I use the cheap and ever ubiquitous standby that a lot of others use for hunting deer: Remington Core Lokt softpoints. They won't make as tight of a group as those SMKs, but the average ballistics shouldn't be that far apart out of most rifles. Not enough to matter when hunting within what I would consider to be ethical distances. Jason __________________ "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." -Amendment II, Constitution of the United States of America

July 24, 2011, 09:45 PM	#37
Outlaw81 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2011 Location: Southeast OK Posts: 114	I've always had good luck with match kings on whitetails. Especially from a. 243. Hydrostatic shock will play more of a part the closer u get to 3k f/s in any caliber. Just make sure its legal in ur state first. __________________ Don't Run...You'll only die tired. “It was the ultimate hunting trip: a man hunting another man who was hunting me. Don’t talk to me about hunting lions or elephants; they don’t fight back with rifles and scopes!"--Chuck Mawhinney Marines never die...We just go to hell and regroup!!

July 25, 2011, 06:47 AM	#39
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Match King "hollow point" - an ideal match bullet would have a long sharply pointed tip for a high ballistic co-efficient .But bullets with such a point are not practical as the point is difficult to make and easily damaged .They found that little is lost in BC with a small hollow point ,but the hollow point is easier to make and not easily damaged . The hollow point is NOT designed for expansion and is not suitable for hunting - that's why they make the Game King !! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

July 1, 2011, 12:57 PM	#26
TheNatureBoy Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Posts: 1,204	If I was in a pinch and all I had was a matchking bullet I would use it. Otherwise I would use a hunting bullet for reasons we all understand.

July 2, 2011, 08:14 AM	#27
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	I shoot a lot of deer on nuisance permits. Usually several dozen a year, in addition to what I shoot during the regular season. Its not hunting since the point is to stop damage, but it is a good chance to see what differnt bullets will do. I can tell you for a fact that 30 cal 168 Match kings and A max's will kill the snot out of a mature whitetail doe out to 4-500 yds. Out to about 250-300 we get complete penetrataion on broadside shots. Are they what I would hunt with if only hunted a few days a year and maybe had to take a hard raking shot on a the only deer I saw and was about to wet myself from the excitement? NO! Will they kill a deer with careful shot placement and a cool head? ABSOLUTELY! TIFWIW, the above is based on my first hand experience.

July 2, 2011, 09:13 AM	#30
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	Paw Paw, Its easy. Get family and friends plant a few thousand acres of beans and cotton, then watch the deer eat your profits. Call the DNR and take them on a tour of the damage. Once the temps get to 90+ with 90+percent hunmidity, the fun wears off pretty quick. Sarge, Your spot on with the NBT's. 165 and 168 's shoot pretty darned close. Ive just got a couple thousand SMK's I won in a charity acution.

July 24, 2011, 06:23 PM	#35
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	They expand violently. I get silver dollar sized exits on deer and lots of fragmentation. Its hard to tell from the pics, but that looks like pretty thin plate. I'm not advocating them as hunting bullet, but saying they wont work is simply not true. Ive shot enough game with them to know otherwise.

July 24, 2011, 07:37 PM	#36
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Match bullets are for paper. Use game bullets for game.

July 25, 2011, 08:42 AM	#41
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Seems to me that the deal is the reliability for what we call ethical, clean kills by millions of hunters, rather than the occasional positive results of a few. Sure, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. Every now and then somebody does well in a Las Vegas casino. Bad odds for steady supplies of food and money, though.

July 25, 2011, 05:22 PM	#42
Outlaw81 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2011 Location: Southeast OK Posts: 114	And what about Berger vld hunting bullets? They are the same as smks. It seems to me that rather than taking a shot from a blind from 300yds away and worrying about the bullet doin its job, some hunters may need to worry bout getting closer to their prey and making the shot count. The only reason there are expanding bullets is so the average Joe can take a shot at distance and still make an animal bleed to death. I've killed more than my share of whitetails over the years and 99.9% of the time they have dropped with a target bullet. I will say that I have had a couple run bout 100yds before falling but that was my fault. Hunters who seem to.have a problem bringing down deer should really.study the kill zone a lil better. __________________ Don't Run...You'll only die tired. “It was the ultimate hunting trip: a man hunting another man who was hunting me. Don’t talk to me about hunting lions or elephants; they don’t fight back with rifles and scopes!"--Chuck Mawhinney Marines never die...We just go to hell and regroup!! Last edited by Outlaw81; July 25, 2011 at 05:28 PM.

July 25, 2011, 06:03 PM	#43
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	Ive shot 19 deer since June on depredation permits. Time permitting Ill kill a few more before the permits run out Aug 1st. All with 168 gr SMK's , all one shot kills. None went more than a few steps. Thats been my firsthand experience with them. Have any of you nay sayers personally had a failure with one? Or are you just repeating what you've read in the gunrags and on the internet?

July 25, 2011, 07:54 PM	#44
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	LSnSC, I generally figure that the average hunter probably needs all the help he can get. And I mostly go by what the manufacturers say about how much expansion is typical of their bullets. Seems to me that if a bullet opens up on entry, it's gonna do more internal damage, destroy more tissue, rupture more blood vessels. I started running the brush and messing with rifles about seventy years ago. I have a higher standard to which I hold myself than I would for relative newbies. I've watched a fair number of those folks make marginal hits where if the bullet didn't open up the deer would have been lost. OTOH, I'm halfway proud of never needing a second shot except for a couple of coup de grace shots on deer that were lying where they were hit. Dead, but just didn't yet know it. So I dunno. I just figure that if Bambi's neck is broken, or there's a big double-handful of mush where the heart/lungs used to be, I'm gonna eat deer meat. Easy to go the other direction. Sierra's 165-grain HPBT at a muzzle velocity above 3,000 is not the item for a deer or coyote inside of 50 yards unless you enjoy playing with hand grenades.