Purse Snatcher Shooter INDICTED

Double Naught Spy · December 18, 2015, 07:45 AM

In the previous thread, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569553 , the would be heroine was shown to have acted in a poor manner regardling her handling of a pistol around other Good Sams and a purse snatching suspect, and then shooting at the suspect when he broke free. Now she has been indicted for the shooting.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_...3df953fbc.html

It does not appear that she has a concealed handgun license (so maybe has never had any instruction about salient laws relevant to the type of incident in which she was involved). Specifics of the charge are currently sealed...

Quote:

Deadly conduct can be a Class A misdemeanor or a third-degree felony, depending on how it is alleged. That was unclear Wednesday, because the indictment remains sealed.

rickyrick · December 18, 2015, 10:39 AM

Does seem to be deadly conduct to me.

Perhaps she was ignorant of the law, but I have the suspicion that she was more wanting to be the hero at a time when one really wasn't needed. She has fulfilled the stereotype that many of us work to overcome

Kosh75287 · December 18, 2015, 11:09 AM

Yah, kinda saw THAT one coming... Nobody's ends were advanced by her actions, it seems. Now, the anti-CCW flakes have a casus belli, deep in the heart of Texas.

Double Naught Spy · December 18, 2015, 11:29 AM

Maybe, maybe not. As she was NOT a CCW person, the argument is without merit specifically because she would not have have the mandatory legal familiarizaiton with the law and testing of a Texas CHL holder.

kilimanjaro · December 18, 2015, 11:42 AM

Probably won't happen, but a jury could look at this, say 'No one was harmed', and return a Not Guilty verdict in short order for anything except unlicensed carry. Stranger things have happened.

jmhyer · December 18, 2015, 05:10 PM

I doubt this will go to trial. A decent attorney will likely bargain for a guilty plea on a misdemeanor. Hopefully, she gets to retain her gun owning rights and will see the benefits of training and education.

Clock · December 21, 2015, 02:31 PM

There is something I find a little troubling about the video. Due to the article I "know" that the kid was a purse snatcher. Just viewing the video, the kid could be anything, including a victim. He could be an innocent African American Bible student being beaten up by some racist
White guys. My point is that just by looking at the video, it's not clear with 100% certainty that the kid is the bad guy,
It looks to me like she was being irresponsible.
My guess is that unless she has some local political friends, she's going to be fighting an uphill battle. I'd be surprised if she comes out of this being able to own or even handle a gun.

Double Naught Spy · December 21, 2015, 04:16 PM

Clock, I bet you are troubled a lot, huh? Nobody suggested that the video included the original illegal act of purse snatching, so no reason to be troubled by the fact that part of the incident is not shown in the video.

Clock · December 21, 2015, 05:01 PM

"Clock, I bet you are troubled a lot, huh? Nobody suggested that the video included the original illegal act of purse snatching, so no reason to be troubled by the fact that part of the incident is not shown in the video. "

In both threads regarding this incident the term purse snatcher is used. This colors the way we view the event. Based just on the video, I would have some doubt about what was going on. I'll stand on my statement that the shooting seemed irresponsible.

kilimanjaro · December 21, 2015, 05:36 PM

Fortunately, there are witnesses, including a victim, to the crime, so judgment based on the presence or absence of a partial video record is not a valid response.

Double Naught Spy · December 21, 2015, 06:27 PM

Quote:

In both threads regarding this incident the term purse snatcher is used. This colors the way we view the event. Based just on the video, I would have some doubt about what was going on.

Clock, the information was provided by the cops as to the disposition of the purse snatcher. If you have a problem with the justification, take it up with the cops to the media. Again, nobody is claiming the video shows everything that happened BEFORE the apparent illegal discharge of the gun in a non-lethal situation.

Clock · December 22, 2015, 05:39 PM

In the end my observation is unimportant. Her outcome will be decided by a judge and jury.

rpseraph · December 22, 2015, 05:41 PM

If the alleged purse snatcher gave the lady cause to fear for her life... which included him running away... then she might be justified... but I don't see that happening. She got scared, she made a decision and it was the wrong decision. I am not saying that I won't someday have to make a judgement call... but I certainly hope that I am more level-headed!

This lady gave a face to "trigger-happy-gun-toting-untrained-nutjobs" and its very sad.

If my life is threatened, I am going to try to de-escalate, I am going to try to run away, I am going to verbally warn the person threaten me, I am going brandish, and if I feel my life or an "innocent life" near me is going to end... THEN and ONLY THEN would I fire my weapon. This can all happen in fractions of seconds, and we aren't always going think clearly. Training. Practice.

Get a nerf gun and some buddies, run through scenarios and verbally warn each other. Some gun stores have really cool simulators that go through some possible scenarios, forcing you to make split second decisions.

I am a boy scout, being prepared is kind of my thing

johnwilliamson062 · December 22, 2015, 07:32 PM

Assumption the facts area as reported, but given that assumption:
This woman should lose her right to carry a firearm. She should lose her right to OWN a firearm. She has clearly demonstrated she is not responsible enough to handle a firearm. The state should also consider taking her drivers license if she has one.
Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to discharge a firearm at someone who is clearly fleeing without possession of any stolen property should not be carrying a firearm. Anyone who thinks shooting over a persons head, in an commercial building that almost certainly has a roof supported by steel girders, should not be carrying. Where did that bullet end up?

Double Naught Spy · December 22, 2015, 09:25 PM

Well jw, I don't think they are going to change the laws of the state or country to suit this case. She may keep her ability to own firearms if she is prosecuted or pleads to a misdemeanor. They are not going to summarily take away her DL for a non-DL-related incident.

Clock · December 22, 2015, 10:43 PM

"Assumption the facts area as reported, but given that assumption:
This woman should lose her right to carry a firearm. She should lose her right to OWN a firearm. She has clearly demonstrated she is not responsible enough to handle a firearm. The state should also consider taking her drivers license if she has one.
Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to discharge a firearm at someone who is clearly fleeing without possession of any stolen property should not be carrying a firearm. Anyone who thinks shooting over a persons head, in an commercial building that almost certainly has a roof supported by steel girders, should not be carrying. Where did that bullet end up? "

John,
I couldn't agree more. What I find especially galling is that Texas is a "Shall Issue" state when it comes to concealed carry permits and the bar is pretty low, compared to states like Ca, NY or Illinois. If she had bothered to get her permit she would have least heard that such behavior was irresponsible & usually illegal.
I also think that such behavior reflects badly on responsible firearms owners. It will be up to the Judge, but I have no sympathy for her.

rickyrick · December 23, 2015, 12:33 AM

It is not an easy process to get a CHL in Texas. Cost me tons of money and lost time.
Now that I have gone through the process in other states, Texas was the most difficult.
Doesn't matter what the media says about Texas, the state has not been a gun loving place, and CHL in widespread use is a fairly recent advancement.

Not too many years ago you could get into serious hot water.

But her behavior was unacceptable, and illegal.

johnwilliamson062 · December 25, 2015, 02:19 PM

I know it won't summarily be removed, but if all those assumptions are correct the legal system should remove those rights when all is said and done.

Double Naught Spy · December 25, 2015, 03:13 PM

If she is not convicted of breaking a law that would result in the loss of rights, then why should they be removed?

And specifically, what justification would you have for suggesting they should take away her DL, LOL.

Clock · December 25, 2015, 06:13 PM

Using a vehicle to flee a crime or to evade the police can result in the suspension of ones DL in many areas. If discharging a gun in a crowded area, when no ones life is in being threatened is decided to be a criminal act, then, using a vehicle to flee, may also be considered a crime. This would hang on whatever the local statutes are and how the judge/DA views it.

johnwilliamson062 · December 27, 2015, 03:21 PM

Ok, Ok, they shouldn't take her DL. Losing those privileges for a short spell while sitting in jail will suffice. I wouldn't want her behind the wheel of a car in my vicinity though.
If convicted of a third degree felony, she will lose her firearms rights.

Double Naught Spy · December 27, 2015, 04:02 PM

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_...fd41d52ac.html

Well, they have gone with the 3rd degree felony charge, so she may lose her gun rights.

Sorry Clock, there is no related vehicular flight charges involved here. Generally speaking, unless the crime was vehicle-related, I don't know of people losing their DLs in general in Texas.

Clock · December 27, 2015, 06:46 PM

I don't have any vested interest in her losing her DL. Upon Googling the subject it seemed a possibility at least in some areas.
The penalty for a 3rd degree felony in Texas is 2 to 10 years and a fine of up to $10,000. It looks like she might have plenty of time to read laws regarding safe and responsible handling of firearms.

101combatvet · December 27, 2015, 06:56 PM

It looks like she shot in the air as a warning shot. The little coward falls to the ground to duck. Pretty messed up.

Double Naught Spy · December 27, 2015, 09:20 PM

Quote:

I don't have any vested interest in her losing her DL. Upon Googling the subject it seemed a possibility at least in some areas.

Okay, but this event didn't happen in some areas. It happened in Texas. The only law that applies here is Texas law.

December 18, 2015, 10:39 AM	#2
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Does seem to be deadly conduct to me. Perhaps she was ignorant of the law, but I have the suspicion that she was more wanting to be the hero at a time when one really wasn't needed. She has fulfilled the stereotype that many of us work to overcome __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

December 18, 2015, 11:09 AM	#3
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Yah, kinda saw THAT one coming... Nobody's ends were advanced by her actions, it seems. Now, the anti-CCW flakes have a casus belli, deep in the heart of Texas. __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

December 18, 2015, 11:29 AM	#4
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Maybe, maybe not. As she was NOT a CCW person, the argument is without merit specifically because she would not have have the mandatory legal familiarizaiton with the law and testing of a Texas CHL holder. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 21, 2015, 04:16 PM	#8
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Clock, I bet you are troubled a lot, huh? Nobody suggested that the video included the original illegal act of purse snatching, so no reason to be troubled by the fact that part of the incident is not shown in the video. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 22, 2015, 09:25 PM	#15
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Well jw, I don't think they are going to change the laws of the state or country to suit this case. She may keep her ability to own firearms if she is prosecuted or pleads to a misdemeanor. They are not going to summarily take away her DL for a non-DL-related incident. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 18, 2015, 11:42 AM	#5
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Probably won't happen, but a jury could look at this, say 'No one was harmed', and return a Not Guilty verdict in short order for anything except unlicensed carry. Stranger things have happened.

December 18, 2015, 05:10 PM	#6
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	I doubt this will go to trial. A decent attorney will likely bargain for a guilty plea on a misdemeanor. Hopefully, she gets to retain her gun owning rights and will see the benefits of training and education.

December 21, 2015, 02:31 PM	#7
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	There is something I find a little troubling about the video. Due to the article I "know" that the kid was a purse snatcher. Just viewing the video, the kid could be anything, including a victim. He could be an innocent African American Bible student being beaten up by some racist White guys. My point is that just by looking at the video, it's not clear with 100% certainty that the kid is the bad guy, It looks to me like she was being irresponsible. My guess is that unless she has some local political friends, she's going to be fighting an uphill battle. I'd be surprised if she comes out of this being able to own or even handle a gun.

December 21, 2015, 05:01 PM	#9
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	"Clock, I bet you are troubled a lot, huh? Nobody suggested that the video included the original illegal act of purse snatching, so no reason to be troubled by the fact that part of the incident is not shown in the video. " In both threads regarding this incident the term purse snatcher is used. This colors the way we view the event. Based just on the video, I would have some doubt about what was going on. I'll stand on my statement that the shooting seemed irresponsible.

December 21, 2015, 05:36 PM	#10
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Fortunately, there are witnesses, including a victim, to the crime, so judgment based on the presence or absence of a partial video record is not a valid response.

December 22, 2015, 05:39 PM	#12
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	In the end my observation is unimportant. Her outcome will be decided by a judge and jury.

December 22, 2015, 05:41 PM	#13
rpseraph Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2015 Location: MinneSNOWta Posts: 454	If the alleged purse snatcher gave the lady cause to fear for her life... which included him running away... then she might be justified... but I don't see that happening. She got scared, she made a decision and it was the wrong decision. I am not saying that I won't someday have to make a judgement call... but I certainly hope that I am more level-headed! This lady gave a face to "trigger-happy-gun-toting-untrained-nutjobs" and its very sad. If my life is threatened, I am going to try to de-escalate, I am going to try to run away, I am going to verbally warn the person threaten me, I am going brandish, and if I feel my life or an "innocent life" near me is going to end... THEN and ONLY THEN would I fire my weapon. This can all happen in fractions of seconds, and we aren't always going think clearly. Training. Practice. Get a nerf gun and some buddies, run through scenarios and verbally warn each other. Some gun stores have really cool simulators that go through some possible scenarios, forcing you to make split second decisions. I am a boy scout, being prepared is kind of my thing

December 22, 2015, 07:32 PM	#14
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Assumption the facts area as reported, but given that assumption: This woman should lose her right to carry a firearm. She should lose her right to OWN a firearm. She has clearly demonstrated she is not responsible enough to handle a firearm. The state should also consider taking her drivers license if she has one. Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to discharge a firearm at someone who is clearly fleeing without possession of any stolen property should not be carrying a firearm. Anyone who thinks shooting over a persons head, in an commercial building that almost certainly has a roof supported by steel girders, should not be carrying. Where did that bullet end up?

December 22, 2015, 10:43 PM	#16
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	"Assumption the facts area as reported, but given that assumption: This woman should lose her right to carry a firearm. She should lose her right to OWN a firearm. She has clearly demonstrated she is not responsible enough to handle a firearm. The state should also consider taking her drivers license if she has one. Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to discharge a firearm at someone who is clearly fleeing without possession of any stolen property should not be carrying a firearm. Anyone who thinks shooting over a persons head, in an commercial building that almost certainly has a roof supported by steel girders, should not be carrying. Where did that bullet end up? " John, I couldn't agree more. What I find especially galling is that Texas is a "Shall Issue" state when it comes to concealed carry permits and the bar is pretty low, compared to states like Ca, NY or Illinois. If she had bothered to get her permit she would have least heard that such behavior was irresponsible & usually illegal. I also think that such behavior reflects badly on responsible firearms owners. It will be up to the Judge, but I have no sympathy for her.

December 23, 2015, 12:33 AM	#17
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	It is not an easy process to get a CHL in Texas. Cost me tons of money and lost time. Now that I have gone through the process in other states, Texas was the most difficult. Doesn't matter what the media says about Texas, the state has not been a gun loving place, and CHL in widespread use is a fairly recent advancement. Not too many years ago you could get into serious hot water. But her behavior was unacceptable, and illegal. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

December 25, 2015, 02:19 PM	#18
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I know it won't summarily be removed, but if all those assumptions are correct the legal system should remove those rights when all is said and done.

December 25, 2015, 03:13 PM	#19
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	If she is not convicted of breaking a law that would result in the loss of rights, then why should they be removed? And specifically, what justification would you have for suggesting they should take away her DL, LOL. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 25, 2015, 06:13 PM	#20
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	Using a vehicle to flee a crime or to evade the police can result in the suspension of ones DL in many areas. If discharging a gun in a crowded area, when no ones life is in being threatened is decided to be a criminal act, then, using a vehicle to flee, may also be considered a crime. This would hang on whatever the local statutes are and how the judge/DA views it.

December 27, 2015, 03:21 PM	#21
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Ok, Ok, they shouldn't take her DL. Losing those privileges for a short spell while sitting in jail will suffice. I wouldn't want her behind the wheel of a car in my vicinity though. If convicted of a third degree felony, she will lose her firearms rights.

December 27, 2015, 04:02 PM	#22
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_...fd41d52ac.html Well, they have gone with the 3rd degree felony charge, so she may lose her gun rights. Sorry Clock, there is no related vehicular flight charges involved here. Generally speaking, unless the crime was vehicle-related, I don't know of people losing their DLs in general in Texas. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 27, 2015, 06:46 PM	#23
Clock Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 77	I don't have any vested interest in her losing her DL. Upon Googling the subject it seemed a possibility at least in some areas. The penalty for a 3rd degree felony in Texas is 2 to 10 years and a fine of up to $10,000. It looks like she might have plenty of time to read laws regarding safe and responsible handling of firearms.

December 27, 2015, 06:56 PM	#24
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	It looks like she shot in the air as a warning shot. The little coward falls to the ground to duck. Pretty messed up. __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]