Pistol or SBR?

[308Loader]

Looking to get a 10” or shorter 300 BLK barrel for my AR. I need to understand the technicality’s before I pull the trigger on this purchase (pun intended). What are the current rules as far as a pistol goes? Braces are out now? Only option is a smooth wall receiver extension? What are the challenges involved with registering it as an SBR with BATF? If I own other lowers that wear 16” or longer barrels and buttstocks, would having a less than 16” in my collection be an issue without registering one as SBR? Eventually want to add a can to this build, same tax stamp or another $200 for that? Thought I would ask you fine people for insight as I do my own homework on the interwebs. Maybe some of you have gone through this decision making process already.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

[dogtown tom]

308Loader Looking to get a 10” or shorter 300 BLK barrel for my AR.

Is you existing AR a rifle or a pistol?

What are the current rules as far as a pistol goes?

Same as they always have been.

Braces are out now?

No.
ATF does not regulate arm braces. You can add one to any rifle.
If you attach an arm brace to a pistol it is now the making of an SBR.

Only option is a smooth wall receiver extension?

Not part of any regulation.

What are the challenges involved with registering it as an SBR with BATF?

You complete a Form 1, pay $200, wait a few months and after approval you buy that short bbl upper and attach.

If I own other lowers that wear 16” or longer barrels and buttstocks, would having a less than 16” in my collection be an issue without registering one as SBR?

If you have no legal means to use that short barrel, its constructive possession. If you have an existing AR pistol that it can go on you are fine.

Eventually want to add a can to this build, same tax stamp or another $200 for that?

Every NFA firearm requires its own tax stamp.

[raimius]

Dogtown Tom is oversimplifying the brace issue a bit. In short, the ATF came out with a several hundred page explanation of when attaching a brace to a firearm might make it a SBR/SBS. There are multiple lawsuits ongoing over their new interpretation.

If you want to be safe, yes, a straight/round buffer tube on an AR pistol will avoid the brace issue.

If you want to add a stock, you submit a Form 1, money, and documents, wait....wait....wait, then get the approved form with stamp back, then you can add the stock.

As long as you have a compatible pistol lower, owning short uppers is fine (unless the ATF changes decades of interpretation...which they occasionally do, unfortunately)

[dogtown tom]

raimius Dogtown Tom is oversimplifying the brace issue a bit.

I answered his questions. That's not oversimplifying.

In short, the ATF came out with a several hundred page explanation of when attaching a brace to a firearm might make it a SBR/SBS.

Yet I succinctly and correctly answered each of his questions according to what ATF published.

There are multiple lawsuits ongoing over their new interpretation.

Which is irrelevant.

If you want to be safe, yes, a straight/round buffer tube on an AR pistol will avoid the brace issue.

False. NOTHING in the rule says one must, should, or "to be safe" have a "straight/round buffer tube". It does not avoid anything because the buffer tube on an AR pistol is PERFECTLY FINE as it is.

If you want to add a stock, you submit a Form 1, money, and documents, wait....wait....wait, then get the approved form with stamp back, then you can add the stock.

Didn't I write that? Yes I did.

As long as you have a compatible pistol lower, owning short uppers is fine

Wrong.
First, there is no such animal as a "pistol lower" and never has been.
All that is needed is a legal configuration. A lower, a frame, a receiver, a rifle, a shotgun, etc ANY OF which can lawfully be configured with an arm brace and not violate this rule.

I may have oversimplified, but I wasn't wrong in my response either.

[308Loader]

Started a form one Eform. Having a hard time determining my CLEO. Even asked my city police department and they had no idea what I was talking about. Would it be chief of police in my city, or county sheriff? Where do I locate their proper contact information? When do I send them a copy of the form 1 application? how do I estimate the OAL of the completed firearm when I cannot possess the completed upper? Seems like there are some trapdoors in the system that are not spelled out plainly. A person needs to do a lot of digging to do this properly. Does the BATF have a help line for this process? Is there anyone that provides a class or service to help a guy properly complete this form to ensure things are done correctly, lawfully and in the proper order?

[Sharkbite]

If you live inside the city limits..it the police dept (if you have one) outside an incorporated city, use the Sheriff’s office. Some cities use the Sheriffs office to “police” the city. As an example some cities in Los Angeles county dont have their own Police dept and contract with LASD for police services. If you call 911 to report a home burglary, who responds?

As to OAL, i would bet if you describe in detail what you intend to build, ie. barrel length, type of gun (AK, AR, FAL etc), what stock you plan on using. Somebody here has one and can help with length.

[dogtown tom]

308Loader Started a form one Eform. Having a hard time determining my CLEO.

It's on the instructions:https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...53201/download

Law Enforcement Notification. The applicant must provide a copy of the Form 1 to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who has
jurisdiction over the area of the applicant’s address shown in item 3b of the
Form 1. In addition, if the applicant is other than an individual, a copy of
the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person
Questionnaire, for each Responsible Person must be provided to their
respective Chief Law Enforcement Officer. The Chief Law Enforcement
Officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the
State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.

Even asked my city police department and they had no idea what I was talking about. Would it be chief of police in my city, or county sheriff? Where do I locate their proper contact information?

Google works.

When do I send them a copy of the form 1 application?

At the same time you eFile or if by paper when you mail your paper Form 1.

how do I estimate the OAL of the completed firearm when I cannot possess the completed upper?

Measure a rifle. If it's a 16"bbl and you are going to assemble an SBR w/ 12" bbl you deduct 4" from the OAL if the rifle.

Seems like there are some trapdoors in the system that are not spelled out plainly. A person needs to do a lot of digging to do this properly.

It's only a trap door if you haven't read the instructions.
Before eForming, read the instructions on the paper Form 1.

Does the BATF have a help line for this process?

Nope.

Is there anyone that provides a class or service to help a guy properly complete this form to ensure things are done correctly, lawfully and in the proper order?

You might find an FFL/SOT who can help somewhat, but we don't do Form 1's. We do Form 4's (transfers).



I recommend reading this after you've read the Form 1 instructions: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/V...rms/17-493132/

[dogtown tom]

Sharkbite If you live inside the city limits..it the police dept (if you have one) outside an incorporated city, use the Sheriff’s office. Some cities use the Sheriffs office to “police” the city. As an example some cities in Los Angeles county dont have their own Police dept and contract with LASD for police services. If you call 911 to report a home burglary, who responds?...

The largest submitter of NFA forms in history doesn't do that. Silencer Shop sends in to a state official in every state. Usually the State Attorney General.

If they send it back, fine. You complied with the requirement.

[308Loader]

Thanks guys. Would have been nice if the instructions were easily found. appreciate the link, maybe I overlooked it or skimmed past it. AG or local LE or county LE? AG covers all of the state requirements? or local/county LE? Will read through the link and see what I can find. Thanks again for the input, just want to do this right if I go down the path of SBR.

[308Loader]

Went the pistol route for now. Bought an Anderson lower and ATI pistol buffer tube/receiver extension. Intend to top it off with a 7-1/2” 300 blackout upper. Still plan to do form 1 for SBR, but this way I have something while I wait. Should be all good right?

In my research I find that someone could unknowingly commit a felony pretty easily. Gun shows and websites offer up the products readily without warning the consumer of their obligations. I fully understand, know what you're buying and how the configuration might matter. Other examples beyond the AR15 platform might be something like the stock I found for the 1911 in a gun rag. Shoulder fired pistol with barrel of 5” right? Or what about the rig that you snap a pistol into that has a stock and fore end. Or as simple as a Thompson contender pistol barrel without changing out the stock for a pistol grip. Not sure, but I think most people might not read up on their configurations legitimacy and assume their good to go because they bought it on an open market. Definitely not looking for more control on these items, or trying to justify their existence, just thinking out loud. A person could pay a hefty fine or even go up the river for a good spell if they didn’t inform them self’s on current legislation concerning their configurations.

[44 AMP]

A person could pay a hefty fine or even go up the river for a good spell if they didn’t inform them self’s on current legislation concerning their configurations.

There you go. Like most things "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Easy, simple, convenient, cheap, and a few other things we want and expect are rarely legal requirements.