pulling bullets question

bernardo · June 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

I am undoing some reloading mistakes with a kinetic bullet puller and a couple are not coming out. Will freezing the ammo or warming up in the sun help in them coming apart? I want to avoid the heating but hoping the cooling would help. Next step is to get the cam-lock bullet puller.

chris in va · June 13, 2010, 10:41 AM

Don't be shy with that kinetic puller. Whack the snot out of it on hard concrete. Might take a few hits. They're shatterproof plastic, won't hurt it.

reloader28 · June 13, 2010, 12:22 PM

If you have bullets that sat around awhile and are tough, seat the bullet a touch deeper first.
That breaks the "glue seal" that seems to form after a while. And like Chris said, really whack it.
I do that every time, and they always come out like butter.

Dave P · June 13, 2010, 01:17 PM

... and then buy the cam-lock for next time - they are safer. Yes, a friend had a round "go off" as he was whacking it.

oneounceload · June 13, 2010, 01:20 PM

Inertia bullets pullers are NOT shatterproof, and smacking them on concrete will demonstrate that. Using a nice piece of wood on the concrete will yield great results. When I undo rifle rounds, I put a foam earplug in the bottom of the puller to save the bullet tip from getting smashed

**Mal H** · June 13, 2010, 01:58 PM

Agreed - I cringe when I see folks advising to hit it as hard as they can on concrete. The end grain of a 4x4 (or larger) hardwood block works very well, and it gives just a little so the puller will last a lot longer.

One tip is to not anticipate the hit and thereby hold back a little. Hit the block of wood as if you wanted to smash something a few inches below the surface.

DANNY-L · June 13, 2010, 02:10 PM

Alot of the hammers are warranted if they do break,you might also want to wear safety glasses just incase.

briandg · June 13, 2010, 02:29 PM

I turned out a whole bunch of really awful .38 rounds, low power, dirty, smoky, because I reduced the first trial load (that worked fine) by 0.3 grains and loaded up 300. That's the only time I ever pulled a bunch of bullets. I actually sat on a camp stool and hammered on a piece of firewood that I stood on end. End grain oak.

Don P · June 13, 2010, 03:11 PM

The instructions with my Frankford Arsenal bullet puller stated DO NOT STRIKE IT ON CONCRETE. As stated by Mal H Hitting the end of a 4X4 is best.
Foster makes a nice puller for presses. Faster ans a whole lot less of a mess

Jim243 · June 13, 2010, 03:11 PM

Kinetic bullet pullers are OK for bringing a bullet out when seated too deep, but will damage the bullet point. For any quanity of rounds that need to be broken appart use the cam-lock style that fits in your press, you will need to purchase the collet for the caliber you will be pulling (but they are needed). They work like a charm and allow you to redo rounds in no time at all with out any damage to the bullet, case, primer or powder (you can recover your powder as well).

Jim

bernardo · June 13, 2010, 03:43 PM

Thanks for the input. I have ordered a bullet puller with collets for my bullet calibers.

Edward429451 · June 13, 2010, 03:53 PM

I have proved that all brands are not shatterproof. Concrete shatters them, wood shatters them. Eventually you realize that the hammers are junk and get a press mount version.

DocAitch · June 13, 2010, 09:05 PM

I have a Foster's collet puller that is fine for rifle rounds and pistol rounds with enough exposure, mine's modified so that I can push a sticky bullet out without any hassle.

But when I'm doing a bunch of mixed rounds (collected mistakes) in different calibers of just the occasional round with a missing or upside down primer (progressive press), the Quinetics inertial puller is the tool I favor.
The Quinetics chuck is designed so that you do not have to disassemble the puller to put in a round and you only have to open the cap about a 1/4 turn to dump case powder and bullet. The chuck is also made of metal, the other brands are made of plastic resin and don't last long.
DocAitch

Colorado Redneck · June 13, 2010, 10:28 PM

I have an RCBS collet puller. Works pretty good. One thing the same as what Reloader 28 said, when you get the collet tightend down, first push the bullet a hair deeper into the case, and then pull it out of the case neck.

And I have NEVER recovered a bullet that could be reused from the collet. My RCBS kinetic puller had a piece of foam in the area where the removed bullet ended up when it was smacked on the concrete floor. It was great, as all of the materials were re-usable. Only problem was, I hit it on the concrete one time too many and shattered it. RCBS would probably replace it, but the collet puller is just too handy to go to the effort of sending the old kinetic puller back.

FrankenMauser · June 13, 2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

And I have NEVER recovered a bullet that could be reused from the collet.

Do you only load lead bullets?

Most of the collet pullers will leave jacketed bullets completely reusable. They do, however, completely annihilate lead bullets.

And yes, for an inertia puller - use a block of wood. Don't whack it directly on concrete. You'll shatter it 10 times faster than on wood. Act like you've driving a nail with a real hammer. You need to hit the wood, not just tap it.

Lost Sheep · June 14, 2010, 01:05 AM

A couple of posts have recommended hammering like driving a nail or as if you are hammering something beyond the surface you are hitting.

Perhaps I am reading the posts incorrectly, but I disagree (at least with what I think they are advising).

I use an RCBS kinetic bullet puller. It has a plastic head and handgrip, but the shaft is aluminum. When I used it like a hammer, I always started getting a bend in the shaft. At the instant of impact, my hand has just the barest grip on the handle. No force is transmitted to from my hand to the head at the instant of impact, and my hand provides no resistance to the rebound. My shaft bending problem went away. I have also read that having a free rebound improves the operation of the device. I always use a wood block, not concrete, ever.

In short, I let the velocity of the head do the work and I provide all the velocity BEFORE impact, not during. At impact, I usually have only thumb and one finger holding the handle. I don't want to dampen the rebound. The rebound potentially doubles the pullet pulling power of each impact.

I also don't try to release the bullet in one strike. I am content to use several strikes if need be, and I think that might help preserve the noses of some of your pointier bullets. And, of course, having a foam rubber ear plug or styrofoam to cushion the fall of the bullet would help.

This is my experience, and I testify that it works very well for me. I opine it may work for you, too.

Lost Sheep

Headgear · June 14, 2010, 05:30 AM

I use more of a strong grip with my left shoulder a little higher than the right an try to set up keeping my head behind the ball, Wait a minute, that's wacking a golf ball! Just kidding!!!

I have one of those hard rubber horse stall mats in front of my work bench and that seems to really work well. It pops them right out.

DocAitch · June 14, 2010, 05:17 PM

Lost sheep, you are correct with your technique and I only recently learned this from the Quinetics instructions. I've never experienced a bending of the handle with my old technique but allowing the tool to rebound freely does seem to make the tool more efficient.
This technique is something that I assume even though I didn't have it right for many years.
DocAitch

briandg · June 14, 2010, 11:13 PM

I just spent a minute considering headgear's suggestion, and a great point came up. A chunk of tire tread would work well as a thump surface. The elastic collision and rebound would result in a greater differential between the forward component and the backward movement, in other words, that bullet will be pulled better because it is moving forward with the same momentum as it would against a solid surface, but the cartridge and puller would be rebounding much more strongly than if it was against a non elastic surface.

You'll work less, put less wear on your tool, and be happier, I suspect.

DocAitch · June 14, 2010, 11:35 PM

I don't think that will work very well.The softer the struck surface, the more the energy is lost in redirection of forces (think of bouncing a basketball on the grass instead of the concrete/asphalt parking pad). The best surface for transferring energy should approach the hardness and elasticity of the plastic material in the puller.
I use the end grain of a large piece of mulberry log because it is handy, but I'm sure there are better materials
DocAitch

Lost Sheep · June 15, 2010, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocAitch

I don't think that will work very well.The softer the struck surface, the more the energy is lost in redirection of forces (think of bouncing a basketball on the grass instead of the concrete/asphalt parking pad). The best surface for transferring energy should approach the hardness and elasticity of the plastic material in the puller.
I use the end grain of a large piece of mulberry log because it is handy, but I'm sure there are better materials
DocAitch

DocAitch is correct. The modulus of elasticity and the coefficient of restitution tell you how high the device will rebound. Combine those properties of the materials used in the bullet puller and the surface hit and you could conceivably find the ideal surface upon which to whack.

A brand-new tennis ball typically rebounds 80% of the height from which it was dropped (onto a completely inelastic surface, approximated by concrete or stone). A Superball typically, 98%. The trick is to find something that is elastic enough not to shatter (exceed its breaking strength, even momentarily), but with a high coefficient of restitution.

The theoretical approach appeals to me (and is probably what the manufacturers go through). But the practical approach of just taking the kinetic bullet puller on hand and whacking it against all available surfaces to (experimentally and by instinctive feel) find the ideal surface is probably a LOT quicker to find a good choice. Try softwood, hardwood and a plastic surface the same as the bullet puller (maybe a spare bullet puller set face up in a vice).

See what seems to work best. Sometimes the empirical approach is best. Simple. A variation of Hockam's Razor.

Lost Sheep

Sport45 · June 15, 2010, 04:38 AM

Quote:

I am undoing some reloading mistakes with a kinetic bullet puller and a couple are not coming out.

What cartridge are you pulling? Kinetic pullers don't work very well in my experience with light bullets like the 17 caliber or light varmint bullets in 223. There just isn't enough inertia to overcome good neck tension. A collet type puller would work much better for these. A 250gr bullet in a .45 Colt seems to pop out rather easy...

briandg · June 15, 2010, 10:12 AM

There is a mistake in what you're saying here. In the first place, you are taking rigid materials (bullet puller) and bouncing it off of a semi rigid surface. The bullet itself is moving, and your intent is to not allow it any sort of braking influences.

If you were bashing it into bubble wrap, silly putty, or even a tennis ball, then this would be valid, or if that piece of rubber was laying loose on a floor, then the momentum built up in the downswing would be lost, and when the puller actually did stop moving, the bullet itself would have also lost it's momentum.

If you smacked your bullet puller on a superball, that recoil will add to the forces already generated by braking. You can pull bullets just by heavy recoil in a handgun, right? So, adding recoil to that deceleration will increase the pulling effect.

As he said, empirical testing would be the key. I'm going to give it a try next time I'm at the bench, just out of curiousity, but I must say, I'm darned if I know how to actually get accurate testing.

bow shot · June 17, 2010, 11:19 AM

For my .204, it usually takes me 9-20 whacks, just deliberate hammering, no "malice" applied. Just be patient.

I like the idea of pushing them in a couple thou. first if they've been sitting for a while.

FYI, The poly tips on my sierra blitz kings and Hornady Vmaxes often creep out a tad though...

bow shot · August 2, 2010, 11:05 AM

...and I just busted my impact puller, LOL! Well, I bought it used on eBay (and it had something that looked like chicken poop all over it, and it looked like it had been used as a framing hammerr it when it arrived, I am NOT kidding) so its origin/abuse record is unknown...

I'll likely get another (new) and see how long it lasts.

June 13, 2010, 10:21 AM	#1
bernardo Member Join Date: April 29, 2010 Posts: 21	pulling bullets question I am undoing some reloading mistakes with a kinetic bullet puller and a couple are not coming out. Will freezing the ammo or warming up in the sun help in them coming apart? I want to avoid the heating but hoping the cooling would help. Next step is to get the cam-lock bullet puller.

June 13, 2010, 01:17 PM	#4
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	... and then buy the cam-lock for next time - they are safer. Yes, a friend had a round "go off" as he was whacking it. __________________ I think this country is screwed.

June 13, 2010, 03:11 PM	#9
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	The instructions with my Frankford Arsenal bullet puller stated DO NOT STRIKE IT ON CONCRETE. As stated by Mal H Hitting the end of a 4X4 is best. Foster makes a nice puller for presses. Faster ans a whole lot less of a mess __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

June 13, 2010, 09:05 PM	#13
DocAitch Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: North of Baltimore Posts: 60	Puller I have a Foster's collet puller that is fine for rifle rounds and pistol rounds with enough exposure, mine's modified so that I can push a sticky bullet out without any hassle. But when I'm doing a bunch of mixed rounds (collected mistakes) in different calibers of just the occasional round with a missing or upside down primer (progressive press), the Quinetics inertial puller is the tool I favor. The Quinetics chuck is designed so that you do not have to disassemble the puller to put in a round and you only have to open the cap about a 1/4 turn to dump case powder and bullet. The chuck is also made of metal, the other brands are made of plastic resin and don't last long. DocAitch

June 13, 2010, 10:28 PM	#14
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Collet puller I have an RCBS collet puller. Works pretty good. One thing the same as what Reloader 28 said, when you get the collet tightend down, first push the bullet a hair deeper into the case, and then pull it out of the case neck. And I have NEVER recovered a bullet that could be reused from the collet. My RCBS kinetic puller had a piece of foam in the area where the removed bullet ended up when it was smacked on the concrete floor. It was great, as all of the materials were re-usable. Only problem was, I hit it on the concrete one time too many and shattered it. RCBS would probably replace it, but the collet puller is just too handy to go to the effort of sending the old kinetic puller back.

June 13, 2010, 10:41 AM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Don't be shy with that kinetic puller. Whack the snot out of it on hard concrete. Might take a few hits. They're shatterproof plastic, won't hurt it.

June 13, 2010, 12:22 PM	#3
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	If you have bullets that sat around awhile and are tough, seat the bullet a touch deeper first. That breaks the "glue seal" that seems to form after a while. And like Chris said, really whack it. I do that every time, and they always come out like butter.

June 13, 2010, 01:20 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Inertia bullets pullers are NOT shatterproof, and smacking them on concrete will demonstrate that. Using a nice piece of wood on the concrete will yield great results. When I undo rifle rounds, I put a foam earplug in the bottom of the puller to save the bullet tip from getting smashed

June 13, 2010, 01:58 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Agreed - I cringe when I see folks advising to hit it as hard as they can on concrete. The end grain of a 4x4 (or larger) hardwood block works very well, and it gives just a little so the puller will last a lot longer. One tip is to not anticipate the hit and thereby hold back a little. Hit the block of wood as if you wanted to smash something a few inches below the surface.

June 13, 2010, 02:10 PM	#7
DANNY-L Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: way upstate ny Posts: 71	Alot of the hammers are warranted if they do break,you might also want to wear safety glasses just incase.

June 13, 2010, 02:29 PM	#8
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I turned out a whole bunch of really awful .38 rounds, low power, dirty, smoky, because I reduced the first trial load (that worked fine) by 0.3 grains and loaded up 300. That's the only time I ever pulled a bunch of bullets. I actually sat on a camp stool and hammered on a piece of firewood that I stood on end. End grain oak.

June 13, 2010, 03:11 PM	#10
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Kinetic bullet pullers are OK for bringing a bullet out when seated too deep, but will damage the bullet point. For any quanity of rounds that need to be broken appart use the cam-lock style that fits in your press, you will need to purchase the collet for the caliber you will be pulling (but they are needed). They work like a charm and allow you to redo rounds in no time at all with out any damage to the bullet, case, primer or powder (you can recover your powder as well). Jim

June 13, 2010, 03:43 PM	#11
bernardo Member Join Date: April 29, 2010 Posts: 21	Thanks for the input. I have ordered a bullet puller with collets for my bullet calibers.

June 13, 2010, 03:53 PM	#12
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I have proved that all brands are not shatterproof. Concrete shatters them, wood shatters them. Eventually you realize that the hammers are junk and get a press mount version.

June 14, 2010, 01:05 AM	#16
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Hammering technique A couple of posts have recommended hammering like driving a nail or as if you are hammering something beyond the surface you are hitting. Perhaps I am reading the posts incorrectly, but I disagree (at least with what I think they are advising). I use an RCBS kinetic bullet puller. It has a plastic head and handgrip, but the shaft is aluminum. When I used it like a hammer, I always started getting a bend in the shaft. At the instant of impact, my hand has just the barest grip on the handle. No force is transmitted to from my hand to the head at the instant of impact, and my hand provides no resistance to the rebound. My shaft bending problem went away. I have also read that having a free rebound improves the operation of the device. I always use a wood block, not concrete, ever. In short, I let the velocity of the head do the work and I provide all the velocity BEFORE impact, not during. At impact, I usually have only thumb and one finger holding the handle. I don't want to dampen the rebound. The rebound potentially doubles the pullet pulling power of each impact. I also don't try to release the bullet in one strike. I am content to use several strikes if need be, and I think that might help preserve the noses of some of your pointier bullets. And, of course, having a foam rubber ear plug or styrofoam to cushion the fall of the bullet would help. This is my experience, and I testify that it works very well for me. I opine it may work for you, too. Lost Sheep

June 14, 2010, 05:30 AM	#17
Headgear Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Location: Southeast, IN Posts: 123	I use more of a strong grip with my left shoulder a little higher than the right an try to set up keeping my head behind the ball, Wait a minute, that's wacking a golf ball! Just kidding!!! I have one of those hard rubber horse stall mats in front of my work bench and that seems to really work well. It pops them right out.

June 14, 2010, 05:17 PM	#18
DocAitch Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: North of Baltimore Posts: 60	Lost sheep, you are correct with your technique and I only recently learned this from the Quinetics instructions. I've never experienced a bending of the handle with my old technique but allowing the tool to rebound freely does seem to make the tool more efficient. This technique is something that I assume even though I didn't have it right for many years. DocAitch Last edited by DocAitch; June 14, 2010 at 05:17 PM. Reason: spelling

June 14, 2010, 11:13 PM	#19
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I just spent a minute considering headgear's suggestion, and a great point came up. A chunk of tire tread would work well as a thump surface. The elastic collision and rebound would result in a greater differential between the forward component and the backward movement, in other words, that bullet will be pulled better because it is moving forward with the same momentum as it would against a solid surface, but the cartridge and puller would be rebounding much more strongly than if it was against a non elastic surface. You'll work less, put less wear on your tool, and be happier, I suspect.

June 14, 2010, 11:35 PM	#20
DocAitch Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: North of Baltimore Posts: 60	I don't think that will work very well.The softer the struck surface, the more the energy is lost in redirection of forces (think of bouncing a basketball on the grass instead of the concrete/asphalt parking pad). The best surface for transferring energy should approach the hardness and elasticity of the plastic material in the puller. I use the end grain of a large piece of mulberry log because it is handy, but I'm sure there are better materials DocAitch

June 15, 2010, 10:12 AM	#23
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	There is a mistake in what you're saying here. In the first place, you are taking rigid materials (bullet puller) and bouncing it off of a semi rigid surface. The bullet itself is moving, and your intent is to not allow it any sort of braking influences. If you were bashing it into bubble wrap, silly putty, or even a tennis ball, then this would be valid, or if that piece of rubber was laying loose on a floor, then the momentum built up in the downswing would be lost, and when the puller actually did stop moving, the bullet itself would have also lost it's momentum. If you smacked your bullet puller on a superball, that recoil will add to the forces already generated by braking. You can pull bullets just by heavy recoil in a handgun, right? So, adding recoil to that deceleration will increase the pulling effect. As he said, empirical testing would be the key. I'm going to give it a try next time I'm at the bench, just out of curiousity, but I must say, I'm darned if I know how to actually get accurate testing.

June 17, 2010, 11:19 AM	#24
bow shot Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2009 Posts: 263	.20 cal For my .204, it usually takes me 9-20 whacks, just deliberate hammering, no "malice" applied. Just be patient. I like the idea of pushing them in a couple thou. first if they've been sitting for a while. FYI, The poly tips on my sierra blitz kings and Hornady Vmaxes often creep out a tad though...

August 2, 2010, 11:05 AM	#25
bow shot Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2009 Posts: 263	ha ha ha!!! ...and I just busted my impact puller, LOL! Well, I bought it used on eBay (and it had something that looked like chicken poop all over it, and it looked like it had been used as a framing hammerr it when it arrived, I am NOT kidding) so its origin/abuse record is unknown... I'll likely get another (new) and see how long it lasts.