The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 2, 2020, 01:25 PM   #26
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93 View Post
It isn't necessarily tied to a specific gun, it's just permission to 'buy a gun'
The specific details of the gun aren’t entered into a NICS check other than the general category of firearm, but a NICS check can only be performed by a dealer in conjunction with the transfer of a specific firearm (or multiple firearms).
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old January 2, 2020, 02:05 PM   #27
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 13,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwc
Go to forum The High Road and ask Spatts McGee
No need. Spats McGee is a moderator here, and he has already commented. See post #22
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 2, 2020, 08:38 PM   #28
Legal_trouble
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
If you don't mind the question, why didn't you file for an expungement and sealing of your record?
Unfortunately I was ineligible for a full on expungement, otherwise that's definitely the route to take.
Legal_trouble is offline  
Old January 2, 2020, 10:27 PM   #29
pwc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2018
Location: AZ
Posts: 159
Aguila and Spatts- thanks for covering my goof.

I've never seen a bad lead from either of you.
pwc is offline  
Old January 2, 2020, 10:35 PM   #30
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 13,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal_trouble
Unfortunately I was ineligible for a full on expungement, otherwise that's definitely the route to take.
That may be an issue, and it's another reason for you to consult an attorney if you can possibly swing it.

I'm not an attorney, but I pick up tidbits here and there, and some of it sticks. Something I sort of recall from several years ago was an article about restoration of rights, and the feds. All I can remember is that the author said the feds do not recognize the firearms rights restoration process of some states as meeting their requirements.

I don't think the article listed states, and if it did I don't remember. Also, it was several years ago, so things may have changed. The basic point is that, once again, we have the dance between the state governments and the federal government, and they don't also operate in sync. You may be perfectly good to go insofar as the state of Ohio is concerned, but the feds may not agree.

And if I've misrepresented this, I hope one of the lawyers on here will chime in and correct me.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 3, 2020, 05:43 AM   #31
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal_trouble View Post
Unfortunately I was ineligible for a full on expungement, otherwise that's definitely the route to take.
This sends up a red flag for me. AB has summarized my reaction to it pretty well, with the obvious exception that I am an attorney.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
That may be an issue, and it's another reason for you to consult an attorney if you can possibly swing it..... [Like AB, I seem to recall reading that] the feds do not recognize the firearms rights restoration process of some states as meeting their requirements....The basic point is that, once again, we have the dance between the state governments and the federal government, and they don't also operate in sync. You may be perfectly good to go insofar as the state of Ohio is concerned, but the feds may not agree....
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 3, 2020, 09:45 AM   #32
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal trouble
Unfortunately I was ineligible for a full on expungement, otherwise that's definitely the route to take.
Though I've reluctantly undertaken a few criminal matters, that isn't in any way the focus of my practice, so discount my comments as you see fit. I am not asking you for further clarification.

Ohio's expungment process may be unavailable to an individual because of the character of the act resulting in conviction, the number of convictions, another recent conviction, or an assessment of the prosecutor and court that the applicant shouldn't have the record expunged. I've performed a few, and never had one denied even where the code doesn't provide for it. (That's not bragging -- an attorney not having lost a sort of case is just a sign he doesn't take hard ones.)

I don't know whether your conclusion that you are ineligible means that your application should be denied according to a code section, or if you asked the prosecutor's office and received a negative response. (This is not a request for clarification.) One of the advantages of having the matter handled by counsel is the difference in the character of the conversation of an attorney with a prosecutor and judge. In a process that ultimately hinges on personal interactions and judgments, that matters.

Expungement isn't a metaphorical eraser. You are still convicted and your record still exists and is accessible, but you no longer have an obligation to disclose it in certain common circumstances like lease and employment applications.

It is not clear to me that even an expungement and sealing by an Ohio court would entitle you to receive an arm from a federal licensee. You may merely be entitled to purchase from non-licensees. This is another circumstance in which a UBC would work a hardship on an individual.

Last edited by zukiphile; January 3, 2020 at 10:28 AM.
zukiphile is offline  
Old January 4, 2020, 01:41 PM   #33
Legal_trouble
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 13
Hello folks, after all the advice here I've spoke with a lawyer over the phone yesterday morning. He answered some of my questions and is researching the others and we're meeting early this coming week to go over the remaining issues he didn't have immediate answers for. I also spoke with the sheriff's office CCW division.

I will summarize my questions and his answers here once that meeting takes place.

In the mean time, don't take this post as an end-all to this thread, I welcome any additional advice / questions / comments!
Legal_trouble is offline  
Old January 4, 2020, 04:30 PM   #34
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 13,932
To Legal_trouble:

This is a question that arises from time to time and I'm sure I am not the only person here who will be interested to learn as much about how this plays out as possible. That said -- remember that this is a public forum, on the Internet. Be careful that you don't spill any personal information that could be detrimental to you in the future. When you hire an attorney, there's attorney-client privilege to protect anything you tell them. There's no semblance of confidentiality or privileged information here on an open, public forum.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 5, 2020, 03:34 PM   #35
Legal_trouble
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 13
Just got a text from the lawyers secretary, meeting is Tuesday morning. Are there any specific questions anyone here would suggest I ask other than the points / questions I've already raised here?

@Aguila Blanca thank you for that advice, I'm usually a pretty private person so I don't think it'll be an issue not to indulge too much personal info but very good point.
Legal_trouble is offline  
Old January 5, 2020, 04:27 PM   #36
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 13,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal_touble
Just got a text from the lawyers secretary, meeting is Tuesday morning. Are there any specific questions anyone here would suggest I ask other than the points / questions I've already raised here?
I would review the points already raised. In particular, I would focus on the difference between "expungement" and "restoration of rights," and what that means in terms of regaining your federal gun rights. In other words, does the process you went through satisfy the federal requirements for allowing you under federal law to buy and possess firearms.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 5, 2020, 09:16 PM   #37
pwc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2018
Location: AZ
Posts: 159
I know you are dealing with firearm rights here, but please also ask about having your voting rights restored; it's just ss important.
pwc is offline  
Old January 5, 2020, 11:22 PM   #38
Legal_trouble
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 13
Voting rights are automatically restored in Ohio at the completion of your sentence. But great suggestion, I know not all states are automatic like here.
Legal_trouble is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 02:55 PM   #39
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
Older thread here but generally problems passing background checks due to criminal records that are not otherwise prohibitive fall into a few categories.

State or court fails to update records. Essentially a case (even something nonsensical that has no judgement yet is 20 years old) appears open or current. My understanding is the state (or maybe only POC states) updates their NICs records, and if done improperly then a legit expungement can even appear unrelated to the conviction it applies to.

Incorrect interpretation of state law, ie in one state a DWI is not a crime carrying > 2 years, another state it is. The agent erroneously denies someone for non prohibiting convictions..

Drug crimes which do not automatically block one based on the max sentence but the person is flagged as a drug user (possibly completely erroneously even a decade later)...

Some things you can control and some you can't but checking all available records, ie states, any court you have been involved with, and expunging all arrests and minor convictions possible, can solve such problems (common for people to expunge a felony but leave a bunch of misdemeanors there that are then misinterpreted)..

Also, as mentioned, at the state level there can be workarounds. Like in NH for example the state police perform all checks involving pistol transfers and more consistently correctly interpret their own laws, so there are people who can buy a pistol and 3 rifles but would get denied purchasing just a rifle because the feds screw it up.
riffraff is offline  
Old January 18, 2020, 01:19 AM   #40
Legal_trouble
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 13
Hi guys, an update: a lot of the details are very case specific and I'm not able to share as much as I'd hoped to here at this time but I'd like to one day do a more in detail write up after everything comes to a final closure. When that'll happen there's really no way to say...

Now here's what I can say after speaking with my lawyer, as the judge stated I'm G2G to buy a gun from another private individual now (and I've done so!) however the very earliest I should even try an FFL transfer is after June 1st. Apparently the state of Ohio is pretty ok about updating records in cases such as mine however they only do it 2 times a year (but, as they should, they will of course add prohibiting records as they come in). He said there's no reason even to try now cause ~10 days over xmas wasn't enough to make the Jan 1 update for sure.

He also said to go ahead and file a VAF now. He said they take so long to process that I may as well start that > year long process ASAP, even if June rolls around and I find I don't need it I'm only out $30 for a set of finger prints and if I do need it I'll already be up 6 months on the wait time.

The final thing he said (that I can share) is in regards to a CCW application. Per the sheriff when I file I'll need to include certified copies of the relief judgement, he told me when I go down to get those copies I need to make 100% sure the case number of the original prohibiting charges are on the relief judgement and if they're not I should contact the judge and ask her to amend the paperwork to include those and then pickup a new certified copy. I asked how it would work if I can't [yet] pass a NICS check that I would be able to pass the ccw nics check and he said that I would still technically get a deny response but the sheriff office ccw department has the final say which is why the paperwork is so important.


Like I said I had numerous other questions and he had answers for everything (I definitely got my $200 worth of legal advice) but I don't feel adding case specifics here would be wise at this time.

Last edited by Legal_trouble; January 18, 2020 at 02:35 AM.
Legal_trouble is offline  
Old January 18, 2020, 02:22 AM   #41
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 13,932
Well done. Thanks for the update, and I'm happy to hear that you got solid advice and that you're on your way to getting it all straightened out.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 18, 2020, 06:07 AM   #42
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,247
Excellent and, like AB said, thanks for the update. Lawyers are expensive, but sometimes we're worth it.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 18, 2020, 08:34 PM   #43
P Flados
Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2017
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 96
Good job with your effort so far and good luck with get things properly squared away.

Last edited by P Flados; January 18, 2020 at 08:55 PM.
P Flados is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07888 seconds with 8 queries