Can I get an opinion on my reloading specs?

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 02:33 AM

This is my first start to reloading. I've made 30 Cartridges with this application. Obviously I will have to find what load is best for MY rifle, but could I get an opinion as to if this is a good start load application?

Winchester Model 70 270

Winchester Cases
Hodgdon H4831 57.5 and 58.5 grains (15-15)
Sierra .277 HPBT
COL-3.34
Case Trim Col-2.53

dipper · May 21, 2009, 02:43 AM

Guess it would depend on bullet weight... which you didn't mention.

butta9999 · May 21, 2009, 03:30 AM

My guess would be a bullet between 100-130gr.

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · May 21, 2009, 04:27 AM

G'day.
Sierra show 3 HPBT in .277 caliber.

Sorry I don't have a powder listing for the 115 gr load.

Quote:

As is the case with all MatchKing bullets, this bullet is designed for target use and is not recommended for hunting.
115 gr MatchKing #1815.

135 gr MatchKing #1833.
H4831SC
52.1 gr, 2700 f/s
53.9 gr, 2800 f/s
55.7 gr, 2900 f/s
57.4 gr, 3000 f/s
59.2 gr, 3100 f/s

145 gr GameKing #1835.
H4831SC
50.0 gr, 2600 f/s
52.0 gr, 2700 f/s
54.0 gr, 2800 f/s
55.9 gr, 2900 f/s
57.9 gr, 3000 f/s
The 140 grain #1835 Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet is intended for medium and heavier game at shorter ranges. It is a tough bullet, allowing higher impact velocities with good expansion at shorter ranges. It also delivers good long-range performance on heavier game from the 270 Winchester and mag- num rifles in 270 caliber and is highly accurate.

So far I have only loaded about 70 rounds for my .270 and they were Sierra 90 gr HP #1800. I will be keen to see your results.

Will you be setting this round up for hunting?

Sport45 · May 21, 2009, 05:00 AM

I only see two .277" Sierra HPBT bullets listed here. One is 115gr and the other is 135gr.

IMHO, you are too far from the start load if you have the 135's but probably okay if you have the 115's.

Quote:

if this is a good start load application?

Where did you find 57.5gr of H4831 listed as a start load for your application?

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 05:59 AM

My fault its a 135 gr HPBT Match King and I'm using these only for target. Barnes Triple X Shock full copper are for hunting.

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · May 21, 2009, 06:00 AM

G'day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sport45

I only see two .277" Sierra HPBT bullets listed here. One is 115gr and the other is 135gr.

The link you have is for the MatchKing range. The Game King is shown here

I got the three projectiles from the 2009 Sierra catalog. The Sierra 5th edition Reloading Manual does not show the 115 gr HPBT #1815.

I hope this helps.

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 06:11 AM

I didn't find 57.5 to be a good start load in any book. The Hodgdon bottle says Win 270---59.5, but i didn't want to start out with a full load. I've found all sorts of data, but nothing exactly for H4831 sierra hpbt 135 gr. That's why Im trying to get opinions.

Randy 1911 · May 21, 2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

I didn't find 57.5 to be a good start load in any book. The Hodgdon bottle says Win 270---59.5, but i didn't want to start out with a full load. I've found all sorts of data, but nothing exactly for H4831 sierra hpbt 135 gr. That's why Im trying to get opinions.

If you look on the bottom of the label under the load data it says the loads listed are MAXIMUM. At least here in the U.S.A. they do.

Sport45 · May 21, 2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

The link you have is for the MatchKing range. The Game King is shown here

My bad, I didn't know the game kings could be HPBT too (I don't hunt, so never looked at them). It looks like you can add a 140gr Game King to my list of .277 HPBT Sierra bullets.

Shooter007,

I think your start load is too high for the 135gr bullet.

Gbro · May 21, 2009, 10:19 AM

I will 2nd Sport45 on your load is high for a starter load.
Do you have a good reloading manual that will assist you in looking for signs of high pressure with your loads?
Just because they preform well on a target is not what is most important.

Quote:

Watch for signs of high pressure while working up a handload. This means extraction difficulty (however slight), flattened primers, cratered primers, ironed-out headstamps, polished headstamps, ejector marks, case-head expansion, and excessive recoil and muzzle blast. And anything else whatever that strikes you as abnormal about the load.

From;
http://www.darkcanyon.net/john_woote...afety_tips.htm

azar92 · May 21, 2009, 10:50 AM

+1 on your starting loads being too high.

If you have load data from an official source but it only lists a maximum load, the rule of thumb is to start at 5-10% beneath that. IF 59.5g is maximum for your bullet and that powder then an appropriate starting load would be around 53.5g.

I have the 2008 Hodgdon basic manual which lists a 130g Hornady Soft Point and a 140g Swift Soft Point for the 270 Winchester. For H4831, the listed max load for the 130g is 60.0C* and the listed max for the 140g is 58.0C*. Appropriate starting loads for those two bullets would be 52.8g of H4831 for the 130g and 54.0g of H4831 for the 140.

The Hodgdon website lists even more extensive load data and it costs nothing. I can't view it right now, as I'm at work and the website is blocked, but you can view it here.

I'd check there first to see if they have your particular bullet, or one closely matching it.

*C = Compressed load

Pathfinder45 · May 21, 2009, 11:15 AM

If you're not getting any high pressure signs you MIGHT be OK...... Have you chronographed them for velocity? If you were getting significantly higher velocity than what the book says you should get, that would be another indication of high pressure even if it hasn't been otherwise evident. I notice your over-all-length is pretty long..... which would help to keep pressures a little lower as long as the bullet isn't crammed into the rifling. In my model 70 your round would barely fit the magazine and I would have to shorten it by just .010" to prevent binding in the magazine. Because my rifle has fairly large chamber dimensions, your load would almost certainly NOT be maximum in mine. But my brother's pre-'64 reaches maximum well before my Classic Sporter does and produces higher velocity with a 20" barrel than my 24" tube. If you could shoot over a chronograph it could warn you to back off a little or give you confidence to add a grain or so more powder a little at a time. The ideal situation would be to acheive excellent accuracy a grain or two below maximum with a load that wouldn't be dangerous if it found its way into someone else rifle. Wear safety glasses.

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 01:58 PM

No I have not fired these rounds. I've looked around and have taken a little information from my Reloading Manual #14 to the Hodgdons Data sheets. Hodgdon says start load is 55 and max is 59.5. I figured I wanted to be right in the middle, but I ordered a bullet puller and I'm going to change my start loads, I want to start at 56.5 grains instead of 58.5 and 57.5. I want to be over 3000ft a sec. With this velocity my BC will be .488...not bad for a 270. When I first started I figured to just stay as close to the Max Load as possible to keep the high velocity, but i guess thats not the most important aspect.

a7mmnut · May 21, 2009, 02:20 PM

NOT poking at you, but if you really need to start out at 3,000 with a 140, don't you just need to get a .270 WSM?

-7-

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 02:24 PM

Basically I understand that I need to start off with a load that is low as possible then work my way up. So would making 5 cartridges for each load (55.5, 56.5, 57.5, 58.5) obviously starting with the lowest and checking after each round be an effective way of determining which load is best?

shooter007 · May 21, 2009, 02:28 PM

First its a 135gr and i dont have to start at 3000ft a sec. That is where I want to end up and i dont need a WSM to do that, a 270 winny is more than capable of doing that. All WSM means is $. Thanks for the opinion though.

a7mmnut · May 21, 2009, 03:11 PM

007:

What I was getting at is EXACTLY what is your target goal? It seems to be a 3,000 fps round. If you had said "The most accurate round I can shoot at.....yds.", then we'd be talking SD vs. velocity instead of BC here. A great target round most likely won't yield the highest velocity in any given weight range. REMAINING velocity at a given range is much more important to continue the higher SD bullet's performance at longer ranges for target shooting. Most of the high SD bullets will pass the lower ones in both velocity and trajectory at some point.

A hunting load is quite different, and starting velocity at max. is where most of us want to be, ideally. I'd go for the best shooting round with Matchkings and settle for whatever velocity you can get. With a 22" barrel and IMR 4350, I never got much over 2850 with the 130 gr. stuff. I later gave up my 24" M700 in .270 before I worked more on the 140-150 gr. range with IMR4350, RL19, and H4831. I would still venture to guess that I would have never seen 2800 fps, even with the longer tube. The WSM's usually shorter 23" pole is in the same boat. If I had wanted a .270 that would shoot a 150 grainer at 3,000 fps, I'd just have bought another Weatherby-accuracy guaranteed.

What the guys are saying about chamber dimensions and safe pressures is the most important. Working up to avoid a shiny ring or flattened primers is my main concern. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get, or go have the rifle rechambered for whatever you deem necessary. A longer barrel is what will give you more velocity, but it won't be of any use if the harmonics ruin your group size because you're belching fire out the end. The .270 is a great shooter. I'd just work up from the bottom, two rounds at a time, and .5 gr. apart. When you can touch those two holes, stop right there and fine tune to .1 gr., then tune OAL-two at a time. Good luck.

-7-

Gbro · May 21, 2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

but I ordered a bullet puller and I'm going to change my start loads

Unless you are out of brass I would just load up some lower pressure test loads because you will want to try the higher loads providing you see no signs of high pressure with the starter's. Its like a bug bite, you will need to scratch it

azar92 · May 21, 2009, 10:24 PM

+1 to what Gbro said. Why pull them? Just make them your mid-range loads and load up some in the starting range...

Pathfinder45 · May 21, 2009, 11:55 PM

The .270 Winchester is good enough. I get 3,000 fps with 150 grain Nosler Partitions with my most accurate 300 yard recipe. This can be done safely with the right powders. Of course I do have a 24" barrel. That's a good tip from Gbro about not pulling all the bullets when you may very well end up right back in the same place. I vote for accuracy before velocity. Yeah, I've got some screamin' loads that out-shoot everything else. But I don't shoot them often because the Partitions aren't cheap and they don't make Norma N-205 powder anymore. Case life is shortened by maximum pressure loads. If you find that your primer pockets are getting loose after 2 or three firings, your loads are too hot; reduce your powder charge! I've had Hornady's 140 BTSP chronographed at 3,285 fps but after two firings I could seat a new primer with my finger; NOT GOOD. By the way, that load showed no visible signs of high pressure. I'm pretty much done with trying to get every last foot-per-second out of it. Wear safety glasses whenever you do load development. If you really want to find the upper limit maybe you should invest in a chronograph. My cases showed no pressure signs but when it's out-running a Weatherby magnum it doesn't matter: THE PRESSURE IS WAY TOO HIGH! The .270 is just as much fun at 2,850 as it is at 3,200 and safer too. After all, it's just numbers.

shooter007 · May 22, 2009, 01:32 AM

Dang! Lots of good feedback in this thread. All of you nailed this one, I'm going to start at the bottom and work my way up. You guys are right about not pulling the bullets also, no reason to. I don't have a problem reloading more anyways

Except for the primers, if any of you know of a web site stocked with Large rifle primers I wouldn't complain if you left the link on a reply! Seriously though thanks for the advice, I really didn't know how much I didn't know until I came to this site!!

May 21, 2009, 02:43 AM	#2
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	Guess it would depend on bullet weight... which you didn't mention. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

May 21, 2009, 03:30 AM	#3
butta9999 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 692	My guess would be a bullet between 100-130gr. __________________ Knowledge is Power!

May 21, 2009, 11:15 AM	#13
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Have you fired these loads? If you're not getting any high pressure signs you MIGHT be OK...... Have you chronographed them for velocity? If you were getting significantly higher velocity than what the book says you should get, that would be another indication of high pressure even if it hasn't been otherwise evident. I notice your over-all-length is pretty long..... which would help to keep pressures a little lower as long as the bullet isn't crammed into the rifling. In my model 70 your round would barely fit the magazine and I would have to shorten it by just .010" to prevent binding in the magazine. Because my rifle has fairly large chamber dimensions, your load would almost certainly NOT be maximum in mine. But my brother's pre-'64 reaches maximum well before my Classic Sporter does and produces higher velocity with a 20" barrel than my 24" tube. If you could shoot over a chronograph it could warn you to back off a little or give you confidence to add a grain or so more powder a little at a time. The ideal situation would be to acheive excellent accuracy a grain or two below maximum with a load that wouldn't be dangerous if it found its way into someone else rifle. Wear safety glasses.

May 21, 2009, 11:55 PM	#21
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	....don't need a WSM.... The .270 Winchester is good enough. I get 3,000 fps with 150 grain Nosler Partitions with my most accurate 300 yard recipe. This can be done safely with the right powders. Of course I do have a 24" barrel. That's a good tip from Gbro about not pulling all the bullets when you may very well end up right back in the same place. I vote for accuracy before velocity. Yeah, I've got some screamin' loads that out-shoot everything else. But I don't shoot them often because the Partitions aren't cheap and they don't make Norma N-205 powder anymore. Case life is shortened by maximum pressure loads. If you find that your primer pockets are getting loose after 2 or three firings, your loads are too hot; reduce your powder charge! I've had Hornady's 140 BTSP chronographed at 3,285 fps but after two firings I could seat a new primer with my finger; NOT GOOD. By the way, that load showed no visible signs of high pressure. I'm pretty much done with trying to get every last foot-per-second out of it. Wear safety glasses whenever you do load development. If you really want to find the upper limit maybe you should invest in a chronograph. My cases showed no pressure signs but when it's out-running a Weatherby magnum it doesn't matter: THE PRESSURE IS WAY TOO HIGH! The .270 is just as much fun at 2,850 as it is at 3,200 and safer too. After all, it's just numbers.

May 21, 2009, 02:33 AM	#1
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	Can I get an opinion on my reloading specs? This is my first start to reloading. I've made 30 Cartridges with this application. Obviously I will have to find what load is best for MY rifle, but could I get an opinion as to if this is a good start load application? Winchester Model 70 270 Winchester Cases Hodgdon H4831 57.5 and 58.5 grains (15-15) Sierra .277 HPBT COL-3.34 Case Trim Col-2.53

May 21, 2009, 05:59 AM	#6
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	My fault its a 135 gr HPBT Match King and I'm using these only for target. Barnes Triple X Shock full copper are for hunting.

May 21, 2009, 06:11 AM	#8
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	I didn't find 57.5 to be a good start load in any book. The Hodgdon bottle says Win 270---59.5, but i didn't want to start out with a full load. I've found all sorts of data, but nothing exactly for H4831 sierra hpbt 135 gr. That's why Im trying to get opinions.

May 21, 2009, 10:50 AM	#12
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	+1 on your starting loads being too high. If you have load data from an official source but it only lists a maximum load, the rule of thumb is to start at 5-10% beneath that. IF 59.5g is maximum for your bullet and that powder then an appropriate starting load would be around 53.5g. I have the 2008 Hodgdon basic manual which lists a 130g Hornady Soft Point and a 140g Swift Soft Point for the 270 Winchester. For H4831, the listed max load for the 130g is 60.0C* and the listed max for the 140g is 58.0C. Appropriate starting loads for those two bullets would be 52.8g of H4831 for the 130g and 54.0g of H4831 for the 140. The Hodgdon website lists even more extensive load data and it costs nothing. I can't view it right now, as I'm at work and the website is blocked, but you can view it here. I'd check there first to see if they have your particular bullet, or one closely matching it. C = Compressed load

May 21, 2009, 01:58 PM	#14
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	No I have not fired these rounds. I've looked around and have taken a little information from my Reloading Manual #14 to the Hodgdons Data sheets. Hodgdon says start load is 55 and max is 59.5. I figured I wanted to be right in the middle, but I ordered a bullet puller and I'm going to change my start loads, I want to start at 56.5 grains instead of 58.5 and 57.5. I want to be over 3000ft a sec. With this velocity my BC will be .488...not bad for a 270. When I first started I figured to just stay as close to the Max Load as possible to keep the high velocity, but i guess thats not the most important aspect.

May 21, 2009, 02:20 PM	#15
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	NOT poking at you, but if you really need to start out at 3,000 with a 140, don't you just need to get a .270 WSM? -7-

May 21, 2009, 02:24 PM	#16
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	Basically I understand that I need to start off with a load that is low as possible then work my way up. So would making 5 cartridges for each load (55.5, 56.5, 57.5, 58.5) obviously starting with the lowest and checking after each round be an effective way of determining which load is best?

May 21, 2009, 02:28 PM	#17
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	First its a 135gr and i dont have to start at 3000ft a sec. That is where I want to end up and i dont need a WSM to do that, a 270 winny is more than capable of doing that. All WSM means is $. Thanks for the opinion though.

May 21, 2009, 03:11 PM	#18
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	007: What I was getting at is EXACTLY what is your target goal? It seems to be a 3,000 fps round. If you had said "The most accurate round I can shoot at.....yds.", then we'd be talking SD vs. velocity instead of BC here. A great target round most likely won't yield the highest velocity in any given weight range. REMAINING velocity at a given range is much more important to continue the higher SD bullet's performance at longer ranges for target shooting. Most of the high SD bullets will pass the lower ones in both velocity and trajectory at some point. A hunting load is quite different, and starting velocity at max. is where most of us want to be, ideally. I'd go for the best shooting round with Matchkings and settle for whatever velocity you can get. With a 22" barrel and IMR 4350, I never got much over 2850 with the 130 gr. stuff. I later gave up my 24" M700 in .270 before I worked more on the 140-150 gr. range with IMR4350, RL19, and H4831. I would still venture to guess that I would have never seen 2800 fps, even with the longer tube. The WSM's usually shorter 23" pole is in the same boat. If I had wanted a .270 that would shoot a 150 grainer at 3,000 fps, I'd just have bought another Weatherby-accuracy guaranteed. What the guys are saying about chamber dimensions and safe pressures is the most important. Working up to avoid a shiny ring or flattened primers is my main concern. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get, or go have the rifle rechambered for whatever you deem necessary. A longer barrel is what will give you more velocity, but it won't be of any use if the harmonics ruin your group size because you're belching fire out the end. The .270 is a great shooter. I'd just work up from the bottom, two rounds at a time, and .5 gr. apart. When you can touch those two holes, stop right there and fine tune to .1 gr., then tune OAL-two at a time. Good luck. -7-

May 21, 2009, 10:24 PM	#20
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	+1 to what Gbro said. Why pull them? Just make them your mid-range loads and load up some in the starting range...

May 22, 2009, 01:32 AM	#22
shooter007 Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 103	Dang! Lots of good feedback in this thread. All of you nailed this one, I'm going to start at the bottom and work my way up. You guys are right about not pulling the bullets also, no reason to. I don't have a problem reloading more anyways Except for the primers, if any of you know of a web site stocked with Large rifle primers I wouldn't complain if you left the link on a reply! Seriously though thanks for the advice, I really didn't know how much I didn't know until I came to this site!!