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#1 |
Member
Join Date: July 5, 2005
Location: NW Mass
Posts: 61
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Lock & Load?
I have heard this term many times, and it always seems to me as if it were reversed... shouldn't it be "load and lock" (thinking from a "1911" mentallity)?
I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not, but any input from the historians always welcome. |
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#2 |
Registration in progress
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Posts: 369
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![]() This was a necessary precaution for a grenadier to employ - Especially before attempting to pour a fresh powder charge down the barrel of either a fire or a flintlock which might have a smoldering fuse or spark cooking in the pan. The other problem that had to be avoided was to prevent a grenadier from, first, charging the barrel of a flint or precussion lock before discovering something wrong with the action! On this type of early firearm repairs were always best made when the barrel was empty. (This is, still, a good rule to follow with antique weapons - today!) During the Second World War the term, 'lock and load' came back into vogue and was applied to the manual of arms for the Garand rifle. Here the correct expression would have been, (As you suspect) 'load and lock'; but popular alliteration changed the sequence to the reverse order. Today, in the colloquial, this term simply means, 'Get ready for action!' ![]() |
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#3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,140
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Lock, Stock and Barrel
Could never figure if this related to the firearm, as he got the whole firearm, lock, stock, and barrel,
or if it came from the farm, meaning he got the lock (keys to the farm, the stock, and all the other goods kept in barrels.
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From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail" |
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#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,575
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Grenadier ?? That's someone who used a grenade which originally used a fuse . The grenadiers ,300 years ago, were the special troops of the british army.They were the best, tall and trained to be the shock troops like the modern rangers.They carried a match case to light the grenades.They also carried a short musket and short sword.
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#5 | |
Registration in progress
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Posts: 369
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Quote:
http://80.1911encyclopedia.org/G/GR/GRENADIER.htm http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster...1828=grenadier http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster...b1828=fusileer Modern interpretation fails to distinguish between the terms, 'fusileer' and, 'grenadier'. Either noun may be used to describe, 'someone in the general infantry who throws a bomb or shoots a projectile'. (I know this for fact because I've spent a lot of time reading historical battle documents.)
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'Things go wrong. The odds catch up. Probability is like gravity; and, you cannot negotiate with gravity. One other thing: God always has the last laugh. You need to remember that!' |
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#6 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2002
Location: Orl Fla
Posts: 3,254
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Quote:
Quote:
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#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 10,223
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We learned the term on the M1 as kids and it still makes sense to me. On "lock and load" you drew back the bolt until it locked open(if it wasnt already there), set the safety - "lock", then inserted a clip and let the bolt go home - "load". See, it still works as called.
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#8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 18, 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,354
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Never did know the exact meanining; I figured it went like this:
"Lock in a mag & Load the chamber." |
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#9 |
Member In Memoriam
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
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None of the above is quite accurate.
In modern military rifle parlance, the term "lock" means to apply the safety. In the days of the Model 1903 Springfield, shooters preparing to fire timed and rapid fired were ordered to "load and lock". With the bolt open, they inserted a clip, stripped the rounds into the magazine, closed the bolt and set the safety to ON to make the rifle safe. There was a possibility of accidental discharge while closing the bolt, but the bolt could not be operated with the safety on. When the M1 rifle was introduced, it became apparent that it could be loaded with the safety on, and that that procedure was safer, so the command was changed to "lock and load". The shooter, with the rifle bolt to the rear, set the safety to ON, then loaded an "en bloc" clip and closed the bolt in complete safety. The term "lock, stock, and barrel" really does refer to a firearm of the percussion or flintlock type. Since the lock, the stock, and the barrel were the main parts of that type of firearm, the phrase meant "the whole thing." Jim |
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#10 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 456
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The term has been around, Lock the magazine in, load a round, as mentioned above by a quicker poster.
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#11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,278
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But back in the days John Wayne was making sands of Iwo Jima and made those words famous, the standard infrantry weapon was the garand. No mag to lock in place, just a clip (since it's internal, I think "clip" applies even though it's not a stripper clip per se) that was slapped in place. Then the weapon was loaded by releasing the bolt. And of course the safety was left on, because you don't want a bunch of edgy marines about to hit the beach with their weapons off safety earlier than they had to.
That's the way I understand it, anyway. I guess what the duke should have said was: "OK men, those of you with Garands or Springfields, load and lock. Those with carbines, grease guns or Thompsons, lock and load. If I'm missing anybody, figure it out for yourself ... PILGRIM!" ![]() I have no idea what the true history is. I like the first answer and all the variations on it the best, but irregardless of how the feat is carried out it will always be "lock and load" to me. And in my head I'll be hearing the Duke's voice. |
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