Game over for the 40 S&W. Say it ain't so!

Wethepeople01 · August 26, 2016, 06:22 PM

I spent ten+ years on the job working for a great township PD in the Midwest. My LE career ended as a result of injuries sustained from being hit by a drunk driver while off duty. I always favored the .40 S&W round and carried a Glock 22 on duty. I live in the West now and our local gun shops DO NOT STOCK .40 cal weapons and stock a minimum of the ammo on the shelves. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm during the warm weather months, but would like to step up the size and caliber of my EDC during cold weather months. Too much local talk about the 'dying .40 cal' for my tastes. I would love a recommendation or two for a concealable .40 to meet my needs. Also, should I consider the .45 over the .40? What would you recommend then?

CDW4ME · August 26, 2016, 06:43 PM

40 S&W is a good choice.
For concealment, capacity, and overall: Glock 23

Ocraknife · August 26, 2016, 06:49 PM

.40 S&W is EVERYWHERE around here and it's cheap. Maybe your LGS are just going though a dry spell. There are lots of places you can order on line in the meantime. I'd sure hate for you to shy away from a chambering you're comfortable with when you might not have to.

Personally, I don't think the .45 offers anymore protection than a .40, it doesn't offer any less either.

They're both great rounds in my opinion and very affordable to shoot. That said, I carry a 9 because it suits my needs better than either but not because I think it's any better holistically.

tahunua001 · August 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

this is an interesting topic. first let me start off by saying I am a big fan of meeting tasks with the right tool for the job. if I go out firewood cutting I'm going to borrow a 3/4 ton from a family member rather than take my little dodge dakota out, if I'm recommending a computer to a customer I never recommend a tablet when either a smart phone or laptop can do the job better and if I need a handgun for a specific purpose and my options are high capacity or stopping power I recommend 9mm and 45ACP accordingly. 40 has always seemed like a compromise to me.

with that said, I have noticed no shift whatsoever in the number of 40 ammo on the shelves or the handgun offerings in the cases where I am, but I have noticed that the majority of handguns that are being sold private party all seem to be 40 so maybe there is some truth to 40 losing popularity but definitely not dying any time in the next decade.

I personally carry 9mm more than not, but that's more due to the fact that my 45s are harder to conceal. when I open carry I always gravitate toward the 45 because... well I like my 45s more, and they are better suited to 4 legged bad guys than the 9mms.

O4L · August 26, 2016, 07:04 PM

I used to be a 45 fan way back when but now it's 9mm exclusively for my SD handguns. I've owned 40 calibers but never cared for them. When I wanted something with more punch I went with 357 Sig.

JDBerg · August 26, 2016, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wethepeople01

Also, should I consider the .45 over the .40? What would you recommend then?

"IMHO" .45ACP works better for me than .40S&W, I'd highly recommend the Gen4 Glock 21 and the HK45, and I have both.

lee n. field · August 26, 2016, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Too much local talk about the 'dying .40 cal' for my tastes. I would love a recommendation or two for a concealable .40 to meet my needs.

XD subcompact.

Quote:

Also, should I consider the .45 over the .40? What would you recommend then?

You can. Probably wont make that much difference in the long run.

Quote:

Too much local talk about the 'dying .40 cal' for my tastes.

More for the rest of us.

Wethepeople01 · August 26, 2016, 07:13 PM

Thank you my new friends. 9mm balistic performance has certainly improved. This is the argument that some make - that the gap has narrowed between the 9mm, .40 & .45. But, this is illogical. With the use of modern bullets and propellants- certainly balistic performance has improved across the board! Also, not all LE agencies have transitioned back to the 9mm. There are plenty of us who have relied up on the .40 S&W in self defense situations without feeling inadequately armed, trained and prepared. The round is a true performer AND it still allows for capacity. I'll take the .40 over the 9mm in the right platform any day. I prefer a magazine capacity of ten (9+1) or more. Barrel length of at least 3.5 inches for the larger cal. And, a three finger grip. This rules out the G27 for me. The G23 is a contender. Also, Sig P320c, FNS 40c, Springfield XDM C. Should I also consider the M&P Compact for cold weather carry (trigger issues?)?
Thanks!

lamarw · August 26, 2016, 08:01 PM

In my opinion "it ain't so". It seems a lot of LE agencies are dumping them as trade-ins. They are going to many of us at great prices from some outstanding gun manufactures like Sig Sauer, Glock, and S&W.

I grabbed a Sig P229 in great condition for $415.00. Then also scored a 357 Sig barrel and have a dual caliber pistol by simply exchanging the barrels. A quick 20 second change over. Then you can also use the same magazines. It takes as long to load a 12 round magazine as it does to change the barrels.

There will be plenty of these police trade-ins around for many years. There will also be plenty of spare parts.

Reloading the .40 S&W and the 357 Sig rounds are a cinch with plenty of reloading components available. Since the .40 and 357 were LEO rounds, there is plenty of inexpensive once fired brass available from training and practice ranges.

Old Bill Dibble · August 26, 2016, 10:06 PM

If shipping is an option there is .40 on line everywhere.

ifithitu · August 26, 2016, 10:58 PM

I have three S&W 40VE,M&P 40 Shield,& Taurus PT140 Millennium G2 40.No problem finding 40 ammo.

BigJimP · August 26, 2016, 11:44 PM

I disagree that the performance of a .40 over a 9mm is significant...because I think it's more about shot placement than it is caliber now with the high quality 9mm defense ammo out there ....but it's your carry gun - and you should carry whatever you want.

But I got sucked into the .40 s&w craze too....with Sig ....and in a smaller gun, easy to conceal I still have a Sig 239 in .40 / and I think the sig 239 is still a good option for a very solid single stack carry gun ( I don't carry them often, but I have one in 9 & one in .40 )...

I even bought a Wilson combat full sized all stainless Protector model in .40 S&W 8 or 9 yrs ago ( I still have other Wilson's in 9mm and .45acp).....and while I shot it a little, it got left out over time....so I sold it to an acquaintance that lusted for it ..../ and I don't miss it.

For yrs I thought the only thing I would ever carry was a 5" Wilson in .45acp ( a CQB that I still love, but with some arthritis now in hands as I move into my late 60's ) i'm carrying a Wilson 5" in 9mm now....i'm a little quicker on follow-up shots with the 9mm...and I shoot it a lot...

So i've evolved on the ---- it had to be a .45acp !! ( in a 1911 of course )...

I do think the gun sales in .40 have slowed way down based on what gun shop owners tell me locally.....and while it's an in between caliber in my view / I know it still has a long term following and I don't think it's going away.

Good luck in your search..../ to me, my primary carry will always be a 1911....in whatever caliber you like / great triggers, great ergonomics....I may go to a 4" or a 4.25" in an alloy frame someday ( when I get old...)...but it will always be a Wilson Combat ...and probably a 9mm....

Wethepeople01 · August 26, 2016, 11:59 PM

Thank you my friends! Great feedback here..

Nathan · August 27, 2016, 06:32 AM

IMO, 40 is a great round in something like a XD40 or maybe a Kahr P40. The P40 is on the line for too small and light for me.

I traded my P40 for a CZ75B 40 and really like it. Of course that was also a trade for a range gun from a CCW gun. My DW CCO has had to take up the slack!

CajunBass · August 27, 2016, 07:30 AM

I've been tempted to buy a 40 just because every time I shoot a 9mm or 45, the guy at my range who sweeps up my brass and dumps it in my range bag, give me a crapper load of 40 brass along with it.

Seems a shame to throw it away.

Guv · August 27, 2016, 07:31 AM

I've got a 96 Beretta and 40 S&W light weight bullet loads approach the much respected 125gr 357 magnum in ballistic performance. Like some others have said just more for us 40 fans.
I also see nothing wrong with 9mm or 45ACP, each has their use.
And since when is "compromise" such a bad thing?

mavracer · August 27, 2016, 08:06 AM

I was around when the 40 came out and really was never a fan, it was an answer to a question that I never asked. The 9mm really got the short end in the fallout from the Miami shootout, but we all have benefited from ammo advancement. The gap is still there between 9, 40 and 45 and sure it's small one, the likelihood that it will matter is remote but so is the likelihood of the 16 or 17th round being your savior.
That being said I'm happy that folks are jumping off the bandwagon. With the current glut of LEO trades and new closeout 40s I have now bought 4 40s (actually 5 but sold the G23) and a good supply of FBI overrun Ranger ammo for great prices.
The G23 started it I got a LNIB LEO trade with 3 mags and night sights for under 400 try as I could Glock's ergonomics just don't work for me, so it was sold and I ordered a LEO trade in Sig P229 ($529 with both short reach and short reset kit 4 mags and night sights) a new FN FNS ($414 with night sights and 3 mags) from Bud's on the same day, I've since added a Walther PPS ($329) and a XDm 5.25 ($539) all 4 were well less than the current price of their 9mm parts

Guv · August 27, 2016, 08:30 AM

mavracer, mum is the word on that overrun ammo mate!

g.willikers · August 27, 2016, 09:12 AM

How about just using what ever is the most available and affordable?
It isn't like there's a huge or even significant difference with the typical handgun calibers is there?
Isn't it more about the shooter than the gun anyway?

Deaf Smith · August 27, 2016, 09:41 AM

It ain't so. I see lots of .40s used by cops around here. Armored car guards to. And a friend who just got a CHL/LTC said .40 was the round of choice at the qualifications (and he got a Glock 23 for carry.)

Deaf

Bluestarlizzard · August 27, 2016, 12:25 PM

Around here, it's the .357 Sig you don't see as much of.

I doubt .40 is going to die out anytime soon. In fact, I don't think it will die out at all. It's fairly entrenched in the cannon of standard defensive calibers at this point. As lee pointed out, manufactures are still putting out new production guns in that caliber and there are a lot of them floating around the market, used, that are good deals.

RUT · August 27, 2016, 01:07 PM

Why does it always have to be either/or? I have 9, .40, & .45 and like them all, for different reasons. And when the next ammo shortage comes around (and it will) you may just find that .40 is a lot more get-able than 9. There's no way I'm going to limit myself to one caliber.

JERRYS. · August 27, 2016, 02:33 PM

gun shops stock what they can sell and what sells in their area. not stocking .40cal handguns does not necessarily mean they wont order one if a customer wants one.... there is a pawn shop near me that stocks new guns. most of the new guns are cobra 380s, and hi-point 9mm because that's what the people in that area buy regularly. they will have plenty of police quality service pieces that are used, but if you want a new glock, they will have to order it.

sureshot106 · August 27, 2016, 02:59 PM

Try an XDS .40

NWCP · August 27, 2016, 08:16 PM

I generally carry a 9mm. When I carry a .45 it's a HKCompact and yes I own a .40S&W. It's a HK full size USP and handles really well. When my youngest son goes to the range with me it's the pistol he wants to shoot. I own pistols in all major calibers and then some. I've never owned a .357Sig. I see no use to it. I own and shoot .22s, .25ACPs, .32ACPs, .380s, 9mm single and double stack, .40S&W, .45ACPs and some day soon I'll have a 10mm for hunting. The .40S&W is here to stay. It makes a reasonably large hole and the recoil isn't bad at all. You want a .40 go for it. Just find a manufacturer that makes one that is comfortable in your hand and go for it. JMHO

August 26, 2016, 06:22 PM	#1
Wethepeople01 Member Join Date: August 25, 2016 Location: Western U.S, Posts: 46	Game over for the 40 S&W. Say it ain't so! I spent ten+ years on the job working for a great township PD in the Midwest. My LE career ended as a result of injuries sustained from being hit by a drunk driver while off duty. I always favored the .40 S&W round and carried a Glock 22 on duty. I live in the West now and our local gun shops DO NOT STOCK .40 cal weapons and stock a minimum of the ammo on the shelves. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm during the warm weather months, but would like to step up the size and caliber of my EDC during cold weather months. Too much local talk about the 'dying .40 cal' for my tastes. I would love a recommendation or two for a concealable .40 to meet my needs. Also, should I consider the .45 over the .40? What would you recommend then?

August 26, 2016, 06:43 PM	#2
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	40 S&W is a good choice. For concealment, capacity, and overall: Glock 23 __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

August 26, 2016, 06:49 PM	#3
Ocraknife Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2002 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,117	.40 S&W is EVERYWHERE around here and it's cheap. Maybe your LGS are just going though a dry spell. There are lots of places you can order on line in the meantime. I'd sure hate for you to shy away from a chambering you're comfortable with when you might not have to. Personally, I don't think the .45 offers anymore protection than a .40, it doesn't offer any less either. They're both great rounds in my opinion and very affordable to shoot. That said, I carry a 9 because it suits my needs better than either but not because I think it's any better holistically. __________________ "The loudest sound you'll ever hear is a "bang" when you weren't expecting one." -Jimro

August 26, 2016, 06:54 PM	#4
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	this is an interesting topic. first let me start off by saying I am a big fan of meeting tasks with the right tool for the job. if I go out firewood cutting I'm going to borrow a 3/4 ton from a family member rather than take my little dodge dakota out, if I'm recommending a computer to a customer I never recommend a tablet when either a smart phone or laptop can do the job better and if I need a handgun for a specific purpose and my options are high capacity or stopping power I recommend 9mm and 45ACP accordingly. 40 has always seemed like a compromise to me. with that said, I have noticed no shift whatsoever in the number of 40 ammo on the shelves or the handgun offerings in the cases where I am, but I have noticed that the majority of handguns that are being sold private party all seem to be 40 so maybe there is some truth to 40 losing popularity but definitely not dying any time in the next decade. I personally carry 9mm more than not, but that's more due to the fact that my 45s are harder to conceal. when I open carry I always gravitate toward the 45 because... well I like my 45s more, and they are better suited to 4 legged bad guys than the 9mms. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

August 26, 2016, 10:58 PM	#11
ifithitu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2016 Location: Derby City KY. Posts: 243	I have three S&W 40VE,M&P 40 Shield,& Taurus PT140 Millennium G2 40.No problem finding 40 ammo. __________________ USMC Vietnam Veteran,0311 Grunt. 6/68 to 7/69 Semper Fi

August 26, 2016, 07:04 PM	#5
O4L Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2015 Posts: 646	I used to be a 45 fan way back when but now it's 9mm exclusively for my SD handguns. I've owned 40 calibers but never cared for them. When I wanted something with more punch I went with 357 Sig.

August 26, 2016, 07:13 PM	#8
Wethepeople01 Member Join Date: August 25, 2016 Location: Western U.S, Posts: 46	Thank you my new friends. 9mm balistic performance has certainly improved. This is the argument that some make - that the gap has narrowed between the 9mm, .40 & .45. But, this is illogical. With the use of modern bullets and propellants- certainly balistic performance has improved across the board! Also, not all LE agencies have transitioned back to the 9mm. There are plenty of us who have relied up on the .40 S&W in self defense situations without feeling inadequately armed, trained and prepared. The round is a true performer AND it still allows for capacity. I'll take the .40 over the 9mm in the right platform any day. I prefer a magazine capacity of ten (9+1) or more. Barrel length of at least 3.5 inches for the larger cal. And, a three finger grip. This rules out the G27 for me. The G23 is a contender. Also, Sig P320c, FNS 40c, Springfield XDM C. Should I also consider the M&P Compact for cold weather carry (trigger issues?)? Thanks!

August 26, 2016, 08:01 PM	#9
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	In my opinion "it ain't so". It seems a lot of LE agencies are dumping them as trade-ins. They are going to many of us at great prices from some outstanding gun manufactures like Sig Sauer, Glock, and S&W. I grabbed a Sig P229 in great condition for $415.00. Then also scored a 357 Sig barrel and have a dual caliber pistol by simply exchanging the barrels. A quick 20 second change over. Then you can also use the same magazines. It takes as long to load a 12 round magazine as it does to change the barrels. There will be plenty of these police trade-ins around for many years. There will also be plenty of spare parts. Reloading the .40 S&W and the 357 Sig rounds are a cinch with plenty of reloading components available. Since the .40 and 357 were LEO rounds, there is plenty of inexpensive once fired brass available from training and practice ranges.

August 26, 2016, 10:06 PM	#10
Old Bill Dibble Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2016 Posts: 802	If shipping is an option there is .40 on line everywhere.

August 26, 2016, 11:44 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I disagree that the performance of a .40 over a 9mm is significant...because I think it's more about shot placement than it is caliber now with the high quality 9mm defense ammo out there ....but it's your carry gun - and you should carry whatever you want. But I got sucked into the .40 s&w craze too....with Sig ....and in a smaller gun, easy to conceal I still have a Sig 239 in .40 / and I think the sig 239 is still a good option for a very solid single stack carry gun ( I don't carry them often, but I have one in 9 & one in .40 )... I even bought a Wilson combat full sized all stainless Protector model in .40 S&W 8 or 9 yrs ago ( I still have other Wilson's in 9mm and .45acp).....and while I shot it a little, it got left out over time....so I sold it to an acquaintance that lusted for it ..../ and I don't miss it. For yrs I thought the only thing I would ever carry was a 5" Wilson in .45acp ( a CQB that I still love, but with some arthritis now in hands as I move into my late 60's ) i'm carrying a Wilson 5" in 9mm now....i'm a little quicker on follow-up shots with the 9mm...and I shoot it a lot... So i've evolved on the ---- it had to be a .45acp !! ( in a 1911 of course )... I do think the gun sales in .40 have slowed way down based on what gun shop owners tell me locally.....and while it's an in between caliber in my view / I know it still has a long term following and I don't think it's going away. Good luck in your search..../ to me, my primary carry will always be a 1911....in whatever caliber you like / great triggers, great ergonomics....I may go to a 4" or a 4.25" in an alloy frame someday ( when I get old...)...but it will always be a Wilson Combat ...and probably a 9mm.... Last edited by BigJimP; August 26, 2016 at 11:51 PM.

August 26, 2016, 11:59 PM	#13
Wethepeople01 Member Join Date: August 25, 2016 Location: Western U.S, Posts: 46	Thank you my friends! Great feedback here..

August 27, 2016, 06:32 AM	#14
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,336	IMO, 40 is a great round in something like a XD40 or maybe a Kahr P40. The P40 is on the line for too small and light for me. I traded my P40 for a CZ75B 40 and really like it. Of course that was also a trade for a range gun from a CCW gun. My DW CCO has had to take up the slack!

August 27, 2016, 07:30 AM	#15
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,768	I've been tempted to buy a 40 just because every time I shoot a 9mm or 45, the guy at my range who sweeps up my brass and dumps it in my range bag, give me a crapper load of 40 brass along with it. Seems a shame to throw it away. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

August 27, 2016, 07:31 AM	#16
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I've got a 96 Beretta and 40 S&W light weight bullet loads approach the much respected 125gr 357 magnum in ballistic performance. Like some others have said just more for us 40 fans. I also see nothing wrong with 9mm or 45ACP, each has their use. And since when is "compromise" such a bad thing? __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

August 27, 2016, 08:30 AM	#18
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	mavracer, mum is the word on that overrun ammo mate! __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

August 27, 2016, 09:12 AM	#19
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	How about just using what ever is the most available and affordable? It isn't like there's a huge or even significant difference with the typical handgun calibers is there? Isn't it more about the shooter than the gun anyway? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 27, 2016, 09:41 AM	#20
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	It ain't so. I see lots of .40s used by cops around here. Armored car guards to. And a friend who just got a CHL/LTC said .40 was the round of choice at the qualifications (and he got a Glock 23 for carry.) Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

August 27, 2016, 12:25 PM	#21
Bluestarlizzard Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 347	Around here, it's the .357 Sig you don't see as much of. I doubt .40 is going to die out anytime soon. In fact, I don't think it will die out at all. It's fairly entrenched in the cannon of standard defensive calibers at this point. As lee pointed out, manufactures are still putting out new production guns in that caliber and there are a lot of them floating around the market, used, that are good deals. __________________ Mal: "If anyone gets nosy, just...you know... shoot 'em. " Zoe: "Shoot 'em?" Mal: "Politely."

August 27, 2016, 01:07 PM	#22
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	Why does it always have to be either/or? I have 9, .40, & .45 and like them all, for different reasons. And when the next ammo shortage comes around (and it will) you may just find that .40 is a lot more get-able than 9. There's no way I'm going to limit myself to one caliber. __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

August 27, 2016, 02:33 PM	#23
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	gun shops stock what they can sell and what sells in their area. not stocking .40cal handguns does not necessarily mean they wont order one if a customer wants one.... there is a pawn shop near me that stocks new guns. most of the new guns are cobra 380s, and hi-point 9mm because that's what the people in that area buy regularly. they will have plenty of police quality service pieces that are used, but if you want a new glock, they will have to order it.

August 27, 2016, 02:59 PM	#24
sureshot106 Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Posts: 32	.40 Try an XDS .40

August 27, 2016, 08:16 PM	#25
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	I generally carry a 9mm. When I carry a .45 it's a HKCompact and yes I own a .40S&W. It's a HK full size USP and handles really well. When my youngest son goes to the range with me it's the pistol he wants to shoot. I own pistols in all major calibers and then some. I've never owned a .357Sig. I see no use to it. I own and shoot .22s, .25ACPs, .32ACPs, .380s, 9mm single and double stack, .40S&W, .45ACPs and some day soon I'll have a 10mm for hunting. The .40S&W is here to stay. It makes a reasonably large hole and the recoil isn't bad at all. You want a .40 go for it. Just find a manufacturer that makes one that is comfortable in your hand and go for it. JMHO