Can I Rely ???

PrivateEye87 · May 26, 2009, 09:30 AM

I need a little guidance here .. does every 1911 need some work to be 100% .. even those of Springfields N Kimber that claims 100% performance out of the box??
Coz the place where i live, it will cost me too much to send them back for work. I need a 100% out of the box .. can i rely on Springfields N Kimber ??

hardluk1 · May 26, 2009, 10:31 AM

Some 1911 owners will tell you they are 100% some will say some tuneing is needed. I am from the later group. No pistol can be said to be 100%. Buy something like a PARA GI for 599.oo retail and if you have problems and have some basic mechanical ability you work through some problems IF they develope. Usally magazine or bullet design related problems anyhow. If a personal defense gun ,,,don't buy a single action, get a double action pistol. SA guns will be carried chambered and on safe only and a novice could screw up. Safer to learn with a double action handgun. For the same kind of money there are many brands that would work well for you. If you have a gunrange around you go down and see what people shoot and what the range rents ,also see if the range guys could help with tuneing if needed. Most ranges have a gun smith too.

hdawson228 · May 26, 2009, 11:05 AM

I purchased the SA 1911 "GI" in stainless. Had maybe four or five failures in the first hundred or so rounds. Later had the SA custom shop add the MilSpec three dot sights, lower and bevel the ejection port and tune the trigger to 3.5-4 lbs. Sweet. Only failures were the ones I mentioned in the first hundred rounds. Perfect since. The custom shop is awesome as is the customer service.

Chesster · May 26, 2009, 11:21 AM

I have several of the lesser expensive Rock Island imports. All have been reliable out of the box. The Tactical to me is the best bang for the buck around.

critter44 · May 26, 2009, 11:45 AM

I own (or have owned-2 are gone) eleven 1911's: Colts, Kimber, Ithica military from 1944, Springfield, Les Baer. Each and every one of them have been 100% reliable without tweaking in the least. That includes hardball and JHP's, SWC's, etc. GOOD 1911's WORK.

Kreyzhorse · May 26, 2009, 12:18 PM

My Springfield TRP has been 100% reliable out of the box. My buddy bought a TRP after shooting mine and his has been 100% reliable as well.

I did replace my FLGR with a standard GI version and plug, my buddy did not, but neither gun has proven to be more reliable than the other due to the change.

And, as a side note, if you do buy a Springfield and if it does have issues, Springfield will pick up the shipping costs to fix it. They really stand behind their product.

NGIB · May 26, 2009, 12:27 PM

Over the past couple of years, I've owned at least 2 dozen different 1911s - and I have yet to find one that needed tweaking. This being said, I generally threw the factory mags in a box and used my own personal stock of quality mags. The vast majority of mine have been full-sized models, only had a couple of the little ones and they were fine as well.

I'm sure there are lemons out there - just never had one myself...

David Armstrong · May 26, 2009, 01:16 PM

On a different forum a number of professional instructors were commenting on reliability, and the general concensus was that of the guns that showed up most in their classes the 1911 model guns were the guns that were most likely to fail on the firing line and the least reliableoiut of the box. So the odds of getting a 1911 that needs work seem higher than other guns. Having said that, if you do get a good one out of the box, it is great and yo don't have to worry much about it. One of the he worst pistol I've ever owned was a Springfield Armory 1911 model. One o fht ebest pistols I've ever owned was a different Springfield Armory 1911 model. Don't know if that helps your decision-making process.

ghalleen · May 26, 2009, 01:25 PM

I've never experienced any type of failure with my Colt Defender 1911.

Gary

IanS · May 26, 2009, 01:31 PM

-If you're gonna get a 1911 make sure to get a full size (5" barrel), single stack, steel frame pistol with an internal extractor. The original configuration tend to work the best. Get good mags (CMC Powermags are easy to find) and feed it good ammo.

-The 1911 built its good reputation in the 20th Century because the U.S. Gov't kept its standard relatively uniform whether it was Colt, Remington Rand, or Singer building it. And they only built the original configuration. Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry builds them to varying degrees of quality. And they also build "choppers" like the custom bike makers. Smaller to satisfy demand. Most of them look cool but not all of them run all that well.

- The 1911 was designed by John Browning to feed ball ammo. Get the feed ramp polished and barrel throated to ensure more reliable feeding of JHP ammo unless it comes that way from the factory.

- The extractor and magazine is the heart of the 1911. Look to these two critical areas first whever you have a problem.

- Shoot the heck out of it before you're tempted to get a bunch of crap you dont' need. Shoot a few thousand rounds through it to make sure its a gun you want to dump money into.

- Buy a decent 1911 at the outset like a Springfield Mil Spec. It costs a little more but really with the cost of .45 ACP ammo the cost of the gun will be a small fraction of what you're gonna be spending to use it. You'll be happier in the long run. (Unless you don't plan on using it much, if that's the case get the cheapest you can find. It doesn't matter then does it?)

PrivateEye87 · May 26, 2009, 03:48 PM

thanks for sharing your views all of you

but more views are needed as, best way to predict the future is to observe past.

N "hardluk1"
this isnt my first handgun, i owned a 24/7, a bad experience though, shoots well but alot of FTFs .. N i own a G19 also, no doubt, perfect. N now thought of owning a 1911

chris in va · May 26, 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

N i own a G19 also, no doubt, perfect. N now thought of owning a 1911

No offense, but it would be better if you spelled out the words instead of reverting to 'netspeak'.

45_Shooter · May 26, 2009, 05:41 PM

I've had mostly used examples of 1911's pass through my hands, but here's my record:

Springfield stainless Mil-Spec: Ran quite reliably, but broke a couple parts on me rather soon.

Springfield stainless Loaded: Ran 100% until the slide broke in half

Colt Combat Commander Series 80 (early model): Ran well with hardball and 7 round mags. Slightly picky about HP bullet profiles, and disliked 8 ound mags. Can't really fault it since 8 round mags and hollow points weren't common when the gun was built in the early '80's.

Kimber Classic Stainless: Jammed so bad it totally locked the gun up once about every 100 rounds. Never did figure it out.

Colt Government M1991A1: Acceptably reliable from the outset, but required a little polishing on the throat and a new extractor to make it 100%.

Colt CCO: Very reliable from the start, but every few hundred rounds it wouldn't push a round all the way into the chamber. It seemed to be when I was tired or feeding it SWC's, so it likely wasn't all the guns fault. Regardless after a throat and polish job it feeds everything, all the time.

Colt Series 70 Government Reproduction: 100% reliable out of the box. It is currently built up into a custom gun, but I still don't think it's ever choked on anything.

Colt Series 70 Government "original": 100% reliable in my recollection, although it never saw much use.

There's been a couple others that I'm forgetting, but you get the general idea. I say buy a quality gun like a Colt, pay $30 for a throat and polish job, and you won't have any troubles.

MosinM38 · May 26, 2009, 06:10 PM

I think so.

My 1911 (RIA) worked great for the longest time(About 1000 rounds).

Seems to be having a rough period now, as it has a FTF every other 8RD magazine or so.

It's clean, lubed, extracter's lubed (That helped a LOT). Don't know quite why it does it..... Thinking of getting a new recoil spring to replace the factory one. That's all I can think of to do to it.

But prior to that it worked 100% (Except for an occasional el'cheapo mag failure). SO I am guessing it just picked up a glitch somewhere.

PrivateEye87 · May 26, 2009, 07:08 PM

@ 45_Shooter
Its so nice of you to share your experiences .. Thank you

@ chris in va
yup .. my mistake and laziness .. Thanks for pointing

So as far, Colt is the most reliable with a bit of tweaking, and then Springfield. I guess i'd go for quality of Colt instead of looks of Springfiled. Although this is a hard choice as m a big fan of springfileds.

AK103K · May 26, 2009, 07:37 PM

I've owned 30+ 1911's over the years, and various examples of most major makers. The only ones that were reliable out of the box with most of the different bullet types have been the Series 80 or later Colts.

Early Colts were reliable with ball, as were some others, GI's mostly, but these were designed to shoot ball, and usually needed help to feed wadcutters and HP's reliably.

Part of the problem these days is, there are now so many "makers" and they all seem to have their own ideas as to what the ''specs" are, and add to that, varying QC practices, I think its become pretty hit or miss if it works out of the box. By out of the box, I mean, just load the mags and shoot without issue.

Another issue for me has been getting the gun "I want" right out of the box on top of the reliability issue. Even with the later Colts, I had to change out parts for the "fit" I prefer, and to replace the cheap plastic parts they were adding at the time. The plastic was more of a cosmetic thing, but annoying all the same.

I finally gave up a few years back and just got away from them all together for the most part. I sold off all but three of my Colts and moved on.

I would say the only way your going to know if you have a good one that works, and fits you, is to either take a chance and buy one, or buy one of the more expensive "custom" guns that has a better chance of being right from the start, especially if you order specifically. If I'm spending $2000, it had better work too.

Dont fall for the "break in" BS. It should have been broke in at the factory.

PrivateEye87 · May 27, 2009, 12:10 PM

@ AK103K
which custom ones would you suggest? Springfield Mil-spec? Springfield TRP? Or those of Kimber? it would be really kind of you to be specific .. rest is my luck

I have no issues in spending more, the thing is that i need a piece that i can trust. but confused :S

ElectricHellfire · May 27, 2009, 12:12 PM

Springfield? probably.

Kimber? LOL

AK103K · May 27, 2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

which custom ones would you suggest?

Nothing from a gun "puppy" mill.

The last couple I shot and was impressed with, were a pair of Night Hawks my buddy has, They were very nice, but then again, so was the price. To rich for my blood. For what he spent on 2 guns, I'd have 6 of what I use now.

Springfield and Kimber dont seem to have any problem shipping guns that obviously havent been checked or tested before they left the factory.

The only way you can know if you can trust any of them, regardless where it comes from, is to shoot it. It should work without issue or break in too.

PrivateEye87 · May 28, 2009, 05:27 AM

hmm.. thankx

knight0334 · May 28, 2009, 07:05 AM

My Norinco 1911-A1 that I bought back in '93 has yet to hickup once, not one FTF or FTE. No malfunctions whatsoever in 16 years, no broken parts. Probably has a 4-5K round count. The best $289 handgun I've ever bought.

My cousin's Kimber Tactical II (I think) is about 6-7 years old, maybe more. I cant recall is having given her any problems either.

May 26, 2009, 09:30 AM	#1
PrivateEye87 Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 7	Can I Rely ??? I need a little guidance here .. does every 1911 need some work to be 100% .. even those of Springfields N Kimber that claims 100% performance out of the box?? Coz the place where i live, it will cost me too much to send them back for work. I need a 100% out of the box .. can i rely on Springfields N Kimber ??

May 26, 2009, 11:21 AM	#4
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	I have several of the lesser expensive Rock Island imports. All have been reliable out of the box. The Tactical to me is the best bang for the buck around. __________________ Chesster Proud NDN "The American Idle" Vote 'Pro-Choice' on 2nd Amendment issues!!!

May 26, 2009, 12:18 PM	#6
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	My Springfield TRP has been 100% reliable out of the box. My buddy bought a TRP after shooting mine and his has been 100% reliable as well. I did replace my FLGR with a standard GI version and plug, my buddy did not, but neither gun has proven to be more reliable than the other due to the change. And, as a side note, if you do buy a Springfield and if it does have issues, Springfield will pick up the shipping costs to fix it. They really stand behind their product. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

May 26, 2009, 12:27 PM	#7
NGIB Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2007 Location: Ft Stewart, GA Posts: 932	Over the past couple of years, I've owned at least 2 dozen different 1911s - and I have yet to find one that needed tweaking. This being said, I generally threw the factory mags in a box and used my own personal stock of quality mags. The vast majority of mine have been full-sized models, only had a couple of the little ones and they were fine as well. I'm sure there are lemons out there - just never had one myself... __________________ Proud to be a veteran. (USAF Retired, Army Civilian) I'm old, grumpy, and jaded - still vertical though...

May 26, 2009, 01:25 PM	#9
ghalleen Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 466	I've never experienced any type of failure with my Colt Defender 1911. Gary __________________ Proud U.S. Army Veteran NRA Life Member

May 26, 2009, 10:31 AM	#2
hardluk1 Junior member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 600	Some 1911 owners will tell you they are 100% some will say some tuneing is needed. I am from the later group. No pistol can be said to be 100%. Buy something like a PARA GI for 599.oo retail and if you have problems and have some basic mechanical ability you work through some problems IF they develope. Usally magazine or bullet design related problems anyhow. If a personal defense gun ,,,don't buy a single action, get a double action pistol. SA guns will be carried chambered and on safe only and a novice could screw up. Safer to learn with a double action handgun. For the same kind of money there are many brands that would work well for you. If you have a gunrange around you go down and see what people shoot and what the range rents ,also see if the range guys could help with tuneing if needed. Most ranges have a gun smith too.

May 26, 2009, 11:05 AM	#3
hdawson228 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2006 Posts: 1,301	I purchased the SA 1911 "GI" in stainless. Had maybe four or five failures in the first hundred or so rounds. Later had the SA custom shop add the MilSpec three dot sights, lower and bevel the ejection port and tune the trigger to 3.5-4 lbs. Sweet. Only failures were the ones I mentioned in the first hundred rounds. Perfect since. The custom shop is awesome as is the customer service.

May 26, 2009, 11:45 AM	#5
critter44 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Posts: 247	I own (or have owned-2 are gone) eleven 1911's: Colts, Kimber, Ithica military from 1944, Springfield, Les Baer. Each and every one of them have been 100% reliable without tweaking in the least. That includes hardball and JHP's, SWC's, etc. GOOD 1911's WORK.

May 26, 2009, 01:16 PM	#8
David Armstrong Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: SW Louisiana Posts: 2,289	On a different forum a number of professional instructors were commenting on reliability, and the general concensus was that of the guns that showed up most in their classes the 1911 model guns were the guns that were most likely to fail on the firing line and the least reliableoiut of the box. So the odds of getting a 1911 that needs work seem higher than other guns. Having said that, if you do get a good one out of the box, it is great and yo don't have to worry much about it. One of the he worst pistol I've ever owned was a Springfield Armory 1911 model. One o fht ebest pistols I've ever owned was a different Springfield Armory 1911 model. Don't know if that helps your decision-making process.

May 26, 2009, 01:31 PM	#10
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	-If you're gonna get a 1911 make sure to get a full size (5" barrel), single stack, steel frame pistol with an internal extractor. The original configuration tend to work the best. Get good mags (CMC Powermags are easy to find) and feed it good ammo. -The 1911 built its good reputation in the 20th Century because the U.S. Gov't kept its standard relatively uniform whether it was Colt, Remington Rand, or Singer building it. And they only built the original configuration. Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry builds them to varying degrees of quality. And they also build "choppers" like the custom bike makers. Smaller to satisfy demand. Most of them look cool but not all of them run all that well. - The 1911 was designed by John Browning to feed ball ammo. Get the feed ramp polished and barrel throated to ensure more reliable feeding of JHP ammo unless it comes that way from the factory. - The extractor and magazine is the heart of the 1911. Look to these two critical areas first whever you have a problem. - Shoot the heck out of it before you're tempted to get a bunch of crap you dont' need. Shoot a few thousand rounds through it to make sure its a gun you want to dump money into. - Buy a decent 1911 at the outset like a Springfield Mil Spec. It costs a little more but really with the cost of .45 ACP ammo the cost of the gun will be a small fraction of what you're gonna be spending to use it. You'll be happier in the long run. (Unless you don't plan on using it much, if that's the case get the cheapest you can find. It doesn't matter then does it?) __________________ Owning a certain handgun isn't a Lifestyle Choice nor is it a Personal Statement. It either works for you or it doesn't. The best article about the 1911 on the internet: http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Duty_Use.html Last edited by IanS; May 26, 2009 at 01:49 PM.

May 26, 2009, 03:48 PM	#11
PrivateEye87 Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 7	thanks for sharing your views all of you but more views are needed as, best way to predict the future is to observe past. N "hardluk1" this isnt my first handgun, i owned a 24/7, a bad experience though, shoots well but alot of FTFs .. N i own a G19 also, no doubt, perfect. N now thought of owning a 1911

May 26, 2009, 05:41 PM	#13
45_Shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2008 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 1,050	I've had mostly used examples of 1911's pass through my hands, but here's my record: Springfield stainless Mil-Spec: Ran quite reliably, but broke a couple parts on me rather soon. Springfield stainless Loaded: Ran 100% until the slide broke in half Colt Combat Commander Series 80 (early model): Ran well with hardball and 7 round mags. Slightly picky about HP bullet profiles, and disliked 8 ound mags. Can't really fault it since 8 round mags and hollow points weren't common when the gun was built in the early '80's. Kimber Classic Stainless: Jammed so bad it totally locked the gun up once about every 100 rounds. Never did figure it out. Colt Government M1991A1: Acceptably reliable from the outset, but required a little polishing on the throat and a new extractor to make it 100%. Colt CCO: Very reliable from the start, but every few hundred rounds it wouldn't push a round all the way into the chamber. It seemed to be when I was tired or feeding it SWC's, so it likely wasn't all the guns fault. Regardless after a throat and polish job it feeds everything, all the time. Colt Series 70 Government Reproduction: 100% reliable out of the box. It is currently built up into a custom gun, but I still don't think it's ever choked on anything. Colt Series 70 Government "original": 100% reliable in my recollection, although it never saw much use. There's been a couple others that I'm forgetting, but you get the general idea. I say buy a quality gun like a Colt, pay $30 for a throat and polish job, and you won't have any troubles. __________________ "You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it." -Clint Smith

May 26, 2009, 06:10 PM	#14
MosinM38 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2007 Posts: 1,030	I think so. My 1911 (RIA) worked great for the longest time(About 1000 rounds). Seems to be having a rough period now, as it has a FTF every other 8RD magazine or so. It's clean, lubed, extracter's lubed (That helped a LOT). Don't know quite why it does it..... Thinking of getting a new recoil spring to replace the factory one. That's all I can think of to do to it. But prior to that it worked 100% (Except for an occasional el'cheapo mag failure). SO I am guessing it just picked up a glitch somewhere.

May 26, 2009, 07:08 PM	#15
PrivateEye87 Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 7	@ 45_Shooter Its so nice of you to share your experiences .. Thank you @ chris in va yup .. my mistake and laziness .. Thanks for pointing So as far, Colt is the most reliable with a bit of tweaking, and then Springfield. I guess i'd go for quality of Colt instead of looks of Springfiled. Although this is a hard choice as m a big fan of springfileds. Last edited by PrivateEye87; May 26, 2009 at 07:21 PM.

May 26, 2009, 07:37 PM	#16
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I've owned 30+ 1911's over the years, and various examples of most major makers. The only ones that were reliable out of the box with most of the different bullet types have been the Series 80 or later Colts. Early Colts were reliable with ball, as were some others, GI's mostly, but these were designed to shoot ball, and usually needed help to feed wadcutters and HP's reliably. Part of the problem these days is, there are now so many "makers" and they all seem to have their own ideas as to what the ''specs" are, and add to that, varying QC practices, I think its become pretty hit or miss if it works out of the box. By out of the box, I mean, just load the mags and shoot without issue. Another issue for me has been getting the gun "I want" right out of the box on top of the reliability issue. Even with the later Colts, I had to change out parts for the "fit" I prefer, and to replace the cheap plastic parts they were adding at the time. The plastic was more of a cosmetic thing, but annoying all the same. I finally gave up a few years back and just got away from them all together for the most part. I sold off all but three of my Colts and moved on. I would say the only way your going to know if you have a good one that works, and fits you, is to either take a chance and buy one, or buy one of the more expensive "custom" guns that has a better chance of being right from the start, especially if you order specifically. If I'm spending $2000, it had better work too. Dont fall for the "break in" BS. It should have been broke in at the factory.

May 27, 2009, 12:10 PM	#17
PrivateEye87 Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 7	@ AK103K which custom ones would you suggest? Springfield Mil-spec? Springfield TRP? Or those of Kimber? it would be really kind of you to be specific .. rest is my luck I have no issues in spending more, the thing is that i need a piece that i can trust. but confused :S

May 27, 2009, 12:12 PM	#18
ElectricHellfire Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,271	Springfield? probably. Kimber? LOL __________________ *Texas, the only State to Have Ever Kicked Another Country's Butt*

May 28, 2009, 05:27 AM	#20
PrivateEye87 Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 7	hmm.. thankx

May 28, 2009, 07:05 AM	#21
knight0334 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: Brookville, PA Posts: 442	My Norinco 1911-A1 that I bought back in '93 has yet to hickup once, not one FTF or FTE. No malfunctions whatsoever in 16 years, no broken parts. Probably has a 4-5K round count. The best $289 handgun I've ever bought. My cousin's Kimber Tactical II (I think) is about 6-7 years old, maybe more. I cant recall is having given her any problems either.