First outing with the new gun, very disappointed

[Greg_TX]

Today was my first chance to get to the range with my Mossy Persuader, and it didn't go as well as I'd hoped. Well, first, a pic of the new baby:



The factory stock was too long to fit me well, so I replaced it with the SpecOps adjustable stock w/ recoil reduction. I had intended to leave it at that with no other mods besides the heat shield, but the comb of the new stock has less drop than the factory one and this makes it hard to sight down the barrel to the bead. I bought an iTAC holo sight, hoping that would help with the awkward aiming.

So anyway, my plan was to get it sighted in w/ slugs, first at 25 yds., then see how it hit at 50 w/o adjustments. I have a Sight Mark laser cartridge for bore-sighting, and I was going to use that to get on paper and then fire some rounds to zero it in.

So that was the first problem - I couldn't see the laser spot on the target, even though it was overcast and not broad daylight, so I had to give up on that. I fired a few rounds just to see where it was to begin with, and it was off by about 8" low and left. I started working on the windage and elevation, but couldn't get it right. Adjust, fire, adjust, fire, etc. - lock the adjustment, still off.

I ended up firing about 30 rounds, and it got to where I couldn't see where the shots were landing because the targets were shredded (one hour between target changes at this range). The battery began to run down on the holo sight, so toward the end I was pretty SOL. I'm sure some or most of the problem was my control of the shots - 2 3/4 and 3" magnum slugs will move a shotgun around a bit.

So that didn't go well, but the other problem was that the breech was opening on some of the shots; I don't know if that was because I was hand loading each shell, or I just wasn't closing the action firmly enough. The breech stayed closed with the 3" shells, but opened most times with the 2 3/4 shells. I guessing this could explain the erratic shot placement.

One bright note, though - the SpecOps stock definitely reduced the recoil. After going through 30 slugs, I'm not sore at all; I'm sure it would have beat me to death with the factory stock. I wonder also if maybe the stock is causing the gun to move too much and possibly throwing off my shots. I'll definitely have to get back out to the range soon to try to sort this all out. I wish it would have gone better this time.

[johnwilliamson062]

one hour between target changes at this range

That is crappy.

[hogdogs]

The gun wont fire until locked for the most part. What is happening is you a re just gripping the fore stock and pulling back as you aimed or just resting it without a little forward push. The action is unlocked as soon a trigger is pulled so it is recoil that is opening the action.
Brent

[oneounceload]

Is this for hunting? If not, why 50 yards?

If yes, maybe a scope would be better

[comn-cents]

My first thought is that you have a 70 or 80 dollar sight on a shotgun. I really don't know anything about iTac sights but I would guess that the recoil is kicken the snot out of that sight. Maybe an upgrade.

[Greg_TX]

What is happening is you a re just gripping the fore stock and pulling back as you aimed or just resting it without a little forward push. The action is unlocked as soon a trigger is pulled so it is recoil that is opening the action.

I was resting the fore stock on a sand bag when firing, so I'm pretty sure you're right. I had the stock on the bag and my hand holding the barrel down when firing - that probably caused the breech failures. This may also explain why my shots were way off - I need to find a proper bench rest, I guess.

[hogdogs]

Yes, I have had mine totally eject a shell when I was too weak in the left arm after a crash to hold gus so I rested it on a railing. A lead sled may work but rests don't seem suited for shotguns...
Stocks have broken when well slaved off.
Brent

[Greg_TX]

Is this for hunting? If not, why 50 yards?

If yes, maybe a scope would be better

I started at 25 because I figured it would be easier to bore-sight and get on target there, then move to the 50-yard range and fine tune from there. I know a scope would work better for longer ranges, but I'd have to find one that can take the recoil. My real intent was to use a site or scope with a large sight window for quick target acquisition, which the holo seemed ideal for. I would have just left it be with no sights or scopes if the replacement stock hadn't made it almost impossible to sight down the barrel. Being left-eye dominant and shooting right-handed doesn't help either.

At least I can hit well with my M&P .40 ...

[Greg_TX]

My first thought is that you have a 70 or 80 dollar sight on a shotgun.

Correct

I really don't know anything about iTac sights but I would guess that the recoil is kick the snot out of that sight. Maybe an upgrade.

It's supposed to be able to take the kick, but then you get what you pay for. Most holo sights I've found online cost a lot more than what I paid for this.

[hogdogs]

Jist ask and ye shall git...
http://www.scopesandmore.meridian1.n...RSR-BS711545|0
Brent

[colostomyclown]

no offense, but this thread just reaffirmed my firm belief against sights on a shotgun. A shotgun isn't to be aimed...it's to be pointed. Using a bead with a slug is just fine. Just aim for center mass. Nice choice in shotgun though. I'd like to see what your grupings were if you'd taken the sight off and used the bead for a bit.

[roy reali]

Problems with a pump shotgun? Blaspheme!!! I thought pump shotguns were foolproof, never fail, reliable firearms. From some comments on other threads it would seem that using a pump shotgun would be like using the Hammer of Thor. I am now totaly confused.

[Dave McC]

A couple things....

I'm no expert on Holo sights, but the word is few can hold up to 12 gauge recoil for long. OTOH, a bead open or peep style sight can last indefinitely and need no batteries.

IMO, despite the alleged reduction in kick from the gizmo stocks, a fitted wood stock of traditional style and a premium pad will work better for most folks and missions. And the drop on that means the bead can be utilized or proper peep or GR style sights.

As for 3" slugs, the 30 some deer I've slugged have been, with two exceptions, taken with 2 3/4" loads. No complaints, one shot kills for the most part.

Both exceptions were shot with 3" sabots. They were harder to recover than most of the Brenekke and Forster style kills.

[Greg_TX]

Well, as I said earlier my original intent wasn't to 'tac-up' the thing. The simpler the better at 3:30 am. The original stock didn't fit me well and I couldn't shoulder it quickly without it snagging my shirt on the way up. It didn't have a recoil pad, so adding one would have made it worse. Admittedly, I didn't scour the market much for aftermarket stocks for it, but the accessory market for the Mossy 500 isn't as good as it is for the 870. I like the adjustability of the SpecOps and the recoil damping works very well. Shooting the heavy stuff will still give you a good shove, but not a sharp kick. The drawback to it is that it messes up the sighting on the bead, and being a left-eye shooting right was just not working out.

The thing with the slugs is that I don't have many choices of places to shoot that will let you fire anything else. This is obviously not the ideal shotgun for skeet or trap, so that's not much of an option either. My thinking was that if I could dial it in at 25 with slugs then the 00 loads I ultimately intent to shoot for HD should hit pretty close out to that range, and closer engagement would just be point and shoot.

I'll try again to get it right, and I'm sure that more practice with it will improve things also. I'm very comfortable with pistols and bolt-action rifles, but I haven't handled shotguns much. I appreciate the feedback - That was mostly the reason I posted this and not so much to whine about a bad day at the range.

[oneounceload]

Well, as I said earlier my original intent wasn't to 'tac-up' the thing. The simpler the better at 3:30 am. The original stock didn't fit me well and I couldn't shoulder it quickly without it snagging my shirt on the way up. It didn't have a recoil pad, so adding one would have made it worse.

You might have been better off getting a good recoil pad and having a gunsmith install it while removing some of the wood to make the LOP more in line with what you need
And IF this is for HD, then there's no need for sighting in at 50 yards. Take a tape measure and find out the longest distance in your home - THAT'S where your practice needs to be. In my home, the longest straight line is about 45 FEET - 15 yards. Even here in FL with the Castle Doctrine, use of deadly force when not needed can lead to nasty consequences

[ZeSpectre]

A few thoughts (and I'm sure I'll catch flak for this).

I'm not a big shotgunner but I've played around with red-dot sights on a few and regardless of what the manufacturers say -very few- red dots will hold up to 12 ga recoil ESPECIALLY with slugs. Dump the "dot" and go for some hi-vis type sights or maybe even mount a laser.

Yeah laugh at me all you want but consider this, combining the fast aim of a laser with the somewhat forgiving nature of a shotgun pattern and you've got something really nasty for close range home defense.

Well, as I said earlier my original intent wasn't to 'tac-up' the thing.

You are okay with that, to be super tactical you have to have the 50BMG looking compensator on the front like this one!

[Logjam]

While I doubt that you'll be going after a covey of quail with this gun, and therefore I'd never buy one; but you will be well armed if the government really does try to take our guns from us.

I have never understood the allure of guns like these, but that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to them.

BTW: if you want to use it for home defense, which I think is what this gun was designed to be used for; I suggest you load nothing larger than No. 7 shot. At close range bird shot is an amazing killer (I've seen the pictures in a coroner's manuel.) Also if you miss your target the shot isn't going to do much damage to others in the household.

[hogdogs]

...clown, Actually the staement of shotguns are pointed not aimed is a bit over used and far out dated.

I fully aim just like I do I sighted rifle to shoot my 2-3 inch slug groups at 60... I have a weird style of doing this though... I use the flat atop the receiver as a rear sight centering the bead on it. I look at the flat then acquire the bead finally i acquire the POA. I then redo this real quick and light the bugger off. I couldn't expect 2 foot groups for a pointed slug shot at 60 yards with my skill level... Heck I couldn't expect better than that from my .30-30 Marlin lever gun on a running deer as well. I am a suck azz shooter that just barely gets by I reckon
Brent

[hogdogs]

BTW: if you want to use it for home defense, which I think is what this gun was designed to be used for; I suggest you load nothing larger than No. 7 shot. At close range bird shot is an amazing killer (I've seen the pictures in a coroner's manuel.) Also if you miss your target the shot isn't going to do much damage to others in the household.

This remark exudes... NAY... DROOLS newbie fallacy that is far too dangerous to ever be spoken. It is as dangerous as syaing the right way to test penetration is to shoot your self in the eye!
First off to suggest #7, 8 9, 7 1/2, 6, 5 or even #4 is telling someone to use a round designed to kill super soft targets from 1 ounce to 30-40 pounds in overall live on the hoof/foot/paw weight. The fact that it may not do the job makes it a bad suggestion but far worse is to spew the manure smelling remark...

Also if you miss your target the shot isn't going to do much damage to others in the household.

This is remarkably irresponsible to say! Bird shot is proven to penetrate 2 layers of sheet rock with force enuff to easily cause great bodily harm if not death and after 4 layers of sheetrock, I doubt any of your loved ones want to take that hit either! The only thing that mitigates wall penetration is to have the projectile mass first enter a nice thick squishy torso. There will never be a lethal force round that is guaranteed to be rendered safe after 2 layers of drywall... NEVER!!! You will always need to know and be held responsible for what is downrange as you should be. You must point/aim or blind luck hit your intended target to mitigate risk of collateral damage. I would use slugs for HD but if I get a thru and thru of totally soft torso the thing would still have enuff force to do GBH to a loved one behind the BG... Thus buckshot.
I have seen coroner pics but not near as many cases as ER pics of survivors of birdshot wounds from many distances.
Now for jungle warfare, birdshot to the torso at outter fringe distance is real messy with a jillion small holes to patch up in stomach and intestines that often results in some poopy leakers that cause later fatal infections:barf:
Brent

[comn-cents]

"clown, Actually the staement of shotguns are pointed not aimed is a bit over used and far out dated."

+1 on that

[Greg_TX]

My defense scenario is this:

I live in a two-story house, with all bedrooms upstairs. There is a single set of stairs leading up to the 2nd floor, and the master bedroom door is at the top of those stairs. There's a light in the staircase that is always on at night, so I can clearly identify any target coming up the stairs. I would be shooting down, away from all the upstairs bedrooms, and if I miss there is no innocent target in that line of fire.

If someone were to break in, I'd be down and to the side of the bedroom door and stay there, looking for any intrusion on the stairs. If they mess with my stuff downstairs, I'd stay put - my insurance will take care of what they take. If they step foot on the stairs, I'll respond to that as a threat to my family and will stop the threat immediately. They'll be met with a 00 welcoming committee. Besides, if I were to go down the stairs, there is a 20' exposure on the side facing the front door and I'd have to cover two directions if I go downstairs. It's a long set of stairs, about 40 feet, which is why I'd like some way of aiming instead of pointing.

[ChancePendergrass]

Get A Nice Optic For It

Best Regards,
Chance Pendergrass

[troy_mclure]

many of the "lower cost" red dot/holo sights ajust on a diagnal. you may have been ajusting the sight wrong?

[RaisedByWolves]

I agree with HotDogs two posts above, although your group size seems to have differed since it was quoted to me before. Then again I may be confusing you with someone else......



Anyway, the OP needs to look up the Hogue youth stock for this gun. I believe they have a 12" LOP and are nice and beefy. Im a fan of the Knoxx products myself, but the cheekweld/sight issue can be a proclem on some setups.

[3 gun]

You need to get it off the sand bag and supported by your off hand in a normal firing grip. Having your hand "on the barrel, holding it down" is a variable that will keep your groups scattered forever. Even if you stopped holding the barrel, resting it on the bag can cause problems. The Mossberg attaches the barrel to the mag tube, and the forearm travels up and down this tube. Since the barrel and tube are connected, pressure on the forearm or tube can and will cause problems. This isn't a problem with most rifle because the barrel is free floated in the stock so resting the forearm on a sandbag doesn't cause a pressure point. You might even find the gun groups differently with a certain number of shells in the tube. Load single rounds or find a happy medium, not full or empty, to sight in with. Then after you've removed that variable check and see what a full or empty tube does to your groups.

As for the bolt unlocking, it happens when you don't hold the forearm. My 500 will even cycle like that on light target loads.