12 guage flechette loads

[hoser1]

Anyone having loading data for 2 3/4" or 3" 12 guage Flechette loads please help. I can't find anywhere.

[DPris]

I wouldn't expect to, and there's a reason for that.
Denis

[JJB2]

[Dave McC]

Forget it. The 12 gauge case doesn't hold enough flechettes to be effective.

Just what are you wanting to do that standard loads won't?....

[270Win]

Good question, Dave McC... !

[lil_bro]

I agree with everyone else what do you need them for?

But if you think you really need them than www.deltaforce.com has them but they are VERY expensive.


Michael.

[johnsonrlp]

Shotgun flechette loads are unaccurate and unreliable for defensive/offensive purposes. The only effective use of flechettes was air dropped. They will penetrate light body armor, if you get a hit (see unaccurate) but don't do much damage once they get inside, its like sending several needles through the bad guy, not much in the way of damage.

But then that depends on what your trying to do. If you're worried about bad guys with body armor why not just use slugs. It might not penetrate but it'll still F#(k them up. Or use a rifle round that will go through medium armor...

[mete]

I've seen an x-ray of someone hit by flechettes .Most of the flechettes were bent and deflected ! They didn't just zip through !!

[Rimrod]

Probably for the same reason the military experimented with them.

hoser, I've never seen data for them. Most of the people who sell the mil-surplus ones don't have any and the ones who sell "their improved" styles only give it out if you buy their product.

If I had some, I would start with a shot cup long enough for the flechettes to fit inside, to protect the barrel, and intended for the case I was using. (refer to a shotgun reloading manual)

You may want to use a buffer to keep them aligned although I doubt the little fins will stabilize them anyway, I think this is one of the reasons they didn't do what they were supposed to. Cornmeal will probably work for this.

Use the reloading manual to find a powder charge. Weigh the flechettes and any filler material to find the total weight of your load. The powder data should be for a load of the same weight or HEAVIER.

Place a cardboard wad on top and roll crimp.

If the shot cup is too long, either fill it up with filler on top of the flechettes or stack cardboard wads under them.

Be careful and most importantly... You don't know me.

[Dfariswheel]

Military shotgun Flechetts loads were loaded with half of them stacked in backward.
This allowed getting more in the shell, since the tiny fins took up room.

By reversing half, the shell could be completely filled.
The problem with this is, the Flechetts that were backward often failed to stabilize.

Even the point forward darts often failed to stabilize, and darts were often found simply sticking in the surface of targets, or hitting sideways.

The military experiments with Flechetts in shotguns were a failure.
The needle-like darts have almost no mass and therefore have no "stopping" or shocking power.
Too many darts failed to penetrate, and this lessened the effect even more.
There were too many instances of enemy troops getting center-mass hits who weren't stopped, and continued attacking until they bled to death internally.

The Flechetts were often fatal......eventually.
The problem with this is, due to the short effective range and the inability to quickly stop someone, "eventually" wasn't soon enough, and the user was in real danger of being killed by a "dead man".

Bottom line: Flechetts were effective when used in howitzers as "bee-hive" rounds for close defense during attacks, but were a failure in shotguns.
For this reason, the Flechetts shotgun round was dropped by the military as one of those "good ideas" that failed in the real world.

To date, no shotgun round yet discovered is more effective than standard old-fashioned, low-tech lead buckshot.

[DPris]

I wasn't going to get into a "Why The Hell Would You Want To?" departure from the original question, but DFaris has it on the nose (he's really nowhere near as dumb as I look, honest!).
The ones I tested about 8 years ago were loaded half & half as D mentions. Shooting them at a plywood board at about ten feet, some stuck, some hit sideways, some dropped after hitting the board, and one bounced back & hit my leg.
Shooting at cardboard will show about the same thing, although there's a tendency for more of the flechettes to straighten out with distance. However, with distance velocity also drops off quickly, along with useful penetration.
They can seriously damage somebody trying to hurt you, but not quickly enough to disable immediately in most cases, I'd suspect, and certainly nowhere near as effectively as 00 Buck.
Denis

[Rimrod]

The question was how to load them, not why.

The military was looking for something that would penetrate dense foliage better than buckshot. While the concept of flechettes was on the right track they didn't perform any better, which I personally think can be improved.

But the best solution is, in my biased opinion, don't use a shotgun for situations where they don't belong. In spite of popular opinion they are not the ideal weapon but rather a special purpose weapon.