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Old April 22, 2012, 06:58 PM   #26
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"When a man with a pistol meets a man with a rifle, the man with the pistol is a dead man!"
Cute saying, but not a truism and certainly not the absolute it is made out to be.
It is true. I saw it in A Fistful of Dollars.
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Old April 22, 2012, 07:18 PM   #27
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owner: who is it?
perp: candygram
owner: huh?
perp: i'm not a masked intruder with a gun or anything.
owner: ok, come on in
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Old April 22, 2012, 08:00 PM   #28
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Old April 22, 2012, 08:17 PM   #29
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Two words. Security camera.

They can be inexpensive and in many instances wireless. They are often easy to hide as well.
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Old April 22, 2012, 09:33 PM   #30
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Three words, "security screen door". I have multiple ways to watch the front door, but if I absolutely HAVE to open the door, you still face a tough, hard to see through security screen door of metal.
Good that the defender made it through OK.
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Old April 23, 2012, 09:23 AM   #31
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Without being flippant, one peep hole is sufficient. If it is being covered, don't open the door.

I am glad it worked out well for the home owner but I will never understand some peoples overpowering urge to open the door. If I dont know you, have not invited you...I dont answer the door (even when I know they can see me watching tv from the 6inch side lights)
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
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Old April 23, 2012, 09:27 AM   #32
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Good no matter what the after thought is there is one less crook walking the streets wanting to do harm to people.
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Old April 23, 2012, 12:36 PM   #33
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I'll bet the homeowners ears are still ringing.
Bottom line is though BG is dead, homeowner + GF are OK. AR-15 saved the day.

If all I had was a rifle or a carbine, I'd stand back from the entrance a good ways and have my girlfriend open the door

My dad did that to me once...except the intruder was a woodchuck that ran into our garage. To this day I would have rather been the one with the gun than the one opening the garage door...
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Old April 23, 2012, 01:09 PM   #34
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I must say this thread has opened my eyes. After lurking around for quite some time I have to finally say thank you to the people on this board for giving me more awareness into a growing facet of my life. I would of never been made aware of this had I not joined some sort of firearm forum.

I just recently, over the last 2 months, acquired the "bug" for shooting and firearms knowledge. I am hoping to make it a hobby that I can enjoy till the day I pass on. Being new to this I have told just about all of my good friends, my mother and my girlfriend of my new found hobby. Now I know when I start to actually purchase guns and safes and things of that nature to be very "hush hush" on who I release the information to. Also, those who are told are to not release the information to others in a irresponsible manor.

I would of never of thought of this as being a reason why someone would go out of their way to invade my home and possibly harm me or my family. And I am especially appreciative of this seeing as we will be welcoming a new life into our home in August so providing and protecting my first child is the number one concern for me in life.

Again I say thank you all for the litany of knowledge I have been able to learn over two short months and apologies for the long winded response.
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Old April 23, 2012, 03:41 PM   #35
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Home owner should have called out, asking who it was. Then the nice sound of a shotgun being racked would have been a nice deteraint. But if all he had was the AR, then that is what you have to use, glad they were OK.
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Old April 23, 2012, 04:04 PM   #36
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There are so many things in here as far as tactics...

Having visibility to the area around your entranceway
Other windows

Having a secondary door like a security storm door

Not opening a door when something is suspect - like not being able to see who is there, or something odd about the situation.

There are a lot of points, but the one that sticks out for me is that opening a door with a long gun is pretty tricky. Most long guns are deployed with two hands. Despite all the other things listed above, it would have been a lot easier for him to respond with a handgun.

The fact that the resident got pushed to the wall indicates to me that the intruder was close enough to grab the rifle... he just failed to.
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Old April 23, 2012, 05:46 PM   #37
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Your home. Does not matter you are the home owner or a tenant. People try to harm you, you defend it. If you are a tenant your landlord will not let you make extra peepholes, nor to do alterations to the property. You always have the right to defend the best way you can. If you did and there is one less bad guy in the world, congratulation! How you did it is your business. I am sure everybody defends their life and their family the best way they can.
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Old April 23, 2012, 07:44 PM   #38
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Home defender could have simply done a callout.
Unfortunately, I think the residents had already missed that exit on this particular highway.

It's 11pm. The man/woman at the door is covering the peephole. The neighborhood (the residents' past history, etc) is apparently sketchy enough that this sets off alarm bells.

The residents called the cops: Great choice imho.

Maybe I'm too old, but if people are knocking at 11pm and not ID'ing themselves, they are probably not on my "friends list."

Whoever is out there WANTS you to answer the door blindly. That's in their tactical advantage. I"m voting for hunkering down and calling for the police, AR or no.
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Old April 24, 2012, 03:01 AM   #39
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Been in a home invasion before. Multiple armed guys. I did in fact open the door even after I already knew my mum and I were in grave danger. It was back in 1989. Mum went to the phone to call the cops and found out it was dead cut by the perps. At the time we did live in the burbs and we had some money at the house. Guy we loved and considered as close as family sold us out to his criminal friends we didn't know he had.

Don't be so judgmental if you are wondering why I opened the door already. My mum and I both naturally decided to open the door. The guys threatened to burn down the house with us in it. They had what looked like a can and they claimed it was full of gasoline. Once we realized we were out numbered, surprised, cornered and with no good options, that deadly fear and the warm smell of blood you feel in your nose when you know you are about to die washed over me. I lost all fear and felt like I was in a trance. The outer body experience of watching a movie that you are in set it.

Truth is neither my mum or I can really give you a logical answer why we decided to let them in. We just did. There was no fear no nothing, I just unlocked the door let them in. To this door my behavior has puzzled me. It would appear when you loose all hope you just tend to go along with whatever your tormentor asks you for. Strange but true. I had a cross bow with a bolt ready, but I just calmly put it down. It may have saved our lives, but it was not a calculated or rationally thought out act.

If that was now, I wouldn't be so cooperative. Someone would have some lead embedded in them real fast am sure. Atleast I think so, but only way you ever really find out is when the real thing happens.most of the time you are not even close in terms of what you think you'd do.
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Old April 24, 2012, 03:39 AM   #40
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I'm still trying to figure out why he opened the door without knowing who was there. Also, why didn't he wait for the police to arrive before opening the door? Just because someone knocks, especially late at night, doesn't mean you have to open the door. He put himself and his GF at great risk by letting the assailant in the apartment.

Never open the door unless you KNOW and TRUST who is there.
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Old April 24, 2012, 05:40 PM   #41
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dec, don't leave us hanging - what happened? Did everyone get out of that one all right?
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Old April 24, 2012, 07:37 PM   #42
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Well it's a bit of a thread detour, but guys standing in front of your door with a can of gas threatening to set fire to your house unless you capitulate:

This is when a .44 magnum or something like 10 ga with #000 Buck comes in handy. They get a lesson in the difference between cover and concealment. Or they're going to learn the second use of a peephole for a resident - used by the resident to line their gun up on target. And then they're going to get lead & wooden splinters.
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Old April 25, 2012, 01:01 AM   #43
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Guys please excuse my detouring the thread here, I just like to respond to armored. Maybe we can all learn from the experience.

Armoredman,I have been a bit busy. But back to your question we all got out alright. Even the perps thankfully. They all got caught thanks to their sconned mastermind. Like you wouldn't believe it, he was among the neighbors who came over to offer their sympathies. But you know what they say about cops having a sixth sense? Sometimes they can smell a perp. We were heartened by his sympathetic posing, but it caught the attention of one of the investigating detectives . He immediately told us he had a hunch our friend was in on it, and that to try and get him to come over the next day when the detectives would be back again to see if we had any new recollections or discovered what else they took.

So next day he was conveniently there and when interviewed about the prior week snd then he was pressed, he left a few too many clues so they arrested him on a different unrelated charge then let him bond out. His buddies then didnt give him his fair share and he having been the source was so angry when he was offered a chance to help the detectives so they'd go easy on the other charge, he ratted them out but claimed he overheard about their involvement. He was hoping to get them in trouble without implicating himself. He got arrested along with the entire crew. Got charged with receiving stolen property, aiding and abetting, as he was the lookout. The othe 4 guys got convicted of armed roberly and kidnapping. One of them got attempted murder for trying to run me over with a truck. God was with me that night. I fell trying to run away and the truck went over me but I didn't have a scratch on me. I just went under and between the wheels. He would later reveal he was stoned on crack because he didnt have th nerve to do a robbery without a little help.

The guys were not too smart. They started fighting among themselves over the loot and were all arrested within a week. Two of them were barely 20 blamed the older guys but it didn't work in court. They told the judge they did it for money for drugs. That they were misled by their older buddies.

I believe reason we didn't get killed or seriously harmed was because we didn't resist. My mum is very small couldn't physically do a thing to any of them. Myself I was 18y/o teen who didn't have much of a clue what to do. But the whole opening the door thing is strange. I mean I did open the door too, and I still can't explain it. It's weird. You just kind of open it and feel like you are I. A trance. You are not even afraid. I think it might be the mind resigning to the fact that the thug(s) will do what they cme thre for no matter what you do maybe. I used to be scared cat honestly, but when it happened I just opened the door and they came in. We had never ran over that scenario and made plans as a family. If we had, outcome would have been different. I don think I'd ever have been dumb enough to open th door.

My suspicion with this guy is he much like us had never run such a scenario in his mind therefore he had no plan at all. Under pressure, you can't think straight and instead go into auto-pilot mode and react based on prior practice or thoughts so incredibly stupid stuff can happen because from my own experience I can tell you there is not very much thought at all let alone rational thought. You just kind of act.

Last edited by dec41971; April 25, 2012 at 01:34 AM.
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Old April 25, 2012, 02:08 AM   #44
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Thanks for sharing that story, and its great to hear it had a positive turnout. Must be a scary experience though!!

Back on topic, sometimes my go-to HD of choice is my AR because it is the only weapon in the home (when I leave the pistol in the car).
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