38 super for 9x19

[skizzums]

hey guys, i looked around the forum and couldnt find a definite consensus on loading 38 super bullets in 9milli, looking at the 130gr plated anf was curious if there is any reason why not? too long maybe?

im sure this has been discussed extensvely in the past, but the search feature didnt bring up much

[Hammerhead]

I've loaded many of the Rainier .38 Super .356" 130 RN plated in 9mm without issue. Many Hornady .356" 125 grain HAPs and some .356" Win 130 JFPs as well.

[skizzums]

cool, thats all i needed, i just like the fact that i can go plated or jacketed sized at 356 for the nines i own with sloppier barrel tolerances, plus 130 sounds like a good grain for carbine length 9mm

[g.willikers]

It's not clear what you meant by "too long."
Did you mean will the loaded rounds fit the internal dimensions of the magazines and the chamber of the barrel?
Or can they be inserted in the cases the recommended amount, according to the reloading charts and manuals, to avoid excessive pressure?
Or both?
Or neither?

[chris in va]

You'll need to 'slug' your barrel to find out what size it is, then go .002" over when sizing your bullets if using lead. You can't just blindly buy .356 bullets and expect any sort of decent accuracy.

[zxcvbob]

I've shot a couple of thousand 135 grain cast bullets in my 9mm. They work great except there's not much load data.

[me26245]

You mention carbine length barrel. I've found that heavier bullets preform better in my 9mm carbines.

I'd look into using 147gr and 158 gr bullets for carbine length barrels.

Myself I try to load and use NATO spec 9mm which is 124gr FMJ at @1250fps.

Since I use several 9mm weapons I just load all my 9mm the same so NATO spec ammo works in my 9mm carbines, but they could do better with the heavier bullets.

[Clark]

For a long time I have been shooting .357" and .358" 158 gr bullets in 9x19mm, 380, and 9x23mm.

I have been shooting .355" 115 gr JHP in 38S&W.

It all works.

Ackley shot .323 bullets in a .308" barrel and got no increase in pressure.

[papershotshells]

Clark,

You state that Ackley shot .323 bullets in a .308 and "got no increase in pressure". Can you please cite a source for that? I'd like to read up on it as I've always read a lot of Ackley's stuff and I haven't seen that. I'm just wondering if it was actually pressure tested or if he just used empirical pressure signs to determine the safety.

(sorry for the thread hi jack, just curious because I'm a fan of the great old gun writers)

Thanks

Papershotshells

[Clark]

This phenomena of large bullets working in a small bore without pressure spikes is documented in P.O. Ackley 1966 "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol 2" chapter 7 "additional pressure tests":
"..30 cal barrel pressure barrel was fitted to the test gun, but the neck and throat was enlarged to accept the 8mm bullet, with the bore remaining the standard 30 caliber. A Remington factory 30-06 cartridge with the 150 gr bullet had been tested and previously gave 57,300 psi, for a velocity of 3030 fps. The the bullets were pulled from two more Remington 150 grain cartridges and were replaced with 8mm 150 grain bullets. To everyone's urprise, although the velocity was rather erratic, these loads averaged 2901 fps, with a pressure of 40,700 psi."

[skizzums]

thanks ,chris in VA, i was saying that i liked having the option for a 356 fmj for the guns i have the have lower barrel tolerences
in the carbine nine my barel is 356, i would love to see an fmj sized to 3565 but then could have issues is i try to cram too large a bullet into a 9mm case
i didnt think i was saying that i was [blindly] buying oversize bullets

me26245, i also like the 147s in the carbine, just thought 130 could also be a nice grain in between the 147 and the 124, but most interested in the 356 diameter in fmj or plated

clark, i have also shot a few 357s cast, but i hate how much i have to open up the brass to not shear off the lead bullet, i just feel like i am overworking the case and likely depleting the life of it, i could be totally wrong, but for me it seemed even with the max flare i still was not getting wide enough to stop all of the lead from shearing over the case
i guess i could try using the 38 powder through die on the 9mm case

[WESHOOT2]

I use 130g FMJ-RN from Montana Gold (sized .356") in my 9x19s.

I've loaded bullets from 110g up to 151g in 9x19 (never could get my 158g lead to fit; most mike .359").

[RickB]

I have been shooting .355" 115 gr JHP in 38S&W.

With what sort of accuracy? Isn't the groove diameter of .38 S&W .363"? I've shot some .452" bullets in a .455 Webley (.457" groove diameter), and can't keep it on a paper plate at ten yards.
American Rifleman ran an article, some years ago, about accuracy potential of bullets sized .355", .356", and .357" in a .38 Super, and found the strongest correlation of bullet and accuracy was the length of the bearing surface, rather than anything to do with bullet diameter. That would appear to favor a heavy, truncated cone bullet.
I just ordered a couple thousand "9mm" bullets from Rainier, as they have at least temporarily suspended production of their ".38 Super" bullet, which appears to differ only in being sized .356" rather than .355". I've used bullets of both sizes in my 9s and my Super, and don't give .001" much thought.

[skizzums]

i cant say what king of accuracy he was getting shooting 355 out of a 38spl, but i have shot the blackhawk 357/9mm combo and accuray was pretty impressive considering the barrel was 357, i too was very suprised and went into the shoot very skeptical on how they could pair those rounds from the same barrell