Is this what I think it is?

stagpanther · October 19, 2022, 10:14 AM

This picture of Ukranian troops popped up on NYT today--that machine gun in the background looks just like a German WW2 era MG42.

Polinese · October 19, 2022, 10:39 AM

If I remember right other countries kept using that platform with minor updates until pretty recently.

ballardw · October 19, 2022, 10:49 AM

You might find this May 2022 page of interest: https://sofrep.com/news/100-year-old...ainian-forces/

I think your picture is of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...hrMG3_noBG.png
Which is derived from what you think it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_3_machine_gun

stagpanther · October 19, 2022, 11:21 AM

Thanks Ballard--even in NATO 7.62x 51 that must be a daunting weapon to come up against.

Sharkbite · October 19, 2022, 05:25 PM

Quote:

that must be a daunting weapon to come up against.

Anything belt-fed gets your attention pretty fast

bamaranger · October 19, 2022, 10:44 PM

There is a great deal of YouTube footage of the MG3 in recent use by the German Army (current) as well as other militaries as well.

jrothWA · October 20, 2022, 08:11 PM

Back in the 90'd, Lithuania joined NATO and sent troops in request.
They brought a LOAD of MG"s, fresh from the arsenal with the "swastikas" proof marks and they had PLENTY of late WWII belted ammo, to boot.
When ammo ran out the change over to 762NATO ammo was done with ease!

Some early UTUBE videos from the ruskian invasion showed some 1908 MAXINS resighted in with RED DOts on them. Did the job, too.

Jim Watson · October 21, 2022, 09:55 AM

Quote:

When ammo ran out the change over to 762NATO ammo was done with ease!

Reportedly there was a WWII project to copy the MG42 in .30-06. It didn't work because our experts did not take into account the longer OAL of our ammo.

Shadow9mm · October 22, 2022, 06:39 AM

Brandon herrera did a few vids on the guns of Ukraine. Think they have some ww1 vintage 7.62x54r maxim machine guns. Lots of crazy vintage stuff popping up.

**44 AMP** · October 22, 2022, 12:40 PM

"Hitler's buzz saw"....
shooting Russians in '42

Still shooting Russians in '22.....

Speaks to both a successful design and desperate people...

I've heard stories about our attempt to build the MG42 in .30-06, and how it failed due to our lack of taking into account the difference in length between the rounds....(don't have any solid sources, though, just stories over the years)

One of the stories says it was Savage, and it was only a prototype, and it didn't work due to the difference in cartridge length, which Savage engineers knew about. According to that version of the story, the Army gave them a captured MG42 and said "Build this! in 06! and build it yesterday!" and didn't care for explantions or the delay it would take to reverse engineer the gun to create the drawnings and tooling to make the gun in .30-06 and make it work. SO, Savage did what the customer demanded.

And when it didn't work, the idea was dropped by the Army for several good reasons, among them being, its a poor idea to arm your troops with an exact copy of the enemy's weapons (which look and sound just like the enemy), and that by the time any could be made and fielded, we didn't need them, the Brownings were winning the war just fine as they were...

There are other versions of the story, some similar, some different....no one today knows what really happened, or exactly why...

zukiphile · October 23, 2022, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaranger

There is a great deal of YouTube footage of the MG3 in recent use by the German Army (current) as well as other militaries as well.

Indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5DnoI5Mlg

I wonder what is better about the machine guns adopted by France, the UK and US since WWII. As we all know from watching Combat! re-runs, the MG42 had a high rate of fire, but german M3s had a heavier buffer weight that slowed the rate of fire.

FrankenMauser · October 23, 2022, 10:35 PM

Schwarzlose and Madsen MGs have been spotted in Ukraine within the last 2 weeks.
"MG 42" does not surprise me at all.

**44 AMP** · October 23, 2022, 11:54 PM

Quote:

I wonder what is better about the machine guns adopted by France, the UK and US since WWII.

In many cases not a whole lot. The US M60 machine gun is not a good gun. Weight is ok, lighter than many, but otherwise it...has flaws...The M240 (FN MAG 58) is a better gun. The US M73/73A1/M219 guns were coax crap, in a very handy but overcomplicated package. I won't comment on the French, or UK arms, because I have no personal experience with them.

Quote:

As we all know from watching Combat! re-runs, the MG42 had a high rate of fire, but german M3s had a heavier buffer weight that slowed the rate of fire.

Nominal rate of fire for the MG 42 is 1100-1200rpm. Same rate for the MG3, with the regular bolt group & springs. The "slow rate" bolt group & spring reduces the rate to 800-950rpm. according to Wiki...

bamaranger · November 3, 2022, 11:01 PM

I watched film clip of German troops fighting the Taliban, hosing down a mud hut with a M3 while the squad flanked. That particular M3 was running at the high rate, and the gunner was not particularly economical with his ammo expenditure.

October 19, 2022, 10:14 AM	#1
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,584	Is this what I think it is? This picture of Ukranian troops popped up on NYT today--that machine gun in the background looks just like a German WW2 era MG42. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

October 19, 2022, 10:49 AM	#3
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,188	You might find this May 2022 page of interest: https://sofrep.com/news/100-year-old...ainian-forces/ I think your picture is of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...hrMG3_noBG.png Which is derived from what you think it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_3_machine_gun __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

October 19, 2022, 11:21 AM	#4
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,584	Thanks Ballard--even in NATO 7.62x 51 that must be a daunting weapon to come up against. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

October 19, 2022, 10:44 PM	#6
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 7,851	footage There is a great deal of YouTube footage of the MG3 in recent use by the German Army (current) as well as other militaries as well.

October 22, 2022, 06:39 AM	#9
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,314	Brandon herrera did a few vids on the guns of Ukraine. Think they have some ww1 vintage 7.62x54r maxim machine guns. Lots of crazy vintage stuff popping up. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

October 19, 2022, 10:39 AM	#2
Polinese Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2010 Posts: 903	If I remember right other countries kept using that platform with minor updates until pretty recently.

October 20, 2022, 08:11 PM	#7
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,512	Back in the 90'd, Lithuania joined NATO and sent troops in request. They brought a LOAD of MG"s, fresh from the arsenal with the "swastikas" proof marks and they had PLENTY of late WWII belted ammo, to boot. When ammo ran out the change over to 762NATO ammo was done with ease! Some early UTUBE videos from the ruskian invasion showed some 1908 MAXINS resighted in with RED DOts on them. Did the job, too.

October 22, 2022, 12:40 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 26,525	"Hitler's buzz saw".... shooting Russians in '42 Still shooting Russians in '22..... Speaks to both a successful design and desperate people... I've heard stories about our attempt to build the MG42 in .30-06, and how it failed due to our lack of taking into account the difference in length between the rounds....(don't have any solid sources, though, just stories over the years) One of the stories says it was Savage, and it was only a prototype, and it didn't work due to the difference in cartridge length, which Savage engineers knew about. According to that version of the story, the Army gave them a captured MG42 and said "Build this! in 06! and build it yesterday!" and didn't care for explantions or the delay it would take to reverse engineer the gun to create the drawnings and tooling to make the gun in .30-06 and make it work. SO, Savage did what the customer demanded. And when it didn't work, the idea was dropped by the Army for several good reasons, among them being, its a poor idea to arm your troops with an exact copy of the enemy's weapons (which look and sound just like the enemy), and that by the time any could be made and fielded, we didn't need them, the Brownings were winning the war just fine as they were... There are other versions of the story, some similar, some different....no one today knows what really happened, or exactly why... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 23, 2022, 10:35 PM	#12
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,031	Schwarzlose and Madsen MGs have been spotted in Ukraine within the last 2 weeks. "MG 42" does not surprise me at all. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 3, 2022, 11:01 PM	#14
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 7,851	I watched film clip of German troops fighting the Taliban, hosing down a mud hut with a M3 while the squad flanked. That particular M3 was running at the high rate, and the gunner was not particularly economical with his ammo expenditure.

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