Shooters vs Competitors.

[Noz]

ZVP. The reason SASS/CAS shooters are protective of their ranges is that one yahoo with a 223 can destroy thousands of dollars worth of targets in a very short period of time. Our targets must be smooth faced or the splash back becomes dangerous.

Would I shoot without SASS competition? Yes.
Would I shoot 17-20 pounds of FFg a year without SASS competition? Probably not.

[zullo74]

Noz,

Shooting 17-20 # of black powder per year, how many pounds of lead do you use per year?

[Hardcase]

I shoot metallic silhouettes and I'm in a skeet league. It's competitive in that we keep score, but neither matches are full of competitors. Everybody has a good time. I guess that the nature of the two sports is that it doesn't take a gazillion dollar gun to shoot a good score. Sure, there are guys who have multi-thousand dollar shotguns for busting clays, but since I can shoot a high score on any given day with my $150 used Winchester, I don't feel too disadvantaged! Same with the silhouettes.

Heck, even the two or three time a year that I shoot a SASS match, nobody seems too wound up about the game.

But I have to say that most of the time my shooting is pretty casual. I get a whole lot of satisfaction out of tossing a bunch of clay pigeons on a berm and busting 'em into tiny little pieces all by myself.

[SG29736]

"the Cowboy stuff will keep me in shape shooting quickly, but I prefer slow relaxed accurate firing on the rifle range, to the spray & pray action of just pulling the trigger to hear myself make noise".

Is this really what you think is happening at cowboy or other action type shooting competitions? Action shooting of any type is certainly not a bullseye match but you won't get very far if you're just pulling the trigger to hear some noise. Mark

[Magnum Wheel Man]

sorry... wasn't refering to really any type of competition by that statement... I have younger friends that buy semi auto high cap handguns, & AK "type" rifles just to go out to the range & blast away as fast as they can...

it was not intended as a slam on Cowboy shooting

[Tanker6]

I guess I'm competitive by nature....but don't read that the wrong way. If I were shooting by myself (which I did for years), I'm still trying to shoot tighter groups or shoot more quickly or hit more shots from a farther distance. I'm competing with myself.

I started shooting SASS last December. My first stages were in the 60's. Then, as I got the hang of it, I started to shoot in the 40's. Now, I typically shoot in the high 20's to mid 30's. I practice (a lot of dry fire) to get better -- but that's not to be "World Champion" or anything. It's my personal satisfaction.

I've played guitar since I was 6 years old. I played in bands in HS, college and 8-10 years ago, I played in a fairly good bluegrass group. We played local festivals and restaurants. Alas, the group broke up and now, I hardly ever pull the guitar out to play. Why? Unless I have some goal (like learning a new song for the group or something), there's no motivation to get better. I guess it's my "flawed" personality, but I need a goal or something out there that I want to achieve before I can get motivated to do the practice to get better.

If I were a fisherman, I'd be trying to cast better. If I were a golfer (which I once was), I'd be trying to hit 'em better. If I were a team roper, I'd be trying to rope better. If I were a cake baker, I'd be trying to decorate better cakes. It's not the destination; however, it's the journey that makes it fun.

[kwhi43]

A lot of people don't understand this shooting competive thing. We do not
go out to beat someone, but to better ourselves. Of all the people I know
"and that's a lot" who shoot at Friendship at the Nationals, I do not know
anybody who gets their kicks from beating someone else. We are there to
compete with ourselves. To make ourselves better. I've been going for 18 years now and that's the way it is. The ones you might say who I am shooting against for score would bend over backwards to help me. They would
give me their last few balls so I could finish a match. I would do the same. we
are all there to help each other. Sportsmanship at it's best. That's the kind of
people that I shoot with. We are all together in shooting even so we are from
all walks of life, and different parts of the country. I wish all of you could
experince this kind of sportsmanship. This is really all the kind I know. After
all we are adults.










































































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[mykeal]

we are alduts

Yes, we are.

[Fingers McGee]

A lot of people don't understand this shooting competive thing. We do not
go out to beat someone, but to better ourselves. Of all the people I know
"and that's a lot" who shoot at Friendship at the Nationals, I do not know
anybody who gets their kicks from beating someone else. We are there to
compete with ourselves. To make ourselves better. I've been going for 18 years now and that's the way it is. The ones you might say who I am shooting against for score would bend over backwards to help me. They would
give me their last few balls so I could finish a match. I would do the same. we
are all there to help each other. Sportsmanship at it's best. That's the kind of
people that I shoot with. We are all together in shooting even so we are from
all walks of life, and different parts of the country. I wish all of you could
experince this kind of sportsmanship. This is really all the kind I know. After
all we are alduts.

+1. I can't count the number of times I've been beaten by my own powder/patch/ball/cartridge/gun that I gave to someone else to use. And I've done the same to others. It's all part of the game to me.

FM

[Old Grump]

I can remember 3 matches where I was helped by a fellow competitor and I repaid them by shooting the pants off of them. First one my Navy issued 45 developed a crack at the corner of the ejection port and locked up. A Navy commander loaned me his gun and I won the match with it. Told him I liked his gun, buy it he said, I did.

Second one my S&W M41 pistol developed a problem in the trigger mechanism and my buddy loaned me his 22, I took my barrel and put it on his lower to keep my sights and did the same thing, he had target grips on his gun and mine were standard, he preferred the smaller so we swapped, I still use those grips today 40 years later.

Third one I ran out of ammo at a challenge match and was going to drop out but my main competitor, (a local cop), gave me some of his reloads so I could finish the match. I never lost another round and I still use that load for reloading myself, 4.6 gr of bullseye behind a 230 gr Lead bullet. I gave him some of my empty brass as thanks.

I have coached new shooters from a competitive team because they obviously needed help to the disgust of my fellow team members till I pointed out they were experienced these guys were green and we were all on the same side wearing the same uniform and wouldn't they nave appreciated the help when they were starting. My whole team jumped in and those boys got an intensive workout before the match.

Shared my lube, my sight black, my stapler, coaching advice if wanted. Rifle and pistol, bullseye and PPC, didn't make any difference. Besides you never know when that shooter might have your back for you when you need it most. If you don't enjoy shooting you have no business on the line and I find most shooters to be very compatible people.

Some snobs and some slobs but nobody is perfect, charity never hurt anybody and it often comes back favorably to you.

[Doc Hoy]

These are the things I miss by being so stubborn.

[Rachen]

I used to shoot competitively but the other guys always shot back so I quit.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Me, I would technically label myself as a "pleasure shooter" because I seldomly participate in any competitions due to the nature of my jobs (OTR driver/oilfield) and most of my shooting for fun and practice orient around tin cans, old pie plates, and other junk that can be made into quick impromptu targets.

But then, I shoot and hunt to sustain myself when living out in the middle of nowhere, and that could be labeled as competition, because you are literally competing against the elements. Don't hunt, you'll starve to death. Miss your shots, you'll go more hungry and lose energy to hunt. You'll be surprised just how much the thoughts of food preoccupies your mind when there is none around you.

If I have time though, I would LOVE to participate in N-SSA. I have attended numerous reenactments and N-SSA matches but never had the time to compete and donate to that sport.

[Mac118]

Any serious competition shooter knows it's all in your head. After all you're trying to get the best score for "you" and the only shot that matters is the one your taking at the present time. That being said; by nature, competition is a personal challenge.

If you're doing it right, you're all alone at the time - no matter how many people are around you!

[Noz]

zullo74,

I have no idea.

I pour my own bullets and balls from scrounged materials and buy handmade(shotmaker) shot for the shotgun.

I've never attempted to work that out.

I have three tall kitchen bags full of empty cans and bottles from my CAS shooting.

[ZVP]

I can understand keeping the H/V bullets off the CAS range as they would destroy the knockovers. However there are other reasons people don't try CAS.
In our club it's a rare occasion that an outsider gets invited to "try" his or her hand at shooting after a match . However I can only guess that's the nature of this ONE little clique and NOT all CSA compeditors act like that! I watched one fella go through nearly a year of kissin-up , picking up brass and donating hours of time and FINALLY they allowed him to "try" his hand at an after match pratice. I suppose it worked because now they let him play... It was a high price tho!
To tell the truth it has ruined the opnions of several members of the Club who would like to "try" and see if they could do the sport. It's unfortunate that this small group has pretty well locked the door on newbies and are hurting the sport.
This again is an isolated incident but traveling to another Possies club is out of the question to all but a couple members since the next closest range is miles and miles way. I know it's kept me out.
nThe trouble is these are really nice people otherwise but when it comes to being allowed on "this" range they change.
I just shoot my BP revolvers and single actions on the reguar Pistol Range. I would like to try and if I ever get out of area I will definately ask permission somewhere else!
I'd never try to damage targets or otherwise do wrong.
Just like everywhere, it is possible for certain cliques to get in control and sometimes it happens where you shade-up. It's unfortunate...
ZVP

[Tanker6]

ZVP, this tale of "exclusivity" at that range is something I thought I'd never hear of. We get new shooters all the time....and we welcome each and every one of them! Our shoot last Saturday had 29 shooters total with 8 of them being under the age of 18 and 4 of them shooters who'd never shot at our range before. Our range is at a private club range, but there have been several times that "other" shooters who happened to be out there shooting their semi-autos, skeet or whatever have "wandered" over to see what we were up to. They were, in each instance, asked if they wanted to borrow a gun or two and take a shot at it!

Exclusivity? Somebody needs a stern talkin' to.....

[ZVP]

Troubles like this need time to go away. A stern talking to or complaint won't work.See, the powers that be are the clique... Sometimes you have to just grit your teeth and let things pass on their own.
I am hoping that in future staff appointments happen the little group will get nibbled away!
This is the only part of the Club that has bad manners, the rest of the club is generous and always takes on newcomers!
We are open to the public and charge only $!5 to shoot for a day. It promotes new membership and is a way to get to shoot at the entire club's facilitys (except one...).
Sorry for venting.
ZVP

[Ideal Tool]

Hello, Years ago at our club, we had an informal Sat. morning sporting rifle league..open to any rifle, any sights. Off-hand at 50yds. sitting, prone & bench at 100yd. Perhaps 8 to 12 members shooting. Rules were simple, no shooting coats or gloves, but sling was permitted. One year, one of the hard-core high-power match shooters asked to shoot with us.."just for practice" He was allowed to suit up in his Creedmoor Sports hard back coat, glove, the whole works. He agreed to eliminate himself from any prizes or trophy. Well of course he always was top shooter each week. And at end of match? Guess who walked away with trophy & armfull of prizes...no one said a word about this. Got the feeling it was an "inside job" but it sure left a sour taste in my mouth.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm enjoying the heck out of this thread . . chuckle, chuckle

I used to shoot competition and grew tired of all the things you guys are talking about . . . now I'm a "lone wolf" too.

Competition is good . . . and I'm not knocking those that shoot in competition matches . . . if you like it, then I say "go for it".

As I'm reading the posts though . . I got to wondering . . . I can't help thinking that as we all grow older . . . . well, maybe the competition thing doesn't seem quite so important and we aren't concerned with who has the "longer gun barrel" . . . so to speak.

After shooting 50 + years, about the only thing I could compete in is an "old fart's match" . . . you know, the one where everyone gets a bright red shiny apple for a prize IF they can hit the target . . . .

[mykeal]

There's a group of 'mature' folks (boys and girls) who get together for an informal 'match' every Monday morning at our club. They shoot for a couple of hours, try each other's guns, eat donuts (probably forbidden to most of them), drink coffee and tell really big lies. Then they go out for breakfast.

It's real tough competition - shoot what you brought, rifle or pistol, everyone from the same firing line (usually 15 yards), one guy acts as RSO but all are very strict about safety. The only real rule is that you can't use the same target as anyone else - every target must be different. I asked about that and was told that they used to be very competitive about scores and it got a little ugly sometimes - threatened to break up the meet. So, they made it impossible to compare the scores. Everyone was literally shooting only against himself. They actually have a little cabinet with several different targets in case anyone shows up with a duplicate of someone else's.

They call themselves 'The Geezers'. They're thinking of setting up a Thursday afternoon trap or skeet league but are struggling with how to come up with enough different target presentations.

[bedbugbilly]

That sounds like my kind of shoot! I like the idea of using the different targets . . . . now if you'd really like to screw somebody's head up . . . you could shoot their target from your spot . . .