Your testing protocol

ckpj99 · October 6, 2015, 06:44 PM

I'm interested in hearing your testing protocol for developing rounds. Obviously, there's ladder testing and all of that, but what about all the other variables.

Personally, I'm all over the map when it gets past testing the charge of powder. In terms of OAL, distance from rifling to bullet and amount of crimp. I just try different things, but I think I'd really benefit from a system.

So when you get a new gun and decide to reload for it, in what order do you do the follow (and where it applies, how do you do the tests):

1) Test different types bullets
2) Test different bullet weights
2) Test different powders
3) Test charge weights
4) Test OAL and whether the bullet is contact with the rifling or not
5) Test the amount of crimp

ckpj99 · October 7, 2015, 12:16 PM

Nobody? Almost a hundred views and no comments, weird.

BigJimP · October 7, 2015, 12:57 PM

I reload primarily for handguns and shotguns....

For handguns, my system is pretty simple...

a. I will test full range for powder listed from Min to Max..but depending on the powder... Min and Max may only be 0.3 or 0.4 gr apart...in some calibers. But yes, I will often test a 2nd or 3rd powder...before I settle on a load. I'm looking for accuracy primarily ...and performance in my handgun ammo so consistent velocity ...I don't care if a round is dirty, guns get cleaned after every range trip anyway ...but I try to avoid an overly dirty load. I've found loads in books ...that left a lot of unburnt powder..or were real smoky - so I move on from those.

b. In 9mm, as an example - I will test ammo for 4 guns most of the time ...a 5" 1911, a 4" 1911, a Sig 226 ( their full sized double stack ), a Sig 239 ( single stack )....for feed reliability and accuracy and consistency --- but ultimately it comes down to if the load will work in all 4 guns ( overall length, accuracy, velocity and recoil differences ) ---- but 90% of my 9mm will be fired in my 5" full sized 1911 -- so it absolutely has to run 100% in that primary range gun --- but I'd like it to run in all of my 9mm's.

c. I will test a variety of bullet weights ...(so again in 9mm....I will test 115gr FMJ, 124 gr FMJ and 147gr FMJ.../.. ( but I don't reload my Defensive Ammo ) ---- I reload my range ammo ...and ultimately in 9mm, I want the 115 gr FMJ bullet ( I use Montana Gold bullets exclusively ) to perform - and since the cost of the bullet makes up 60% or more of the cost of a reload..and the less a bullet weighs - the less we pay for it ...I'd rather shoot the 115 gr FMJ bullet in 9mm all things being equal. Yet I want a reloaded round, if I choose to carry that weapon -- that feels a lot like my primary carry round in that gun.

d. I keep notes in a small spiral - bound notebook - when reloading or at range - that book stays in my range bag / and when reloading test ammo...shoot 3 rounds, make notes.../ book has tabs in it for each caliber --- 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 Mag and .44 Mag...
---------
In .357 Mag as an example...I need the ammo to run in a variety of revolvers.... K frame S&W's from 2 1/2", 4" and 6" barrels / a Henry rifle in .357 Mag / and a single action 4 3/4" barrel Freedom Arms...--- I will only load a bullet with a cannelure on it / so I don't get any bullet movement in the case as the gun fires...or in the under barrel magazine of the rifle. Without cannelures ...bullets in revolvers tend to move forward a little ( almost like using a kinetic bullet puller as the gun is fired ). Accuracy is really important to me ...in a single action revolver...so I want to see really tight groups with a load for that gun. I'm a traditionalist in .357 Mag so I stay with 158gj JSP ( Montana Gold ) in that caliber....

In 9mm - I stay with 115 gr FMJ
In .40 S&W ...I test 165gr FMJ & 180gr FMJ ..but I like 165gr FMJ
In .45 acp .... I will only load a 230gr FMJ

.38 spl and .357 Mag ... 158 gr JSP
.44 Mag .... I will only load a 240gr JSP

============

In shotguns...I load 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ....

In all 4 cases, I primarily load for "pattern" effectiveness...no holes in the pattern big enough for a clay bird to fly thru.....so in a 12ga --- I may test 3/4 oz of shot, 7/8 oz, 1 oz and maybe 1 1/8 oz.../ and I will test 9's, 8's and 7 1/2's..../ I will test velocity as well....from 1150 fps - 1200 fps - 1225 fps - to about 1250 fps...

I will test different "Hulls" .... WIN AA's, REM STS or Nitro primarily ...and I will test different primers...primers in shotshells are not universally interchangeable.../ in 28ga and .410 I will primarily use 9's.....but the load I like the most for all around shotgunning in a 12ga...for clays and live birds is 1 oz of 8's in a 12ga, REM STS Hull, Green Duster Wad at about 1225 fps...works on Skeet, Trap, Continental Trap, 5 Stand and Sporting Clays...and Upland Birds...

I only have two semi- auto shotguns one in 12ga, one in 20ga / a pair of pump guns in 12ga and 20ga....../ the other 15 or so shotguns are all Over Unders...so getting a shell in or out of an O/U is not a big deal - but to make the shells run in a semi-auto or a pump gun...its primarily a proper "resizing issue" -- and a good crimp on the shell. The better shotshell loaders...MEC Grabber, MEC 9000 G or MEC 9000 HN ( which is what I use ) resize the brass base - and give a very good overall crimp. If I have shells with bad crimps, I shoot them anyway in my Over Unders...and then toss them into garbage. In most gagues...I get 15 or more reloads per hull...

===========

I don't do much reloading for rifles...except my lever action Henry rifles in .357 Mag and .44 Mag...

I have no interest in black rifles...and my Big Game hunting days are over...

=============

Main point of my system....
a. Keep Notes in notebook ...

b. Use a "Case Gague" for each caliber I'm loading ...rounds drop in and out easily - catch burrs on cases or small cracks that develop after bullets are seated.

c. After I settle on a load for a caliber.... I buy components in "case lots" ...so if I settle on a 115 FMJ bullet from Montana Gold ....I will buy in cases of 4,000 bullets.../ same thing on my primary handgun powder...Hodgdon TiteGroup...I will buy it in 8 lb kegs ...or cases of ten 1 lb cans....when I need it / and on primers for handguns I use CCI primers...so I buy in cases of 5,000.

d. Keep a log of what I'm loading ....( 9mm primary load right now... 115gr FMJ Montana Gold, 4.7gr TiteGroup...)/ label on every box - handrwritten to keep it easy ... date, 4.7 TG, 115gr MG...on each box. I use cheap file folder labels you can get at office supply place to label the boxes.../ permanent marker..../ in notebook I might say loaded 20 boxes 9mm, 115gr MG, 4.7 .../ if I had any issues with them, I'll note it when I'm at range....notebook stays in my range bag...../ but each box has its own label...

===============
I don't know if any of this helps you ...its just how I approach trying different loads.....different components.

emcon5 · October 7, 2015, 06:38 PM

Assuming a bolt action rifle:

1) Test different types bullets

Unlikely. Choose bullet on intended use, Match/Varmint/Hunting, etc.

2) Test different bullet weights

Again, chosen based on intended use, but I tend to favor heavier for caliber.

2) Test different powders

Possibly, but usually go with past experience and what I have on hand. In the past, for a case of about X capacity, I have had good luck with Powder Y, and I have several pounds of it, so that is what I use.

Examples, for a .308 sized case my goto is IMR 4064, for .30-06 it is IMR 4350.

3) Test charge weights

I normally do a few different things, I will either do a ladder test at 200 yards (the longest practical around here for a solid bench with a paper target). Or more likely load up a a few rounds at several charge weights, and go out and shoot groups. I usually go a half grain between charges (but may go as high as 1 grain for larger cases), and use 7 or 8 rounds per group. Even more rounds would be better, but using at least 7 reduces the chances of getting a fluke good group quite a bit. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

There will usually be a group that is good enough for my needs, if not I will take the best and try to refine it a bit, going to .2 or .3 grain steps up and down from the best group.

I don't normally start with the lowest published load, but start in the bottom third or so of the published range, and rarely bother with the max load. For example, most recently the published range for the bullet/powder I was using was 40.9 to 47.0 grains. My test loads started at 43 and stopped at 46.

4) Test OAL and whether the bullet is contact with the rifling or not

Cut a slot in the neck of a case and use it as a simple OAL to the rifling gauge. Set my bullet seating die to that length, and give it a half turn in. If this is too long for the magazine in the rifle, load to max OAL for the magazine. Yes, I realize I am leaving some on the table here.

I recheck the max OAL to the rifling periodically and adjust as needed as the throat wears away.

5) Test the amount of crimp I don't crimp for bolt guns.

I realize this will not necessarily give me the best possible group for any given rifle, but perfect is the enemy of good, and it has always provided me with a load that is good enough for my needs, without spending too much time and barrel life screwing with variables trying to chase that last 1/8 to 1/4 inch in group size.

DRenn · October 7, 2015, 09:08 PM

For pistol - not much. Judicial use of reloading manuals for the bullet I intend to use. I don't approach max load. I periodically chronograph just so that I know what it produces.

I like to hunt. With a rifle. I "set up" a rifle for a particular species or for the largest meanest species I expect to encounter on that trip. Once the rifle is selected, then the R&D starts.

Brass - if you have once fired brass, then recondition the brass so that it ALL is full length resized; primer pocket uniformed, trimmed to the same length and polished. Hand prime with the same make/size primer.

For the species/purpose of the load, select three different bullet manufacturers.
Select the weight and style (for example 358 caliber 250 grains; accubond, A-Frame GSX, etc)
Select three different powder makers. (generally from what I have on hand) Select the "best" powder from each maker that is suitable for the bullets that you selected.
Select a powder load for each bullet.
Load 10 rounds.
That means that for each bullet maker/style/weight that you have 30 rounds. (358 swift A-Frame - 10 loaded with IMR 4350; 10 with RL-22 and 10 with Western Hunter) Do this for each of the other selected bullets.
BEWARE! you can end up with a LOT of ammo to test!

Go to the range with your chronograph, a notebook of your load data and a lot of patience. I check loads at 25 yards on a Leopold sight in target. (1' squares) 1 target for each load.

Chronograph each load. My chrony is old....about 35 years old.....and does not have the printer/computer interfaces that more modern chronys' have. However you do it, document the data and retrieve the target for evaluation.

When I am home, I review the data and the target. I am looking for a very consistent load that consistently produces velocity at or near what I expect from the data in the reloading manual with reasonable accuracy. CV numbers less than 1% are what I look for.

Once you find the load you like, then, if it is necessary, tweak it. I generally do not mess with bullet seating depth and SAAMI OAL dimensions. If the bullet has a cannalure, I'll seat to it and crimp if the caliber is heavy recoiling. If you tweak, chronograph

When I did R&D for my 416 Rigby, I tested 14 different bullet/powder combination before I found the ones I liked. (400 gr solid & 400 gr A-frame) Since the difference in point of impact at 100 yards was less than 1/4 inch I loaded 100 rounds A-frame for practice.

That is all!

Watch yer 6!
Dave Renn

F. Guffey · October 8, 2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

4) Test OAL and whether the bullet is contact with the rifling or not
5) Test the amount of crimp

I am the fan of the running start, I want my bullets to have the 'jump'.

I want all the bullet hold I can get, I do not crimp bottle neck cases.

I sort cases, when load testing I use different head stamps for different loads. After tumbling it is easy to get the cases back in the same box they came in. And weighing, the last chance to catch a mistake is before firing. If the bullet, case, powder and primer match weight the reloader should be able to determine if a mistake has been made.

I know of reloaders that got to the range with ammo that had had no powder in the case. Convincing them an improvement in their methods and or techniques could eliminate those type of mistakes.

F. Guffey

AllenJ · October 8, 2015, 09:12 AM

For my hunting rifles it's simple:

Pick a good bullet in a weight that matches the game I'll be seeking.
Load up test rounds going from minimum recommended load to max, at least three each (five each is better).
Shoot, watch for signs of over pressure and log group size.

For hunting rifles reliable feeding is a must so OAL is determined by magazine length for the most part. I've found that as long as I stay with the recommended powders changing has not made a huge difference in accuracy. Bullets however are a different story, if the rifle won't shoot one worth a darn I'll try another brand.

October 6, 2015, 06:44 PM	#1
ckpj99 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 386	Your testing protocol I'm interested in hearing your testing protocol for developing rounds. Obviously, there's ladder testing and all of that, but what about all the other variables. Personally, I'm all over the map when it gets past testing the charge of powder. In terms of OAL, distance from rifling to bullet and amount of crimp. I just try different things, but I think I'd really benefit from a system. So when you get a new gun and decide to reload for it, in what order do you do the follow (and where it applies, how do you do the tests): 1) Test different types bullets 2) Test different bullet weights 2) Test different powders 3) Test charge weights 4) Test OAL and whether the bullet is contact with the rifling or not 5) Test the amount of crimp Last edited by ckpj99; October 6, 2015 at 08:00 PM.

October 7, 2015, 12:57 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I reload primarily for handguns and shotguns.... For handguns, my system is pretty simple... a. I will test full range for powder listed from Min to Max..but depending on the powder... Min and Max may only be 0.3 or 0.4 gr apart...in some calibers. But yes, I will often test a 2nd or 3rd powder...before I settle on a load. I'm looking for accuracy primarily ...and performance in my handgun ammo so consistent velocity ...I don't care if a round is dirty, guns get cleaned after every range trip anyway ...but I try to avoid an overly dirty load. I've found loads in books ...that left a lot of unburnt powder..or were real smoky - so I move on from those. b. In 9mm, as an example - I will test ammo for 4 guns most of the time ...a 5" 1911, a 4" 1911, a Sig 226 ( their full sized double stack ), a Sig 239 ( single stack )....for feed reliability and accuracy and consistency --- but ultimately it comes down to if the load will work in all 4 guns ( overall length, accuracy, velocity and recoil differences ) ---- but 90% of my 9mm will be fired in my 5" full sized 1911 -- so it absolutely has to run 100% in that primary range gun --- but I'd like it to run in all of my 9mm's. c. I will test a variety of bullet weights ...(so again in 9mm....I will test 115gr FMJ, 124 gr FMJ and 147gr FMJ.../.. ( but I don't reload my Defensive Ammo ) ---- I reload my range ammo ...and ultimately in 9mm, I want the 115 gr FMJ bullet ( I use Montana Gold bullets exclusively ) to perform - and since the cost of the bullet makes up 60% or more of the cost of a reload..and the less a bullet weighs - the less we pay for it ...I'd rather shoot the 115 gr FMJ bullet in 9mm all things being equal. Yet I want a reloaded round, if I choose to carry that weapon -- that feels a lot like my primary carry round in that gun. d. I keep notes in a small spiral - bound notebook - when reloading or at range - that book stays in my range bag / and when reloading test ammo...shoot 3 rounds, make notes.../ book has tabs in it for each caliber --- 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 Mag and .44 Mag... --------- In .357 Mag as an example...I need the ammo to run in a variety of revolvers.... K frame S&W's from 2 1/2", 4" and 6" barrels / a Henry rifle in .357 Mag / and a single action 4 3/4" barrel Freedom Arms...--- I will only load a bullet with a cannelure on it / so I don't get any bullet movement in the case as the gun fires...or in the under barrel magazine of the rifle. Without cannelures ...bullets in revolvers tend to move forward a little ( almost like using a kinetic bullet puller as the gun is fired ). Accuracy is really important to me ...in a single action revolver...so I want to see really tight groups with a load for that gun. I'm a traditionalist in .357 Mag so I stay with 158gj JSP ( Montana Gold ) in that caliber.... In 9mm - I stay with 115 gr FMJ In .40 S&W ...I test 165gr FMJ & 180gr FMJ ..but I like 165gr FMJ In .45 acp .... I will only load a 230gr FMJ .38 spl and .357 Mag ... 158 gr JSP .44 Mag .... I will only load a 240gr JSP ============ In shotguns...I load 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 .... In all 4 cases, I primarily load for "pattern" effectiveness...no holes in the pattern big enough for a clay bird to fly thru.....so in a 12ga --- I may test 3/4 oz of shot, 7/8 oz, 1 oz and maybe 1 1/8 oz.../ and I will test 9's, 8's and 7 1/2's..../ I will test velocity as well....from 1150 fps - 1200 fps - 1225 fps - to about 1250 fps... I will test different "Hulls" .... WIN AA's, REM STS or Nitro primarily ...and I will test different primers...primers in shotshells are not universally interchangeable.../ in 28ga and .410 I will primarily use 9's.....but the load I like the most for all around shotgunning in a 12ga...for clays and live birds is 1 oz of 8's in a 12ga, REM STS Hull, Green Duster Wad at about 1225 fps...works on Skeet, Trap, Continental Trap, 5 Stand and Sporting Clays...and Upland Birds... I only have two semi- auto shotguns one in 12ga, one in 20ga / a pair of pump guns in 12ga and 20ga....../ the other 15 or so shotguns are all Over Unders...so getting a shell in or out of an O/U is not a big deal - but to make the shells run in a semi-auto or a pump gun...its primarily a proper "resizing issue" -- and a good crimp on the shell. The better shotshell loaders...MEC Grabber, MEC 9000 G or MEC 9000 HN ( which is what I use ) resize the brass base - and give a very good overall crimp. If I have shells with bad crimps, I shoot them anyway in my Over Unders...and then toss them into garbage. In most gagues...I get 15 or more reloads per hull... =========== I don't do much reloading for rifles...except my lever action Henry rifles in .357 Mag and .44 Mag... I have no interest in black rifles...and my Big Game hunting days are over... ============= Main point of my system.... a. Keep Notes in notebook ... b. Use a "Case Gague" for each caliber I'm loading ...rounds drop in and out easily - catch burrs on cases or small cracks that develop after bullets are seated. c. After I settle on a load for a caliber.... I buy components in "case lots" ...so if I settle on a 115 FMJ bullet from Montana Gold ....I will buy in cases of 4,000 bullets.../ same thing on my primary handgun powder...Hodgdon TiteGroup...I will buy it in 8 lb kegs ...or cases of ten 1 lb cans....when I need it / and on primers for handguns I use CCI primers...so I buy in cases of 5,000. d. Keep a log of what I'm loading ....( 9mm primary load right now... 115gr FMJ Montana Gold, 4.7gr TiteGroup...)/ label on every box - handrwritten to keep it easy ... date, 4.7 TG, 115gr MG...on each box. I use cheap file folder labels you can get at office supply place to label the boxes.../ permanent marker..../ in notebook I might say loaded 20 boxes 9mm, 115gr MG, 4.7 .../ if I had any issues with them, I'll note it when I'm at range....notebook stays in my range bag...../ but each box has its own label... =============== I don't know if any of this helps you ...its just how I approach trying different loads.....different components. Last edited by BigJimP; October 7, 2015 at 05:43 PM.

October 7, 2015, 09:08 PM	#5
DRenn Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Posts: 22	your test protocol For pistol - not much. Judicial use of reloading manuals for the bullet I intend to use. I don't approach max load. I periodically chronograph just so that I know what it produces. I like to hunt. With a rifle. I "set up" a rifle for a particular species or for the largest meanest species I expect to encounter on that trip. Once the rifle is selected, then the R&D starts. Brass - if you have once fired brass, then recondition the brass so that it ALL is full length resized; primer pocket uniformed, trimmed to the same length and polished. Hand prime with the same make/size primer. For the species/purpose of the load, select three different bullet manufacturers. Select the weight and style (for example 358 caliber 250 grains; accubond, A-Frame GSX, etc) Select three different powder makers. (generally from what I have on hand) Select the "best" powder from each maker that is suitable for the bullets that you selected. Select a powder load for each bullet. Load 10 rounds. That means that for each bullet maker/style/weight that you have 30 rounds. (358 swift A-Frame - 10 loaded with IMR 4350; 10 with RL-22 and 10 with Western Hunter) Do this for each of the other selected bullets. BEWARE! you can end up with a LOT of ammo to test! Go to the range with your chronograph, a notebook of your load data and a lot of patience. I check loads at 25 yards on a Leopold sight in target. (1' squares) 1 target for each load. Chronograph each load. My chrony is old....about 35 years old.....and does not have the printer/computer interfaces that more modern chronys' have. However you do it, document the data and retrieve the target for evaluation. When I am home, I review the data and the target. I am looking for a very consistent load that consistently produces velocity at or near what I expect from the data in the reloading manual with reasonable accuracy. CV numbers less than 1% are what I look for. Once you find the load you like, then, if it is necessary, tweak it. I generally do not mess with bullet seating depth and SAAMI OAL dimensions. If the bullet has a cannalure, I'll seat to it and crimp if the caliber is heavy recoiling. If you tweak, chronograph When I did R&D for my 416 Rigby, I tested 14 different bullet/powder combination before I found the ones I liked. (400 gr solid & 400 gr A-frame) Since the difference in point of impact at 100 yards was less than 1/4 inch I loaded 100 rounds A-frame for practice. That is all! Watch yer 6! Dave Renn

October 7, 2015, 12:16 PM	#2
ckpj99 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 386	Nobody? Almost a hundred views and no comments, weird.

October 7, 2015, 06:38 PM	#4
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	Assuming a bolt action rifle: 1) Test different types bullets Unlikely. Choose bullet on intended use, Match/Varmint/Hunting, etc. 2) Test different bullet weights Again, chosen based on intended use, but I tend to favor heavier for caliber. 2) Test different powders Possibly, but usually go with past experience and what I have on hand. In the past, for a case of about X capacity, I have had good luck with Powder Y, and I have several pounds of it, so that is what I use. Examples, for a .308 sized case my goto is IMR 4064, for .30-06 it is IMR 4350. 3) Test charge weights I normally do a few different things, I will either do a ladder test at 200 yards (the longest practical around here for a solid bench with a paper target). Or more likely load up a a few rounds at several charge weights, and go out and shoot groups. I usually go a half grain between charges (but may go as high as 1 grain for larger cases), and use 7 or 8 rounds per group. Even more rounds would be better, but using at least 7 reduces the chances of getting a fluke good group quite a bit. Not impossible, but very unlikely. There will usually be a group that is good enough for my needs, if not I will take the best and try to refine it a bit, going to .2 or .3 grain steps up and down from the best group. I don't normally start with the lowest published load, but start in the bottom third or so of the published range, and rarely bother with the max load. For example, most recently the published range for the bullet/powder I was using was 40.9 to 47.0 grains. My test loads started at 43 and stopped at 46. 4) Test OAL and whether the bullet is contact with the rifling or not Cut a slot in the neck of a case and use it as a simple OAL to the rifling gauge. Set my bullet seating die to that length, and give it a half turn in. If this is too long for the magazine in the rifle, load to max OAL for the magazine. Yes, I realize I am leaving some on the table here. I recheck the max OAL to the rifling periodically and adjust as needed as the throat wears away. 5) Test the amount of crimp I don't crimp for bolt guns. I realize this will not necessarily give me the best possible group for any given rifle, but perfect is the enemy of good, and it has always provided me with a load that is good enough for my needs, without spending too much time and barrel life screwing with variables trying to chase that last 1/8 to 1/4 inch in group size.

October 8, 2015, 09:12 AM	#7
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	For my hunting rifles it's simple: Pick a good bullet in a weight that matches the game I'll be seeking. Load up test rounds going from minimum recommended load to max, at least three each (five each is better). Shoot, watch for signs of over pressure and log group size. For hunting rifles reliable feeding is a must so OAL is determined by magazine length for the most part. I've found that as long as I stay with the recommended powders changing has not made a huge difference in accuracy. Bullets however are a different story, if the rifle won't shoot one worth a darn I'll try another brand.