Not impressed with F&M Reloading

TexasSeaRay · March 7, 2008, 11:27 AM

I put in an order two weeks ago. Got invoiced. Still haven't received my order.

Called them up. Haven't received my order because it hasn't shipped. Hasn't shipped because they haven't rounded everything up. Wasn't a big order in terms of number of pieces.

First problem.

Second problem came when I compared invoice prices against advertised prices on the website. I always do a "screen shot" of the page so if prices change, I know what the prices were on the day I ordered--and paid--for the merchandise.

On this order, my first attempt at doing business with F&M Reloading, the advertised price and the invoice price were off on over half of the order.

Third problem.

Zero communications. No e-mail confirmation of order received, delay in shipping, etc.

This has been the sorriest, lousiest experience I've ever had with online ordering to date.

In Midway's defense, they communicate well and fast, what you see is what you pay so far as price is concerned, and they answer e-mails. Three things F&M does not apparently do, at least based on my experience.

Ironically, I did get a response back from Midway while I was waiting on F&M to crap or get off the pot. And while I'm not enthused about the response, it was honest and you can't ask for anything more than that.

I do not foresee ever NOT shopping with Midway on a semi-regular basis simply because of their selection, inventory and service. But it pays to do large orders with MIdway when it comes to shipping. Only problem with that is the increasing "not in stock, backorder okay" status of so much of their stuff. Hoping that when their expansion project is finished, there will be less backorders.

On a positive note, Powder Valley is simply THE BEST online shopping experience I've had in the reloading world since Day One. I'm definitely planning an airplane trip up to Winfield to shop and meet these folks in person. Great prices, great service, fast shipping, excellent communications.

Jeff

bfox · March 7, 2008, 01:47 PM

I had a similar experience with them also .
Ordered several things and tacked on some targets
I saw on their site .

Nothing for about a month .
Called and the targets were on backorder, so they
didn't ship anything .

Funny reading this now because that experience was about
2 years ago . Needed another mold and thought I
would give them a try again .

If you want it Fast they seem like the wrong place to
order from .

Bill

CrustyFN · March 7, 2008, 04:50 PM

I have also had a great experience with Powder Valley. I can't believe how fast I get my orders. I am also happy with Graf's.
Rusty

UGH · March 7, 2008, 05:16 PM

I bought from them and the shipping time was a little longer but over all I saved enough to offset the longer shipping time.

mc223 · March 7, 2008, 05:17 PM

I just looked at the F&N website. Sorry, but they did not impress me at all.
Powder Valley has more than one brand of bullets.

CPTMurdoc30 · March 7, 2008, 05:19 PM

Never used them so I can not comment on F&M. But as far as powder valley I have only one beef. They tell you after they charge your card how much your shipping is. Other than that they are great. Midway is also good bu have the highest shipping out there. Mid South is also good but shipping is second only to Midway.

Another place I shope is Brunos Shooters supply. they are great with just about everything.

Red_Eagle · March 7, 2008, 05:30 PM

I placed an order with them this fall. A Lyman Crusher 2 for $71. Seemed like a good deal. A week goes by and I hadnt heard from them. So I call, and they tell me it's out of stock and wont be in for X amount of weeks, but they got a really nice Lee Classic cast for a few cents less. The Lee shows up 2 weeks later. I the mean time I'd ordered a set of Lee DELUXE rifle dies for 30-06. A week in to that they say its out of stock..."Lots of people have taken up reloading". Sure they have. Gets here 2 weeks later and my "DELUXE" set is just a neck die and a seater die. No FL die, no shell holder, no dipper or load data. Never dealing with these guys again. Not that impressed with Graf's either. I'll just be dealing with Midway, Midsouth, or Cabela's from now on.

Sevens · March 8, 2008, 01:40 AM

There was a thread on here about a month or 6 weeks ago about that place, and the experience was also not good.

These guys must not be very bright. People who order stuff online are obviously a little bit computer savvy. Most computer savvy reloaders do discuss their favorite hobby a bit... likely online.

dogfood · March 8, 2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

But as far as powder valley I have only one beef. They tell you after they charge your card how much your shipping is.

True ... but if you know what you want, you can email them ahead of time, and they will respond with the calculated shipping charge. Sure, it's a little bit of a pain ... but I've done it several times to ensure that I am within the HazMat limit. I have always heard back from them within 24 hours.

dogfood

grymster2007 · March 8, 2008, 09:41 AM

I buy a lot of stuff online and in my mind there is no excuse for not disclosing, before checkout, the total that will be charged. A prior email should not be required. There are a few other things that I think necessary and those include:

• Disclosing if the item is in stock, before adding to cart
• Immediate email confirmation of the order
• Providing the shipper’s tracking number in a timely fashion
• No spam subsequent to an order

**Shane Tuttle** · March 8, 2008, 11:18 AM

You had me thinking Midway until your last item, Grymster...

True, Midway does have higher shipping and their prices have been on the rise. But, I think it's across the board on that. I will still concede after these reasons, Midway is probably still the one of the highest prices overall. But, if it's just a few dollars higher on my order compared to other competitors, I'll still buy Midway.

My reason is that service means more to me than anything else with the exception of the quality of the product. Even at that, I sometimes rather have a good quality product with CS backing than the best product on the market and NO CS.

I'm not saying Midway is the end all, be all. Besides, they kinda rubbed me the wrong way when I called them up and said MidSouth had the Hornady LNL for $50 less and shipping was going to be cheaper. I asked if they would price match the product I would be happy to pay a bit more for shpping to do business with them. Needless to say, the rep responded with a gruff "We will not price match. The price you see is the price you pay". So, with that response, I replied "No sir, the price I see is the money you lose from a paying customer of 14 years. In the meantime, my money is going be sent to your competitor".

Guess I can't have my cake and eat it too...Wait a minute, I did. Got my press for less and found another place to buy stuff as well. Capitalism at its finest...

TexasSeaRay · March 8, 2008, 12:23 PM

Agreed.

My phone conversation with Midway yesterday, in a follow up to the e-mail letter, didn't go so well. I'm struggling with whether or not I want to continue to do business with them.

Time will tell, I suppose.

In the meantime, I just had an incredibly fruitful and satisfying experience with Midsouth. Never done business with them before. Why, I have no idea--given the rave reviews about them. I foresee Midsouth getting the lion's share of my future business.

I have no beef with Powder Valley's telling you after the order is completed what shipping charges will be. The young lady I spoke with on the phone gave me a over/under shipping estimate that was accurate to within a dollar.

I'd rather gamble a few dollars on over/under shipping than pay the FREAKING EXORBITANT SHIPPING FEES OF MIDWAY for which there is ZERO EXCUSE. Shipping departments should be zero-sum departments. They should not factor into part of the overall profit line. Shipping should be at cost, including cost of labor to operate shipping department.

Problem is when companies use shipping as part of their profit calculator. This is the number two reason I told Ebay to kiss my ass. Number one reason is their anti-gun crap policies. The "shipping and handling" fees charged by sellers on Ebay are often obscene. Won't pay 'em. Will do without or find another way to get what I need/want.

I also placed an order with Cabelas. Their prices shatter Midway's. Their shipping rates smoke Midway's. Plus, we have a Cabelas in Fort Worth that I pass on the way to our airplane hangar. I love the place--and love all the varied and different pro-gun and pro-hunting organizations they support.

Too bad for F&M Reloading. They could've had a lot of our business along with the business of my "student." But since half of the order was FOR my "student," he's not real happy with F&M Reloading and has been telling ALL of his online hunting and shooting buddies.

The old adage of "Happy and satisfied customers might pass their experience on to four or five people, but unhappy customers will pass their experience on to everyone they can" holds true today more than ever.

As Sevens so aply put it, you'd think they'd be smarter . . .

Jeff

grymster2007 · March 8, 2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

You had me thinking Midway until your last item, Grymster...

Well.... those are some of the more important criteria, but I realize that I can't always have them all.

**Shane Tuttle** · March 8, 2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Well.... those are some of the more important criteria, but I realize that I can't always have them all.

That's true. But I get tired of popups of "BizRate" ads right after my order. That bugs me. Believe me, I will still buy from Midway (for now). However, I will spend more time shopping around for better prices. And that means lower dollar orders for Midway, higher for others.

Sorry, SeaRay. Didn't mean to hijack your thread knowing it's about F&M, not Midway. Just been seeing the light since I read your other thread about Midway...

TexasSeaRay · March 8, 2008, 02:08 PM

No hijack worries from me whatsoever.

I had a lousy, pitiful experience with F&M and wanted to share it to hopefully spare anyone else from that same experience.

Good to share the top-shelf companies out there like Powder Valley, Midsouth, Cabelas, etc.

An informed buyer is a smart buyer.

Jeff

grymster2007 · March 8, 2008, 06:14 PM

Since the OP is not concerned with hijack, here's a little more on my online shopping experience:

Not for gun stuff, but a company that knows how to sell online is Amazon. I’m not a big fan of theirs and even boycotted them for a couple of years. I’m back now as a Prime member. $79 and for 12 months you get 2-day shipping on a million plus Amazon direct products at no charge. Upgrade to 1-day for between $2.99 and $4.99 (from what I’ve seen).

I'm in CA and they have a warehouse in Nevada (I think it's loading dock doors open into CA

) so they deliver quick and no sales tax.

They're prices are usually (not always) very good
They tell you if it’s in stock
They tell you what the shipping will cost (if it applies)
They provide immediate email confirmation
They provide tracking numbers in a timely manner
No spam…. yet

dogfood · March 9, 2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

I'd rather gamble a few dollars on over/under shipping than pay the FREAKING EXORBITANT SHIPPING FEES OF MIDWAY for which there is ZERO EXCUSE.

Sorry, TSR, but you are wrong on this one. There is a very good excuse. Larry Potterfield has to pay for his next safari to Africa.

One thing I really like about Cabela's: If you have multiple items on your buy list, but one of them is out of stock, they will back order it for you ... with no extra shipping cost to send it when it comes in. Midway will charge you extra for shipping separately - as if it's your fault they don't have the item in stock.

I just wish Cabela's had a wider selection of reloading stuff.

dogfood

March 7, 2008, 11:27 AM	#1
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Not impressed with F&M Reloading I put in an order two weeks ago. Got invoiced. Still haven't received my order. Called them up. Haven't received my order because it hasn't shipped. Hasn't shipped because they haven't rounded everything up. Wasn't a big order in terms of number of pieces. First problem. Second problem came when I compared invoice prices against advertised prices on the website. I always do a "screen shot" of the page so if prices change, I know what the prices were on the day I ordered--and paid--for the merchandise. On this order, my first attempt at doing business with F&M Reloading, the advertised price and the invoice price were off on over half of the order. Third problem. Zero communications. No e-mail confirmation of order received, delay in shipping, etc. This has been the sorriest, lousiest experience I've ever had with online ordering to date. In Midway's defense, they communicate well and fast, what you see is what you pay so far as price is concerned, and they answer e-mails. Three things F&M does not apparently do, at least based on my experience. Ironically, I did get a response back from Midway while I was waiting on F&M to crap or get off the pot. And while I'm not enthused about the response, it was honest and you can't ask for anything more than that. I do not foresee ever NOT shopping with Midway on a semi-regular basis simply because of their selection, inventory and service. But it pays to do large orders with MIdway when it comes to shipping. Only problem with that is the increasing "not in stock, backorder okay" status of so much of their stuff. Hoping that when their expansion project is finished, there will be less backorders. On a positive note, Powder Valley is simply THE BEST online shopping experience I've had in the reloading world since Day One. I'm definitely planning an airplane trip up to Winfield to shop and meet these folks in person. Great prices, great service, fast shipping, excellent communications. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

March 7, 2008, 04:50 PM	#3
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I have also had a great experience with Powder Valley. I can't believe how fast I get my orders. I am also happy with Graf's. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

March 7, 2008, 05:16 PM	#4
UGH Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Posts: 156	I bought from them and the shipping time was a little longer but over all I saved enough to offset the longer shipping time. __________________ If you liberals keep gettin' your way - we're all gonna hear one big loud flush. The sound of the U.S. of A. goin' straight down the toilet.- Archie Bunker............. Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth. George Washington

March 8, 2008, 01:40 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	There was a thread on here about a month or 6 weeks ago about that place, and the experience was also not good. These guys must not be very bright. People who order stuff online are obviously a little bit computer savvy. Most computer savvy reloaders do discuss their favorite hobby a bit... likely online. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 8, 2008, 09:41 AM	#10
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	I buy a lot of stuff online and in my mind there is no excuse for not disclosing, before checkout, the total that will be charged. A prior email should not be required. There are a few other things that I think necessary and those include: • Disclosing if the item is in stock, before adding to cart • Immediate email confirmation of the order • Providing the shipper’s tracking number in a timely fashion • No spam subsequent to an order __________________ grym

March 7, 2008, 01:47 PM	#2
bfox Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Pittsburgh (plum)Pa. Posts: 95	I had a similar experience with them also . Ordered several things and tacked on some targets I saw on their site . Nothing for about a month . Called and the targets were on backorder, so they didn't ship anything . Funny reading this now because that experience was about 2 years ago . Needed another mold and thought I would give them a try again . If you want it Fast they seem like the wrong place to order from . Bill

March 7, 2008, 05:17 PM	#5
mc223 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Location: n/w Wisconsin Posts: 365	I just looked at the F&N website. Sorry, but they did not impress me at all. Powder Valley has more than one brand of bullets.

March 7, 2008, 05:19 PM	#6
CPTMurdoc30 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: Stafford VA Posts: 969	Never used them so I can not comment on F&M. But as far as powder valley I have only one beef. They tell you after they charge your card how much your shipping is. Other than that they are great. Midway is also good bu have the highest shipping out there. Mid South is also good but shipping is second only to Midway. Another place I shope is Brunos Shooters supply. they are great with just about everything.

March 7, 2008, 05:30 PM	#7
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	I placed an order with them this fall. A Lyman Crusher 2 for $71. Seemed like a good deal. A week goes by and I hadnt heard from them. So I call, and they tell me it's out of stock and wont be in for X amount of weeks, but they got a really nice Lee Classic cast for a few cents less. The Lee shows up 2 weeks later. I the mean time I'd ordered a set of Lee DELUXE rifle dies for 30-06. A week in to that they say its out of stock..."Lots of people have taken up reloading". Sure they have. Gets here 2 weeks later and my "DELUXE" set is just a neck die and a seater die. No FL die, no shell holder, no dipper or load data. Never dealing with these guys again. Not that impressed with Graf's either. I'll just be dealing with Midway, Midsouth, or Cabela's from now on.

March 8, 2008, 11:18 AM	#11
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	You had me thinking Midway until your last item, Grymster... True, Midway does have higher shipping and their prices have been on the rise. But, I think it's across the board on that. I will still concede after these reasons, Midway is probably still the one of the highest prices overall. But, if it's just a few dollars higher on my order compared to other competitors, I'll still buy Midway. My reason is that service means more to me than anything else with the exception of the quality of the product. Even at that, I sometimes rather have a good quality product with CS backing than the best product on the market and NO CS. I'm not saying Midway is the end all, be all. Besides, they kinda rubbed me the wrong way when I called them up and said MidSouth had the Hornady LNL for $50 less and shipping was going to be cheaper. I asked if they would price match the product I would be happy to pay a bit more for shpping to do business with them. Needless to say, the rep responded with a gruff "We will not price match. The price you see is the price you pay". So, with that response, I replied "No sir, the price I see is the money you lose from a paying customer of 14 years. In the meantime, my money is going be sent to your competitor". Guess I can't have my cake and eat it too...Wait a minute, I did. Got my press for less and found another place to buy stuff as well. Capitalism at its finest... __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

March 8, 2008, 12:23 PM	#12
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Agreed. My phone conversation with Midway yesterday, in a follow up to the e-mail letter, didn't go so well. I'm struggling with whether or not I want to continue to do business with them. Time will tell, I suppose. In the meantime, I just had an incredibly fruitful and satisfying experience with Midsouth. Never done business with them before. Why, I have no idea--given the rave reviews about them. I foresee Midsouth getting the lion's share of my future business. I have no beef with Powder Valley's telling you after the order is completed what shipping charges will be. The young lady I spoke with on the phone gave me a over/under shipping estimate that was accurate to within a dollar. I'd rather gamble a few dollars on over/under shipping than pay the FREAKING EXORBITANT SHIPPING FEES OF MIDWAY for which there is ZERO EXCUSE. Shipping departments should be zero-sum departments. They should not factor into part of the overall profit line. Shipping should be at cost, including cost of labor to operate shipping department. Problem is when companies use shipping as part of their profit calculator. This is the number two reason I told Ebay to kiss my ass. Number one reason is their anti-gun crap policies. The "shipping and handling" fees charged by sellers on Ebay are often obscene. Won't pay 'em. Will do without or find another way to get what I need/want. I also placed an order with Cabelas. Their prices shatter Midway's. Their shipping rates smoke Midway's. Plus, we have a Cabelas in Fort Worth that I pass on the way to our airplane hangar. I love the place--and love all the varied and different pro-gun and pro-hunting organizations they support. Too bad for F&M Reloading. They could've had a lot of our business along with the business of my "student." But since half of the order was FOR my "student," he's not real happy with F&M Reloading and has been telling ALL of his online hunting and shooting buddies. The old adage of "Happy and satisfied customers might pass their experience on to four or five people, but unhappy customers will pass their experience on to everyone they can" holds true today more than ever. As Sevens so aply put it, you'd think they'd be smarter . . . Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

March 8, 2008, 02:08 PM	#15
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	No hijack worries from me whatsoever. I had a lousy, pitiful experience with F&M and wanted to share it to hopefully spare anyone else from that same experience. Good to share the top-shelf companies out there like Powder Valley, Midsouth, Cabelas, etc. An informed buyer is a smart buyer. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

March 8, 2008, 06:14 PM	#16
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	Since the OP is not concerned with hijack, here's a little more on my online shopping experience: Not for gun stuff, but a company that knows how to sell online is Amazon. I’m not a big fan of theirs and even boycotted them for a couple of years. I’m back now as a Prime member. $79 and for 12 months you get 2-day shipping on a million plus Amazon direct products at no charge. Upgrade to 1-day for between $2.99 and $4.99 (from what I’ve seen). I'm in CA and they have a warehouse in Nevada (I think it's loading dock doors open into CA ) so they deliver quick and no sales tax. They're prices are usually (not always) very good They tell you if it’s in stock They tell you what the shipping will cost (if it applies) They provide immediate email confirmation They provide tracking numbers in a timely manner No spam…. yet __________________ grym