very early Spencer rifle & serial number info needed

Magnum Wheel Man · April 1, 2014, 11:17 AM

my buddy has a 3 band army model Spencer, he's looking for info... very early serial # 127X caliber 56-56 gun is in original, but unshootable condition

he's looking for any info he can get on the rifle... any info, anyone might have would be helpful

where would this gun have been purchased ( there is no government inspector marks on the rifle )

when would it have been made / shipped, who could have used these early rifles???

anyone have any records or thoughts???

want to venture a guess as to value... chamber & bore are bad, but action functions

Magnum Wheel Man · April 1, 2014, 01:41 PM

I did some digging, & found conflicting data... one source, said these serial ranges went to 5th Michigan Cavalry ordered by Lt. Colonel Copeland, another said they went to 10 independent Companies of the Ohio sharp shooters, through Governor Todd

Magnum Wheel Man · April 1, 2014, 03:39 PM

just to let you guys know, I contacted John Beckendorf from the Spencer Collectors Association, & he forwarded on much info...

any others collect these rifles ???

Magnum Wheel Man · April 3, 2014, 02:46 PM

WOW... found out this was one of the famous Michigan 5th's... one of ( now ) 9 known to exist... fought at several battles in the civil war...

I just sent pictures to one of the guys from the Spencer collectors association...

here is one of the over all rifle... sorry for the poor picture, ( My lens fogged over, after bringing the camera in from the cold truck ) I noticed & cleaned the lens for the close ups...

here are a couple pictures for those that are unfamiliar...

James K · April 4, 2014, 02:43 PM

IMHO, that rifle saw service and the condition reflects that. It is a piece of history in a way no "mint unfired" rifle can be.

Jim

Magnum Wheel Man · April 4, 2014, 03:49 PM

the guy from the Spencer collectors association said that with that serial number, he's 100% sure it fought at Gettysburg with the MI 5th...

the coolest part of this part of this, is I got to handle it during pictures, taken for verification... you don't get the chance to do that at the museum

mete · April 5, 2014, 12:02 PM

Someone had been making reproductions of this gun .Are they still being made ?
Movie director John Milius made a for TV movie which showed a Spencer and an ammo box also ! Boxes that held various number of loades magazines were available .With a Spencer and box of 10 loaded magazines you were very well armed !!

Magnum Wheel Man · April 7, 2014, 06:55 AM

Rifle sold from one of my buddies to another, & the guy from the collectors association forwarded around the pictures over the weekend, & I had 3 offers on my e-mail when I got into work this morning... The new owner bought it more for an investment, but doesn't want to turn it right away... I offered to contact MRS cousin, whom I think would mortgage his farm to get one of these...

pretty cool rifle.... now has me wondering how it got to southern MN in the 1st place ???

Argyle · April 24, 2014, 01:02 PM

That's quite a find and story, I had a 3 bander for years, low serial number it was one of the few rifles I ever purchased that I sold for way more than I purchased it. Production of Spencers during the CW way out paced Henry's and at the end of the war they were in great surplus vs. the Henry. Spencers were a very rugged rifle.

Magnum Wheel Man · April 24, 2014, 01:22 PM

interesting thing, is my buddy that had it originally, is a retired tool & die guy... & he started & got quite a bit done on, 3 reproduction receivers, using this gun as a pattern... my buddy that bought it from him, is also a machinist, & he got the 3 receivers, & would like to finish them, when he gets closer to retiring...

there is a possibility down the road, that I might be able to get a reproduction in a more modern cartridge, that was built by a combination of two of my friends, based off of this rifle

csmsss · April 24, 2014, 01:32 PM

I would have been thrilled, as an infantryman in the Civil War, to be given a Spencer rifle or carbine.

Nlight1 · November 18, 2014, 08:39 AM

I recently acquired a spencer carbine model 1865. It was manufactured by burnside with a serial number 117xx. I would say the condition is 50%. Should i keep it as is or have it restored? If anything i would like to shoot it if reasonably possible but if not it would make a nice display piece in my office either way.

Jim Watson · November 18, 2014, 09:07 AM

Restoration of a period piece like that is a bad bet. It would be VERY expensive and the collectors would turn up their noses while they would have admired a 50% original.

There are Centerfire breechblocks and brass available.

Interesting old guns. A friend had an early one that was in the right range to have been on Wilder's Lightning Brigade raid into Tennessee.

Nlight1 · November 18, 2014, 09:09 PM

I've talked to several people now whom have a greater knowledge than i when it comes to firearms & they express the same thoughts. I'm not going to do a thing to it but possibly sell it or trade it.

James K · November 18, 2014, 10:50 PM

The ammo box Mete mentions was likely the Blakeslee box, which carried loaded tubes of cartridges for the Spencer. There is some question about how many were actually issued or used, but the inventor was no armchair solider. He was a Connecticut minister who joined the Union cavalry and fought in several important battles, eventually rising to the rank of Brigadier General.

Search on "Blakeslee cartridge box" and Erastus Blakeslee" for more info.

Jim

April 1, 2014, 11:17 AM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	very early Spencer rifle & serial number info needed my buddy has a 3 band army model Spencer, he's looking for info... very early serial # 127X caliber 56-56 gun is in original, but unshootable condition he's looking for any info he can get on the rifle... any info, anyone might have would be helpful where would this gun have been purchased ( there is no government inspector marks on the rifle ) when would it have been made / shipped, who could have used these early rifles??? anyone have any records or thoughts??? want to venture a guess as to value... chamber & bore are bad, but action functions __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; April 1, 2014 at 01:04 PM.

April 1, 2014, 01:41 PM	#2
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I did some digging, & found conflicting data... one source, said these serial ranges went to 5th Michigan Cavalry ordered by Lt. Colonel Copeland, another said they went to 10 independent Companies of the Ohio sharp shooters, through Governor Todd __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 1, 2014, 03:39 PM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	just to let you guys know, I contacted John Beckendorf from the Spencer Collectors Association, & he forwarded on much info... any others collect these rifles ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 4, 2014, 03:49 PM	#6
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	the guy from the Spencer collectors association said that with that serial number, he's 100% sure it fought at Gettysburg with the MI 5th... the coolest part of this part of this, is I got to handle it during pictures, taken for verification... you don't get the chance to do that at the museum __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 5, 2014, 12:02 PM	#7
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Someone had been making reproductions of this gun .Are they still being made ? Movie director John Milius made a for TV movie which showed a Spencer and an ammo box also ! Boxes that held various number of loades magazines were available .With a Spencer and box of 10 loaded magazines you were very well armed !! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

April 4, 2014, 02:43 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IMHO, that rifle saw service and the condition reflects that. It is a piece of history in a way no "mint unfired" rifle can be. Jim

April 7, 2014, 06:55 AM	#8
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Rifle sold from one of my buddies to another, & the guy from the collectors association forwarded around the pictures over the weekend, & I had 3 offers on my e-mail when I got into work this morning... The new owner bought it more for an investment, but doesn't want to turn it right away... I offered to contact MRS cousin, whom I think would mortgage his farm to get one of these... pretty cool rifle.... now has me wondering how it got to southern MN in the 1st place ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 24, 2014, 01:02 PM	#9
Argyle Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2014 Posts: 13	That's quite a find and story, I had a 3 bander for years, low serial number it was one of the few rifles I ever purchased that I sold for way more than I purchased it. Production of Spencers during the CW way out paced Henry's and at the end of the war they were in great surplus vs. the Henry. Spencers were a very rugged rifle.

April 24, 2014, 01:22 PM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	interesting thing, is my buddy that had it originally, is a retired tool & die guy... & he started & got quite a bit done on, 3 reproduction receivers, using this gun as a pattern... my buddy that bought it from him, is also a machinist, & he got the 3 receivers, & would like to finish them, when he gets closer to retiring... there is a possibility down the road, that I might be able to get a reproduction in a more modern cartridge, that was built by a combination of two of my friends, based off of this rifle __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 24, 2014, 01:32 PM	#11
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	I would have been thrilled, as an infantryman in the Civil War, to be given a Spencer rifle or carbine.

November 18, 2014, 08:39 AM	#12
Nlight1 Member Join Date: June 19, 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 89	I recently acquired a spencer carbine model 1865. It was manufactured by burnside with a serial number 117xx. I would say the condition is 50%. Should i keep it as is or have it restored? If anything i would like to shoot it if reasonably possible but if not it would make a nice display piece in my office either way.

November 18, 2014, 09:07 AM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,557	Restoration of a period piece like that is a bad bet. It would be VERY expensive and the collectors would turn up their noses while they would have admired a 50% original. There are Centerfire breechblocks and brass available. Interesting old guns. A friend had an early one that was in the right range to have been on Wilder's Lightning Brigade raid into Tennessee.

November 18, 2014, 09:09 PM	#14
Nlight1 Member Join Date: June 19, 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 89	I've talked to several people now whom have a greater knowledge than i when it comes to firearms & they express the same thoughts. I'm not going to do a thing to it but possibly sell it or trade it.

November 18, 2014, 10:50 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The ammo box Mete mentions was likely the Blakeslee box, which carried loaded tubes of cartridges for the Spencer. There is some question about how many were actually issued or used, but the inventor was no armchair solider. He was a Connecticut minister who joined the Union cavalry and fought in several important battles, eventually rising to the rank of Brigadier General. Search on "Blakeslee cartridge box" and Erastus Blakeslee" for more info. Jim