H-Varget or Varget

Bobrm2 · May 8, 2011, 07:21 PM

My various manuals lists Varget or H Varget. Are they both made by Hodgon and is there a difference? H Varget uses a starting load of 47 grains while 49 is the beginning load for Varget. Just rebuilt a 1903 Springfield with a serial number 626xxx. It's be fired since the 1st WW so I don't think there is a pressure. Just doing it right. Thanks

Bob R

GeauxTide · May 8, 2011, 07:26 PM

Varget is only made by Hodgdon.

Marco Califo · May 8, 2011, 07:40 PM

They are one and the same powder. Varget is Varget. It is made by Hodgdon. When a manual lists H Varget, they mean Hodgdon's Varget.

solvability · May 8, 2011, 07:45 PM

Just FYI - Varget is a Hogdon brand name for a standard Australian powder it is sold by Hogdon but not made by Hogdon (if they make anything at all).

NWPilgrim · May 8, 2011, 07:52 PM

Different manuals list different loads based on using different bullets, primers, cases, and test chamber/rifle. Pick one closest to your components and begin with starting loads.

Varget is a great powder, especially for medium loads used in M1 Garands or older rifles (150 gr - 168 gr bullets). H4895 is a versatile powder especially for reduced loads. Both seem pretty consistent and reliable.

Slower powders are probably better for heavier bullets, or faster velocities, but I don't load for them.

Marco Califo · May 8, 2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Just FYI - Varget is a Hogdon brand name for a standard Australian powder it is sold by Hogdon but not made by Hogdon (if they make anything at all).

I checked my Varget, and yes, it does say made in Australia.
My Hodgdon H335 says Made in USA.

So what is the story about Varget in OZ? Is it the standard 308 powder?

Loader9 · May 8, 2011, 08:30 PM

There is only one Varget and it is made by ADI for Hodgdon. If you want load data directly from ADI:
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/

ADI makes and sells Varget under their own name as A2208. ADI also makes several other powders for Hodgdon like Clays, H4198, H4895, H4350,etc- 14 in all of the Hodgdon powders are made by ADI.

NWPilgrim · May 8, 2011, 09:41 PM

I question if AR2208 (didn't see an A2208 powder listed) is the same as Varget sold by Hodgdon:

Quote:

A useful fine grained medium/slow burning rifle powder for medium sized cartridges such as .308 Winchester and 25-06. Its burning rate is close to that of IMR 4064 but its bulk density is higher.

I would not call Varget "fine grained". I'd use the Hodgdon data for Varget rather than the ADI data for what may or may not be the same powder.

Marco Califo · May 8, 2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

I'd use the Hodgdon data for Varget rather than the ADI data for what may or may not be the same powder.

Well, out of curiosity, I checked for 308, 175 g bullets.

They both say 45.0 g C at 2690 fps. So then, clearly, it is six one-way, and a half-dozen the other!

Scorch · May 8, 2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Just rebuilt a 1903 Springfield with a serial number 626xxx. It's be fired since the 1st WW so I don't think there is a pressure. Just doing it right.

The other posters have answered your question regarding Varget. My concern is about the 1903 rifle you are planning on using this ammo in. That serial number appears to be one of the suspect "low serial number" Springfields. If so, do not shoot it, it may damage you.

Bobrm2 · May 8, 2011, 10:11 PM

Thanks to all, and to Loader 9, for the link. Also, the caution about using the US vs AU load data. It seems the the AU loads begin at 47 grain not 49 I read somewhere. I backed off 10% and first load was around 44 grains. My load data is outside. That figure (44 grains). Since I'm loading just to have a working 1903, I'll stay with 150 Hornady and 49 to 50 grains of Varget.

This rifle is a reminded of the one my Gran dad let me drag around in the early 1950's. It brings back a lot of great memories. Too bad we can't go back to those time, even if just for a little while.

Bob R

Marco Califo · May 8, 2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

I would not call Varget "fine grained".

Ditto. It is cylindrical, IMR type pellets. Small, but not fine grained, not by US standards. I would even say it is large compared to AA2230-C.

Bobrm2 · May 8, 2011, 11:28 PM

Scorch,
It was this concern that was the cause of my original post. First shot out of the barrel was 44grains of Varget behind a Hornady 150 grain. The receiver had and now has been fired, who knows how many times. xSome caution is to be exercised, thus I have made it a rule with this rifle that NO heavy charges will be loaded/shot from this piece. I have no intent of firing anything other than original military loads. 147 - 150 grain bullets, with a powder charge not to exceed 51 grains. Not every receiver from 800,000 down was over fired and thus brittle. This one may be and I bear this in mind. I suppose that discussions about the manufacturing of the Rock Island 1903 have gone on ad infinitum, but I am most interested if someone has links or information concerning this, particularly how many cracked receivers were located. Certainly I have never heard of a total recall of the 800,000 that were suspected of being damaged in the heat treating process. Thank you for giving me and everyone else with an interest in this old line of firearms a heads up.

Bob R.

Rifletom · May 9, 2011, 10:19 PM

solvability,
Hodgdon does make one thing: a lot of money

Slamfire · May 11, 2011, 10:36 AM

I am not a fan of these early receivers and have commented on them in a number of threads. The blow up pictures are always interesting.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat

All of these early, almost "pre history" rifles, whether they be US or European are made of plain carbon steels made under primitive process controls. Modern actions are much safer just due to the better metals. The Springfield action has almost no shooter protection features, the 98 Mauser a lot, and people have been hurt when case heads blow in 03's. If you look at the picture of the one that frag'd when the case head blew, I don't think anyone wants to be behind one when that happens.

If you accept the risk, and don't complain if you end up missing an eyeball, then only load mid level to light loads, using the best brass. Period loads pushed a 150 gr bullet at 2700 fps, the 174 grain bullet went 2650 fps. These loads are closer to 40K psia than 50 K psia. These are not magnum loads by today's standards.

Still, these old receivers have been known to break without warning. Things from that era are not predictable. Always wear your shooting glasses. Just in case.

May 8, 2011, 07:21 PM	#1
Bobrm2 Member Join Date: July 18, 2009 Location: Searcy Co. Arkansas Posts: 24	H-Varget or Varget My various manuals lists Varget or H Varget. Are they both made by Hodgon and is there a difference? H Varget uses a starting load of 47 grains while 49 is the beginning load for Varget. Just rebuilt a 1903 Springfield with a serial number 626xxx. It's be fired since the 1st WW so I don't think there is a pressure. Just doing it right. Thanks Bob R

May 8, 2011, 07:40 PM	#3
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,602	One and the same powder. They are one and the same powder. Varget is Varget. It is made by Hodgdon. When a manual lists H Varget, they mean Hodgdon's Varget. __________________ ............

May 8, 2011, 07:52 PM	#5
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Different manuals list different loads based on using different bullets, primers, cases, and test chamber/rifle. Pick one closest to your components and begin with starting loads. Varget is a great powder, especially for medium loads used in M1 Garands or older rifles (150 gr - 168 gr bullets). H4895 is a versatile powder especially for reduced loads. Both seem pretty consistent and reliable. Slower powders are probably better for heavier bullets, or faster velocities, but I don't load for them. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

May 8, 2011, 10:11 PM	#11
Bobrm2 Member Join Date: July 18, 2009 Location: Searcy Co. Arkansas Posts: 24	H-Varget or Varget Thanks to all, and to Loader 9, for the link. Also, the caution about using the US vs AU load data. It seems the the AU loads begin at 47 grain not 49 I read somewhere. I backed off 10% and first load was around 44 grains. My load data is outside. That figure (44 grains). Since I'm loading just to have a working 1903, I'll stay with 150 Hornady and 49 to 50 grains of Varget. This rifle is a reminded of the one my Gran dad let me drag around in the early 1950's. It brings back a lot of great memories. Too bad we can't go back to those time, even if just for a little while. Bob R

May 8, 2011, 11:28 PM	#13
Bobrm2 Member Join Date: July 18, 2009 Location: Searcy Co. Arkansas Posts: 24	H-Varget Varget Scorch, It was this concern that was the cause of my original post. First shot out of the barrel was 44grains of Varget behind a Hornady 150 grain. The receiver had and now has been fired, who knows how many times. xSome caution is to be exercised, thus I have made it a rule with this rifle that NO heavy charges will be loaded/shot from this piece. I have no intent of firing anything other than original military loads. 147 - 150 grain bullets, with a powder charge not to exceed 51 grains. Not every receiver from 800,000 down was over fired and thus brittle. This one may be and I bear this in mind. I suppose that discussions about the manufacturing of the Rock Island 1903 have gone on ad infinitum, but I am most interested if someone has links or information concerning this, particularly how many cracked receivers were located. Certainly I have never heard of a total recall of the 800,000 that were suspected of being damaged in the heat treating process. Thank you for giving me and everyone else with an interest in this old line of firearms a heads up. Bob R.

May 8, 2011, 07:26 PM	#2
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,426	Varget is only made by Hodgdon.

May 8, 2011, 07:45 PM	#4
solvability Member Join Date: March 5, 2005 Location: HSV Posts: 98	Just FYI - Varget is a Hogdon brand name for a standard Australian powder it is sold by Hogdon but not made by Hogdon (if they make anything at all).

May 8, 2011, 08:30 PM	#7
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	There is only one Varget and it is made by ADI for Hodgdon. If you want load data directly from ADI: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/ ADI makes and sells Varget under their own name as A2208. ADI also makes several other powders for Hodgdon like Clays, H4198, H4895, H4350,etc- 14 in all of the Hodgdon powders are made by ADI.

May 9, 2011, 10:19 PM	#14
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	solvability, Hodgdon does make one thing: a lot of money

May 11, 2011, 10:36 AM	#15
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I am not a fan of these early receivers and have commented on them in a number of threads. The blow up pictures are always interesting. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...gle+heat+treat All of these early, almost "pre history" rifles, whether they be US or European are made of plain carbon steels made under primitive process controls. Modern actions are much safer just due to the better metals. The Springfield action has almost no shooter protection features, the 98 Mauser a lot, and people have been hurt when case heads blow in 03's. If you look at the picture of the one that frag'd when the case head blew, I don't think anyone wants to be behind one when that happens. If you accept the risk, and don't complain if you end up missing an eyeball, then only load mid level to light loads, using the best brass. Period loads pushed a 150 gr bullet at 2700 fps, the 174 grain bullet went 2650 fps. These loads are closer to 40K psia than 50 K psia. These are not magnum loads by today's standards. Still, these old receivers have been known to break without warning. Things from that era are not predictable. Always wear your shooting glasses. Just in case. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.