Browning Designs?

Coronach · February 10, 2001, 12:18 PM

Which of the shotgun designs on the market are John Browning designs? What about rifles? (yeah, LOTS of answers there...perhaps aiming me to a website is better than typing them all in?)

just curious,
Mike

Hard Ball · February 10, 2001, 01:01 PM

Wel, for starters, the Winchester Model 1894 rifle and its cartridge. More than 100 years old and still in production!

Dave McC · February 10, 2001, 02:53 PM

97 Winchester, and the Model 12, to some extent. The Ithaca Model 37, the Remington pump that shared patents with the 870,the Auto 5 and the O/Us made by Browning, the GM 45 ACP,
the High Power, the various 22 autos, including the High Standard, the Woodsman,and....

Ma Deuce, the best heavy machine gun ever made....

JMB was to gun design as Michaelangelo was to chapel ceilings....

Badger Arms · February 10, 2001, 04:48 PM

Browning Superposed. Winchester 1887.

Coronach · February 10, 2001, 10:31 PM

How much of browning's (the company's) current line-up are actual JMBrowning designs, or close descendants thereof? And how close is the Rem 870?

Thanks again,
Mike

Coronach · February 12, 2001, 01:18 AM

870? Can it be considered a JMB design? I've heard ppl say yes and no.

How much of the current Browning company's lineup are true JMB designs? (Yeah, the HP is. I know that

)

Thanks,
Mike

Dave McC · February 12, 2001, 05:02 AM

As I understand it, The Remington model 10 and the 870 have the same patents, first held by JMB.

One key factor in all of JMB's designs is overbuilding. Look at the carrier in an A-5. That's classic JMB. All machined, all dependent on tight tolerances, all super strong and long lived.

Al Thompson · February 12, 2001, 08:18 AM

Transfering to Harley Nolen's forum.

Giz

Coronach · February 13, 2001, 12:53 PM

Since the 870 question was answered (thanks!), how much of the Browning company's current product line can be correctly considered to be JMB designs, or close descendants/variants thereof?

BHP...what else? BPS? The current incarnation of the BAR? The A-bolt?

Thanks,
Mike

James K · February 13, 2001, 03:53 PM

Hi, guys,

Let's see.

The Remington Model 11 shotgun is simply the Auto 5 licensed to Remington, so both are Browning designs. The Remington slide actions (10, 17, 29, 31) were Pedersen designs and not Browning. The 870 and 1100 are new designs (post WWII) and owe nothing to either man.

The Winchester 1893 and 1897 shotguns are Browning, but the Model 12 is not; it was designed by T.C. Johnson, who also designed the Winchester self loading rifles and the Winchester Model 11 autoloading shotgun.

Browning designed both the .30 and .50 machineguns, as well as the light machinegun called the Browning Automatic Rifle. The current sporting "BAR" has nothing in common with the military BAR, and is not a Browning design.

Browning did the initial work on the High Power, but died before the design was finished. FN designers finished up. Browning also designed all the other pre-WWII FN auto pistols and Colt auto pistols.

Jim

Coronach · February 13, 2001, 11:32 PM

Thats the info I 'needed.'

Mike

**Mike Irwin** · February 15, 2001, 01:46 AM

A few other JMB designs have been in and out of production over the past couple of years, too, such as the Models 1886 and 1895 Winchesters and the Baby Browning.

The BAR is also back in production, but in semi-auto form.

Coronach · February 15, 2001, 12:05 PM

I assume you mean the military BAR, not the BAR sold by Browning? Where is this being sold?

Mike

James K · February 15, 2001, 11:05 PM

A company in Ohio is manufacturing a closed bolt semi-auto lookalike to the military BAR. It uses some GI parts, but the receiver and trigger housing are both entirely redesigned, and it uses a hammer. I don't have the name of the outfit at hand, perhaps someone else can help. They are right salty, I think $2400.

Jim

BigG · February 16, 2001, 11:03 AM

In "Hatcher's Notebook," St. J. M. Browning is quoted as mentioning a great admiration for Pedersen, who designed quite a few firearms for Rem UMC way back when.

February 10, 2001, 12:18 PM	#1
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Which of the shotgun designs on the market are John Browning designs? What about rifles? (yeah, LOTS of answers there...perhaps aiming me to a website is better than typing them all in?) just curious, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 10, 2001, 10:31 PM	#5
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Thanks... How much of browning's (the company's) current line-up are actual JMBrowning designs, or close descendants thereof? And how close is the Rem 870? Thanks again, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 12, 2001, 01:18 AM	#6
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	BTTT 870? Can it be considered a JMB design? I've heard ppl say yes and no. How much of the current Browning company's lineup are true JMB designs? (Yeah, the HP is. I know that ) Thanks, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 12, 2001, 08:18 AM	#8
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Transfering to Harley Nolen's forum. Giz __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

February 13, 2001, 12:53 PM	#9
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	BTTT? Since the 870 question was answered (thanks!), how much of the Browning company's current product line can be correctly considered to be JMB designs, or close descendants/variants thereof? BHP...what else? BPS? The current incarnation of the BAR? The A-bolt? Thanks, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 10, 2001, 01:01 PM	#2
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Wel, for starters, the Winchester Model 1894 rifle and its cartridge. More than 100 years old and still in production!

February 10, 2001, 02:53 PM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	97 Winchester, and the Model 12, to some extent. The Ithaca Model 37, the Remington pump that shared patents with the 870,the Auto 5 and the O/Us made by Browning, the GM 45 ACP, the High Power, the various 22 autos, including the High Standard, the Woodsman,and.... Ma Deuce, the best heavy machine gun ever made.... JMB was to gun design as Michaelangelo was to chapel ceilings....

February 10, 2001, 04:48 PM	#4
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	Browning Superposed. Winchester 1887.

February 12, 2001, 05:02 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	As I understand it, The Remington model 10 and the 870 have the same patents, first held by JMB. One key factor in all of JMB's designs is overbuilding. Look at the carrier in an A-5. That's classic JMB. All machined, all dependent on tight tolerances, all super strong and long lived.

February 13, 2001, 03:53 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, guys, Let's see. The Remington Model 11 shotgun is simply the Auto 5 licensed to Remington, so both are Browning designs. The Remington slide actions (10, 17, 29, 31) were Pedersen designs and not Browning. The 870 and 1100 are new designs (post WWII) and owe nothing to either man. The Winchester 1893 and 1897 shotguns are Browning, but the Model 12 is not; it was designed by T.C. Johnson, who also designed the Winchester self loading rifles and the Winchester Model 11 autoloading shotgun. Browning designed both the .30 and .50 machineguns, as well as the light machinegun called the Browning Automatic Rifle. The current sporting "BAR" has nothing in common with the military BAR, and is not a Browning design. Browning did the initial work on the High Power, but died before the design was finished. FN designers finished up. Browning also designed all the other pre-WWII FN auto pistols and Colt auto pistols. Jim

February 13, 2001, 11:32 PM	#11
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Thanks Thats the info I 'needed.' Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 15, 2001, 01:46 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,391	A few other JMB designs have been in and out of production over the past couple of years, too, such as the Models 1886 and 1895 Winchesters and the Baby Browning. The BAR is also back in production, but in semi-auto form. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 15, 2001, 12:05 PM	#13
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	I assume you mean the military BAR, not the BAR sold by Browning? Where is this being sold? Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 15, 2001, 11:05 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A company in Ohio is manufacturing a closed bolt semi-auto lookalike to the military BAR. It uses some GI parts, but the receiver and trigger housing are both entirely redesigned, and it uses a hammer. I don't have the name of the outfit at hand, perhaps someone else can help. They are right salty, I think $2400. Jim

February 16, 2001, 11:03 AM	#15
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Noting the mention of Pedersen... In "Hatcher's Notebook," St. J. M. Browning is quoted as mentioning a great admiration for Pedersen, who designed quite a few firearms for Rem UMC way back when. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC