AR-15 Grip Screw Issue

[Departed402]

I recently purchased a Daniel Defense V5 LW (free-float quad rail with 16” light barrel). I hadn’t had a chance to take it to the range, but being a lefty I decided to put some aftermarket parts on it to make if more lefty-friendly. One of these parts was an ambidextrous safety. I had swapped out my friend’s A2 grip for a Magpul grip, and messing with the safety was only one step further, so I figured I knew what to do, but I watched a guy on YouTube install the same part to be sure. It was to go as I expected. So the first step is removing the pistol grip. Simple, right? Wrong! I went about trying to unscrew the pistol grip screw, and it wouldn’t budge. I used a pair of pliers and a screwdriver, and I got it to turn about an eighth turn. Already, I had marred up the screw head, and the screw hadn’t broken free. It was still stuck. Go ahead and look at attachment #1. I checked the owner’s manual to make sure it’s not reverse threaded or had any hidden set screws holding it, and it said nothing about it, so I assume it’s normal. So I cranked on it some more, got it to a quarter turn, and… look at attachment #2. It still wasn’t broke free, and by this time I was very concerned. I looked around online, and I could find nothing like this. Flabbergasted, I took the lower to my LGS to have the smith take a look. He said, “Well, you just unscrew it,” as if I hadn’t tried that. He cranked on it with pliers and a screwdriver that filled the slot both length and width-wise, and see attachment #3. The smith concluded something was definitely wrong.

With the screw head pulverized, I called Daniel Defense. I spoke with a nice woman (Caroline, maybe? I’m not good with names) on the phone. She didn’t offer a definite reason for the issue other that it must not be built to spec, but in less than 4 minutes she told me she would be emailing me a UPS shipping label. She said they will take a look, and decide if it can be repaired or if it needed to be replaced. She said they warrant the gun for defects for the original owner (which I am), but she didn’t require any sort of proof of original ownership. I even asked if she needed any proof, and she said no. So there is a silver lining if you bought a DDM4 used.

As requested, I have shipped the whole rifle off to Daniel Defense. This screw issue has been rather disconcerting, especially since I have only ever heard good things about Daniel Defense. Obviously, I prefer to not have to experience any company’s customer service, but here we are! Feel free to ask questions, and I’ll update this thread in the future to let you know how this goes.

[Destructo6]

Sounds like somebody loctite'd it in place. Shouldn't it also have a star style lock washer?

[G.barnes]

I have a DD and the grip screws are in there. I believe they did put some loctite on it. It take a large flathead that you can put a box end wrench on. Once you started to tear up the slot it was over. Not to sound rude but most problems come from people without the proper knowledge and tools watching youtube videos.

[WWWJD]

Lefty Tighty Loosey Righty... right?

[trg42wraglefragle]

Flat head screws are the bane of my existence, with any screw you need to use the right sized screw driver to not wear the head out, but especially so with flat heads, as it easy to not use the right screw driver.

Get a good set of screw drivers or bits in lots of different sizes and you will avoid doing this again.

Oh and pliers or vice grips should be very very last resort and usually only when the head is completely stripped out.

[Ibmikey]

The selector lever is easily removed/replaced with the grip intact.

[Roughedge]

I have two large screwdrivers that I ground just for grip and stock screws. If the driver had filled the slot it shouldnt have broke out.

[Ridge_Runner_5]

The selector lever is easily removed/replaced with the grip intact.

How? The selector is held in place by a detent held in place by the grip.

[Ibmikey]

Turn the selector half way between safe and fire, with a non marring punch strike the right side and the lever will move over the detent and out. To replace use a small flat blade screwdriver on the detent and push the lever in. This is a really easy procedure that takes but a moment.

[Palmetto-Pride]

A few things

1. I cant beleive DD still uses flat head screws on the grip.
2. Why the hell did they put it in there so tight and or use loctite that is not needed.
3. Since your replacing the grip anyway I would have cut it as close as I could to the screw and used some locking pliers to get it off.

[bedlamite]

That ought to fix it.

[Brotherbadger]

Sounds like loctite to me.

[Mobuck]

"Turn the selector half way between safe and fire, with a non marring punch strike the right side and the lever will move over the detent and out"

And THAT folks is how you bust a chunk out of your lower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Initial problem with OP was incorrect sized screwdriver and lack of solid support of lower during first attempt to remove. Just my opinion.

[Corrections Cop]

This makes me glad that my bushmaster came with an Allen head grip screw. It made changing my grip a breeze. I would go to the hardware store / home depot ect and get a an Allen Head screw when you finely get the flat head screw out, and replace it with that. The Magpul grip I switched my stock one with had a flat head screw that came with it and I opted to keep the Allen Screw after reading this post.

[Ibmikey]

Mobuck, your comment is stupid, it takes just a tap on the punch and ithe detent rides over steel without stressing any other parts. This is a common procedure in military armories and broken receivers just do not happen. Try the procedure before making unsubstantiated remarks.

[Departed402]

I got the rifle back yesterday. According to an email I got from DD they got the old screw out, "tap[ped] the hole to properly accept threading," and put on a new screw and washer.

I would love to tell you more, but there is another pending issue. More to come later!

[Mobuck]

Try the procedure before making unsubstantiated remarks.
Ibmikey is offline Report Post



Ib, I'll stick to removing the grip and detent. I stand by my comment regardless of your "obvious expertise". No need to get personal so I'll let your gouge pass w/o response.

[Powderman]

Mobuck, your comment is stupid, it takes just a tap on the punch and ithe detent rides over steel without stressing any other parts. This is a common procedure in military armories and broken receivers just do not happen. Try the procedure before making unsubstantiated remarks.

Not in any disassembly procedure that I have ever heard of.

This would include:
THREE military arms rooms;
TWO Police Departments as an armorer;
TWO basic Colt AR15 Armorer's classes; (factory approved)
ONE advanced Colt AR15 Armorer's class (factory approved)
ONE business of my own as a general gunsmith, and

37 YEARS experience working on the AR-series platform.

The proper disassembly would include: clearing the rifle, separating the upper and lower receiver groups, removing the hammer pin, hammer and spring, then unscrewing the grip screw. With the lower receiver upside down, carefully remove the screw, and then the detent spring. Turn the receiver group right side up with your hand cupped over the detent hole, and catch the detent (known affectionately as the "bullet pin"). Now, remove the selector lever.

[odugrad]

Here's a question about grips and warranties... Does changing the grip void your warranty?

Just curious since you'd be putting "aftermarket" accessories on the rifle.

[Ridge_Runner_5]

It should not. They'd have to prove it broke something. And anything that it breaks can be replaced for a dollar or less.

[G.barnes]

DD states in their warranty they state its void if you correctly or incorrectly change any parts on the rifle. That doesn't mean they won't take care of it just that they don't have to. I'm sure it is better for them to fix it and have him brag about how great they took care of him than to save a few bucks and make him pay for it.

[44 AMP]

US Army MOS 45B20 (Small arms repairman) 75-78.

it takes just a tap on the punch and ithe detent rides over steel without stressing any other parts. This is a common procedure in military armories ..

NEVER saw, or heard of anyone doing it that way.

[shuvelrider]

Powderman has it right on the dissasembly. The 45B MOS is now called 91F, I'm sitting in the school currently to learn it. We just did the M16 series weapons, the take-apart procedure is as Powderman stated for the safety detent. As a firearm enthusiast, I stress to all to buy yourself a set of decent machinist driver bits, hollow ground screwdrivers, small brass tapping hammer, and pin punches. It really does make this work so much easier.

[Departed402]

My apologies on breathing life back into this thread so late, but I have received some private messages about this so I'll go ahead and put some closure to it for people who might stumble upon it on Google. Since I was asked in a private message I'll go ahead and state that the furniture on my Daniel Defense rifle was their newer furniture that DD switched to after they stopped putting Magpul furniture on their guns.

My rifle left with a pulverized grip screw. The Daniel Defense Customer Service Rep, Caroline, mentioned that I could send along my ambi-safety, and that the smiths at Daniel Defense might install it for me. I received an email from Caroline, in which she explained that they had fixed the problem, and that removing the grip screw to install the ambi-safety would no longer be an issue.

When I got the rifle back it looked brand new (which it basically was anyway), and it had a new grip screw. There was a problem, however; my ambi-safety was not installed, nor did it make the return trip from the factory. Either the ambi-safety was missed in the packaging I sent it in, or someone at DD got a free ambi-safety. I emailed Caroline about the issue. She apologized for the problem, and they bought me the same $50 ambi-safety, which was mailed to me. The grip screw came out as you would usually expect, and I was able to install the safety without issue.

Since these events I've become a certified AR-15/M16 armorer. Not that that makes me an end-all expert, but I would conclude that either the screw/hole was out of spec, or (more likely) someone at Daniel Denfense put red loctite or some other glue on the screw during installation. Why anyone would do the latter is beyond me.

In conclusion, while I would rather not have had this experience, Daniel Defense's customer service is excellent. Despite the fact DD puts disclaimers on their website saying the won't warrant damage due to the installation of aftermarket parts, they did anyway without inquisition, and I didn't pay a dime. (Granted all I had done was attempt to remove a factory part up to that point.) Caroline was fantastic to deal with, and my rifle has run like a champ, without fail since I bought it.

[Mobuck]

"someone at Daniel Denfense put red loctite or some other glue on the screw during installation. Why anyone would do the latter is beyond me"

Under certain circumstances, dis-similar metals can oxidize and "lock" themselves together in a virtually unbreakable bond. Maybe a sweaty finger left some residue on the screw which exacerbated this condition. I've seen this happen(the sweaty finger residue factor) on steel screws in aluminum engine parts.