Cartridge ID

PAHOGHUNTER · September 25, 2006, 02:23 PM

I recently purchased this unusual looking cartridge, and am trying to ID it, it is rimmed and rimfire. The case appears to be made of copper, and is approx. 1.5 inches long, OAL is 2.2 inches, the bullet dia. is about .420, rim dia. approx. .625. And has a capital U stamped on the head, which I assume stands for Union Metallic? Doing some research it looks a lot like the Swiss 10.4X38, an old military round, but I'm not sure? I thought possibly some of the old single shots like the Ballard may have chambered for a round like this?
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l6/rldar/swiss1.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l6/rldar/swiss.jpg

Jim Watson · September 25, 2006, 05:29 PM

Sure looks like the .41 Swiss in the next room.

hksigwalther · September 25, 2006, 06:47 PM

Does appear to be UMC.

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/usrim.htm

Steven Mace · September 26, 2006, 12:35 AM

I would agree, it's a .41 Swiss (a.k.a. 10.4x38mm).

http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/#10.4

Steve Mace

PAHOGHUNTER · September 26, 2006, 09:19 AM

I believe thats it, I wonder if UNION METALLIC made the cartridges for the Swiss or if there were other rifles chambered for the round?

**Mike Irwin** · September 26, 2006, 09:27 AM

Definitely a .41 Swiss.

If I remember correctly Francis Bannerman brought in a TON of these rifles and sold them as surplus sometime in the early 1900s. UMC made the ammo commercially for the US market. As far as I know, no US company has ever made ammunition for the Swiss -- they are entirely in-house with their ammo production and always have been.

No rifles in this caliber were ever produced commercially in the United States.

Remington MAY have chambered some rolling blocks on speculation, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

PAHOGHUNTER · September 26, 2006, 03:54 PM

Very interesting, I want to thank you guys for all the input.

September 25, 2006, 06:47 PM	#3
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	Does appear to be UMC. http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/usrim.htm __________________ - Ron V.

September 26, 2006, 12:35 AM	#4
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	I would agree, it's a .41 Swiss (a.k.a. 10.4x38mm). http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/#10.4 Steve Mace __________________ After today, its all historical

September 26, 2006, 09:19 AM	#5
PAHOGHUNTER Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Location: southern pa Posts: 199	Union Metallic I believe thats it, I wonder if UNION METALLIC made the cartridges for the Swiss or if there were other rifles chambered for the round?

September 26, 2006, 09:27 AM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,391	Definitely a .41 Swiss. If I remember correctly Francis Bannerman brought in a TON of these rifles and sold them as surplus sometime in the early 1900s. UMC made the ammo commercially for the US market. As far as I know, no US company has ever made ammunition for the Swiss -- they are entirely in-house with their ammo production and always have been. No rifles in this caliber were ever produced commercially in the United States. Remington MAY have chambered some rolling blocks on speculation, but I'm not 100% sure about that. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 26, 2006, 03:54 PM	#7
PAHOGHUNTER Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Location: southern pa Posts: 199	Umc Very interesting, I want to thank you guys for all the input.

September 25, 2006, 02:23 PM	#1
PAHOGHUNTER Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Location: southern pa Posts: 199	Cartridge ID I recently purchased this unusual looking cartridge, and am trying to ID it, it is rimmed and rimfire. The case appears to be made of copper, and is approx. 1.5 inches long, OAL is 2.2 inches, the bullet dia. is about .420, rim dia. approx. .625. And has a capital U stamped on the head, which I assume stands for Union Metallic? Doing some research it looks a lot like the Swiss 10.4X38, an old military round, but I'm not sure? I thought possibly some of the old single shots like the Ballard may have chambered for a round like this? http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l6/rldar/swiss1.jpg http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l6/rldar/swiss.jpg

September 25, 2006, 05:29 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,556	Sure looks like the .41 Swiss in the next room.