CVA Hawken Pistol Kit

[Prof Young]

I got a good buy on a CVA Hawken Pitsol Kit, model KA770 at an auction. But it does not have the insturctions or manual. I've inquired of Deer Creek and am waiting for a reply. I've searched elsewhere on the internet to no avail.

Help?

Prof Young

[4V50 Gary]

Buy it and we'll walk you through.

[Prof Young]

I bought it. Is there anything I should know before I start assembly. Otherwise I'll begin and holler when I get lost or stuck or dumfounded.

One question I already have . . . it's fifty cal, can I shoot regular fifty cal sabots or do I need to get some balls? (I mean for the gun . . . :-)

Life is good.
Prof Young

[Aguila Blanca]

Technically not a Hawken, but this might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAOxn09o5MY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADhOfAix20U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fj4VwgG1kI

[Prof Young]

Thanks Aguila, they were helpful.

Life is good.

Prof Young

[4V50 Gary]

Is it a Traditions kit?

I could not assemble mine based on what Trinidad College was trying to teach me. I had to use a lot of my knowledge from the NMLRA gunbuilding workshop at Bowling Green, classes at Conner Prairie and a class at the Log Cabin Shop.

Worse thing was having to relieve the bottom of the drum so the barrel/drum would fit the lock. Also had to bend the hammer so it would time with the nipple. Then I also drilled the ramrod hole just so the rod would enter straight.

First thing is to inlet the lock. Where the lock goes determines where the tang and barrel goes.

ETA: OK, found the kit. It's similar and possibly made by the same Spaniards. The grips are different as is the rear sight and the face of the lockplate is plainer (no faux engraving).

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...wken-pistol-50

Watch the video but do not follow those instructions. Post pictures so I can walk you through the assembly. Re: mystery spring. That forward lock screw is pushed partially in and then goes through the spring. The spring provides tension against the ramrod to keep it from falling out.

Especially do not follow his example of loading from the flask. Always use a powder measure. An ember can cause a premature ignition and you don't want to be holding a hand grenade.

[Pahoo]

Is it a Traditions kit?

It's the CVA kit and about 15yrs. ago, put two of these kits together and then, last year, sold them. Each one was sold with the instructions that came with the kits. Compared to other kits, the printed instructions were not all that great. The posted videos provide better support. This kit is similar to the Colonial pistol kit. Fairly straight forward. The usual advise that I give, is to be patient with the project and yourself. Assemble to a functional state and then go back and do the finish work. .........

Be Safe !!!!

[4V50 Gary]

Really hated it that he finished things (wood, metal) before asembling it.

[Prof Young]

I've found lots of good info and am on the verge of actually putting this thing together. I have not found the specific instructions fo this kit, even after inquiring with CVA. But after multiple videos and reading other instructions I think I have the idea.

I plant to a complete assembly for fit before I finish the wood. About the wood I'm still trying to decide if I want to be traditional or do something different. At the very least I'll figure out a way to inscribe my name and date of assembly on it somewhere.

In the mean time, I'm looking for loading info. I'm getting the idea that about 30grains of Pyrodex is a place to start. Talk to me.

Important query, do I need to get some 50 cal balls, or can I shoot the same sabot slugs that go in the in-line muzzle loading rifle? Talk to me.

Life is good.
Prof Young

[Schlitz 45]

The old trapper rule of thumb was to put the ball in hand, cover it with powder, & that was your load. I'm guessing you have a .50" bore? 30gr of XX or pistol powder is a light load & should be fine to start with.
I built a .54 Lyman Plains Pistol a couple years back as a companion to my .54 Hawken & generally load 60gr Pyrodex P with a patched .53 ball & it shoots well.
Take your time & don't be afraid to make it your own. I got tired of seeing the same old stuff from kits so I always try to put a little extra in the carving/shaping, & on this one I used both blue & plumb brown metal finishes for some contrast. Above all-have fun!

[Prof Young]

Muzzle Loaders:

Below is a pic of the pistol prefit assembled. I wanted to get it all together before I finished the wood. Take a look. You'll note that I have not drifted in the sights yet. I haven't put the brass butt cap on either.

The other two pics are a left over part and I can't figure out where it goes. I also have two left over screws that don't seem to go anywhere. It occurs to me that maybe these are parts for a different model. If you recognize the part, please let me know.

Looking forward to finishing this and shooting it. Still have not yet decided how to make the handle/wood parts unique.

Life is good.

Prof Young

[Schlitz 45]

No ideas about the extra parts, good looking pistol that should finish out nicely & be a fun shooter. I wanted to do some inlays on mine but there's not a lot of flat areas to work much into. Track of The Wolf has a bunch of small brass inlays that could be added.
All the inlays I had were a bit to big for a pistol so I had to wait for another project to use them on.

[4V50 Gary]

Sorry but I don't know what those screws are for.

They don't go in front for the brass nose cap, do they?
You've got the lockplate screws in right (they look like they're in).
Trigger plate screws can't be that long either.

The stock needs scuplting to make it more graceful and less blocky. Check out images of earlier flintlocks/percussion pistols.

[Pahoo]

I also have two left over screws that don't seem to go anywhere.

Wish you had posted pictures of the screws. Some kits do come with duplicate screws. One set is usually plated steel for assembly and the second set are brass and used on the finished product. as far as that other part, don't have a clue and wish you could show, more pictures. ....

Enjoy and;
Be Safe !!!

[Prof Young]

Yeah, the screws are for the brass butt plate that is not yet installed. Duh!

I'm thinking that the extra part must be for a different kit. I don't think these kits are the most precision thing.

Like I just realized that the picture on the box is not the same as the gun inside the box. The trigger guard is different as is the brass end cap under the barrel.

I love the skull and cross bones idea. I think I'll figure out away to carve that into the handle some where.

Will post a final pic and give a range report when I get there.

Still wondering if it's okay to shoot 50 cal sabots out of this thing or if I should stick to balls.

Life is good.
Prof Young

[Pahoo]

Still wondering if it's okay to shoot 50 cal sabots out of this thing or if I should stick to balls.

You can but being a conservative, which makes me cheap, I would settle in on the PRB. Also depends on the sabots. some will shoot like crap if you push them too hard. .....

Be Safe !!!

[4V50 Gary]

No to sabots. Plastic fouling is hard to remove from a non-inline muzzle loader. With inlines you can pull the plug and use a brass brush to push/scrub out the plastic residue. Stuff comes out in sheets. Use patched round balls.

[Prof Young]

Hey! How do I figure out what size caps to use with thing thing? They come in size 10 and 11 . . . right? How do I know which one or does it not matter?

Life is good.

Prof Young

[Pahoo]

Hey! How do I figure out what size caps to use with thing.

My kits, came with #11 and that is where "I" would start. They should fit snug and not rattle around. If it does, then go to a #10. Now then, there is dimensional data out there but even for what "they" might call a #11, there are inconsistencies. You can always use the 11's, later ......

Be Safe !!!

[Ricklin]

I'm with Gary, what I can see looks pretty well fitted, now work on those stock contours. It's yours, make it yours with sandpaper and time. No, not finger grooves, perish the thought! Just size and shape for your hand.

[Prof Young]

Well, I thought I was done with this thread but nope!

I'm thinking from everything I've read that this pistol takes a#11 percussion cap. I tried to confirm that by measuring the diameter of the NIPPLE. But alas, long internet searches have not revealed the out side diameter of a #11 NIPPLE! The size of the percussion caps themselves and the various sizes of the threads on the nipple, those I can find. The diameter of the nipple itself . . . nope.

Help!

Life is good.
Prof Young

[4V50 Gary]

Prof Young - check out the image in Post 1 and then Post 10. You might want to put beavertails after the lock (and on the opposite side). The stock was changed from a simple apex to having a small beavertail at the apex of where the lines meet. This also required contouring the stock down narrower on the sides to make the lines more pleasing and to get rid of the flat appearance.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...de-gun.923863/

[Prof Young]

Gary: Hitting the link provided, post one is a wood pile and all the other pics look like rifles to me. I think I understand what you mean by a Beaver tail, but I don't think there is enough wood there to create one. Thanks for the suggestion.


Life is good.
Prof Young

[4V50 Gary]

Prof. Young - you need only 1/16-1/32 of an inch of wood to have a high thumbprint relief. I think those guns have too much wood. Compare them to pictures of the originals. Schlitz45's image shows me there's more than enough wood. The first image shows the gun I am working on. Study the area around the lock. The wood comes to a point which is common. Then study the other images. I changed it by slimming the wood around the wrist down while leaving enough wood to carve the thumbprints/beavertails. All three image are of the same gun.

You can draw it with a pencil, then use a very sharp knife (Jim Chambers taught this to us) to trace the drawing and then a straight chisel to slowly remove the wood around the drawing. Then use several rifler files to clean up the lines and the chiseled wood. I use files to remove a lot of the wood and then as I get close, file and then scrapers.

Here's an intro video: https://youtu.be/5ltlSI1tP68?si=uvaQkUH6gWKEWpIE

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by Prof Young

Gary: Hitting the link provided, post one is a wood pile and all the other pics look like rifles to me. I think I understand what you mean by a Beaver tail, but I don't think there is enough wood there to create one. Thanks for the suggestion.


Life is good.
Prof Young

There's a rifle in front of the woodpile. If that kit is anything like the one I had there's plenty of wood there. It's just a lot of work to get it there. Those kits make fat chunky guns compared to anything original unless you're willing to do the work it takes to slim them down.