HELP! NOT Mossberg vs Remington

Guy B. Meredith · March 30, 2005, 11:56 PM

I will post this here and on THR as I would like to get back to my dealer soonest.

I bought a Ruger MK512 from a local gun shop a few years ago. Recently discovered it had manufacturing defect. Ruger is shipping a replacement with new serial number. The shop is willing to take it into stock so I don't have to register and give me credit against another item. That item will be either a Mossberg or Remington HD model.

I am looking at the 590 9 shot with 20" barrel, the 500 with either 18.5 inch barrel and 6 shots or 20 with 8 shots, the Remington 870 18 inch with 7 shots.

Are there any issues/preferences with barrel length or magazine size on either for HD and modest level of competition? I tried mounting an 870 and a 500 and both feel very nice with the Mossberg having perhaps an edge. I noticed that the Remington has the longer stock, but both feel good and I get an immediate good sight picture.

w4klr · March 31, 2005, 12:44 AM

I'd vote the 870, if your looking for home defense and mild competition.

For an all arounder, the 20" or 26" is great, keep in mind the 870 design is so good it hasn't changed in almost 50 years.

I think the Mossberg is the Bersa or CZ of shotguns, much like Maverick.

The 870 is tried and true, millions produced so parts (heaven forbid ever needed) are abundant, and accessories like barrel shrouds and sidestraddles are inexpensive for the model. Just my thoughts, I live in S. Florida, so I stay away from anything that has wood on it, so all of my firearms have synthetic grips on them.

Twycross · March 31, 2005, 12:47 AM

For HD, I don't think that an inch or two more or less of barrel would make much of a difference. However, I have never owned or fired a HD gun, so this is largely speculation.

At the close ranges a HD shotgun would be used for, either 12 or 20 ga is fine.

Since literally 99% of HD shotgun hits are one-shot-stops, I would not worry about ammo capacity. Not unless you are a very bad shot, or anticipate more than two or three BGs. I like higher capacity mags, just for the confidence of knowing I don't have to run back to my closet for more ammo if I get into sustained combat. But this is unlikely, and I have always had a tendance to carry more ammo that I need.

Personally, if I was going to get a HD gun, I would go with the Winchester 1300 Defender in 12 ga. I have the 1300 Black Shadow, and really like it. The Defender has an extremely smooth cycle, 18.5 inch barrel, 7+1 magazine, and you can get it either in full stock or a pistol grip.

I do not know how HD shotguns behave in hunting or sport applications.

w4klr · March 31, 2005, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Since literally 99% of HD shotgun hits are one-shot-stops, I would not worry about ammo capacity.

I don't know about anyone else, but for home defense, I prepare for war, I want as much of the biggest caliber I can get, just in case the local zoo gets out, or there is ever a large home invasion of 3 or more people... that heard your first shot and are now looking for places to hide... quick, so the first shot might be a lamp.

Nnobby45 · March 31, 2005, 12:53 AM

Wish I could help you in an objective fashion, but I've never owned a Mossberg, and have been an 870 shooter for decades from standard 12ga. to LW 20. I've converted one 870 to a self defense shotgun by shortening the bbl. to 18", adding a side saddle, and adding front and rear sights, a Pachmayer fore end, and soon, a plastic stock. It's older, and ugly looking, but reliable after all these years, and I don't have to worry about beating it up. Oh yes, I swapped out the old lifter for the new Flex Tab variety for better reliability.

Now, I've just ordered a Tactical 870 from Wilson/Scattergun Tech. They're expensive, but I've always wanted one with the works--SureFire fore end, etc. When it arrives, the barrel is going right off to Vang Comp in Arizona. When it comes back, it will put 9- 00 buck into about 9" at 30 yds or more! Accurate with slugs, too.

If you have the money, you can buy an assembled first class shotgun from Vang--they're in stock now and ready to go-- Vang choke system and all. They use the 870P for their guns. Or you can go with Scattergun Tech. If you don't have the money, there are less expansive Rem's. You can also send your used 870 Rem to Scattergun and they'll turn it into a Combat Shotgun, replace worn parts, convert to 3", install sights, etc., and make it work. Cheaper than a new one. If you don't want to do all that, perhaps an extender tube and maybe a side saddle--in which case you'll need a short fore end (so it doesn't hit the side saddle), and you're set, unless you want a new stock, and shortened barrel.

Mossbergs are also good guns, and cheaper in price. There have, as I understand it, been some quality control problems in the past, but many Mossberg shooters on this board swear by them. I believe that the tang safety on the Mossberg is better than the 870. I'd say Remington, but I'm predjudice.

Guy B. Meredith · March 31, 2005, 01:05 AM

Actually, I am more interested in knowing whether the barrel length or magazine length make a difference in clearance, balance, performance. Does one magazine length do a better job of moving ammo than another, and so on.

I found it interesting to feel the lack of a front heavy feel on an HD shotgun. My only prior experience with shotguns is with the Mossberg 195K bolt action I bought as a kid and a couple of shots from my grandfather's L.C. Smith side by side.

Wraith · March 31, 2005, 05:41 AM

590.

Noah Zark · March 31, 2005, 08:03 AM

Of your three options, I'd take either the 870 or the 590. Either will serve you fine. Of the two, I'm partial to the 870.

However, given my 'druthers, I'd go with my fave:

The Ithaca M37 Police Special:

Top one is a later blued model from the late 70s/early 80s, and it has the rollmarked waterfowling scene on the receiver. The bottom M37 is an earlier model, no rollmarked receiver graphics, and is green phosphated. Both have "37" S/N prefixes, 8-rd magazines, 2-3/4" chambers, and no disconnectors -- with practice, that's a handy feature to have.

Yeah, I like the Ithaca all right.

Noah

w4klr · March 31, 2005, 09:57 AM

Food for thought, I was quite surprised myself.

Nnobby45 · March 31, 2005, 06:38 PM

You'll notice that the magazine length on HD/Combat shotguns is no longer than the barrel length. The 2 rd extension will match the 18" barrel with the 870. Two extra rounds under the barrel won't unbalance the shotgun to any major degree. I could use a 3 rd. ext., but I don't want the xtra overall length. A 1 rd. ext. is also available, but they're mostly used on shorter barrel shotguns that fall under Federal regulations.

My 870 with side saddle (6 rds.) and two rd. extension tube, for a total 10 or 11 rds, under my 18" barrel weighs between 10 and 10.5 lb. That's chamber not loaded and mag. downloaded by 1 or 2 rds. Not as compfy to pack around, but has it's benefits controlling recoil. Not slower enough to get on target to matter, IMO, and nice and steady on target with the xtra weight. The longer magazine spring and follower feeds reliably. I download by one or two so I don't compress and weaken the springs over time. There might be be a different feel to the gun with the extra weight, but it needn't be a problem.

Nice picture of the Vang choke pattern. That's why my new one is soon going to have one.

March 30, 2005, 11:56 PM	#1
Guy B. Meredith Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 1,581	HELP! NOT Mossberg vs Remington I will post this here and on THR as I would like to get back to my dealer soonest. I bought a Ruger MK512 from a local gun shop a few years ago. Recently discovered it had manufacturing defect. Ruger is shipping a replacement with new serial number. The shop is willing to take it into stock so I don't have to register and give me credit against another item. That item will be either a Mossberg or Remington HD model. I am looking at the 590 9 shot with 20" barrel, the 500 with either 18.5 inch barrel and 6 shots or 20 with 8 shots, the Remington 870 18 inch with 7 shots. Are there any issues/preferences with barrel length or magazine size on either for HD and modest level of competition? I tried mounting an 870 and a 500 and both feel very nice with the Mossberg having perhaps an edge. I noticed that the Remington has the longer stock, but both feel good and I get an immediate good sight picture. __________________ Smart Gun + 1 Battery + 3 Wires = Dumb Gun PC = Agenda driven groupthink filter on reality. Apostrophes denote ownership or missing letters NOT plurals!

March 31, 2005, 12:47 AM	#3
Twycross Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 1,187	For HD, I don't think that an inch or two more or less of barrel would make much of a difference. However, I have never owned or fired a HD gun, so this is largely speculation. At the close ranges a HD shotgun would be used for, either 12 or 20 ga is fine. Since literally 99% of HD shotgun hits are one-shot-stops, I would not worry about ammo capacity. Not unless you are a very bad shot, or anticipate more than two or three BGs. I like higher capacity mags, just for the confidence of knowing I don't have to run back to my closet for more ammo if I get into sustained combat. But this is unlikely, and I have always had a tendance to carry more ammo that I need. Personally, if I was going to get a HD gun, I would go with the Winchester 1300 Defender in 12 ga. I have the 1300 Black Shadow, and really like it. The Defender has an extremely smooth cycle, 18.5 inch barrel, 7+1 magazine, and you can get it either in full stock or a pistol grip. I do not know how HD shotguns behave in hunting or sport applications. __________________ The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming. - Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)

March 31, 2005, 12:53 AM	#5
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	Remington Wish I could help you in an objective fashion, but I've never owned a Mossberg, and have been an 870 shooter for decades from standard 12ga. to LW 20. I've converted one 870 to a self defense shotgun by shortening the bbl. to 18", adding a side saddle, and adding front and rear sights, a Pachmayer fore end, and soon, a plastic stock. It's older, and ugly looking, but reliable after all these years, and I don't have to worry about beating it up. Oh yes, I swapped out the old lifter for the new Flex Tab variety for better reliability. Now, I've just ordered a Tactical 870 from Wilson/Scattergun Tech. They're expensive, but I've always wanted one with the works--SureFire fore end, etc. When it arrives, the barrel is going right off to Vang Comp in Arizona. When it comes back, it will put 9- 00 buck into about 9" at 30 yds or more! Accurate with slugs, too. If you have the money, you can buy an assembled first class shotgun from Vang--they're in stock now and ready to go-- Vang choke system and all. They use the 870P for their guns. Or you can go with Scattergun Tech. If you don't have the money, there are less expansive Rem's. You can also send your used 870 Rem to Scattergun and they'll turn it into a Combat Shotgun, replace worn parts, convert to 3", install sights, etc., and make it work. Cheaper than a new one. If you don't want to do all that, perhaps an extender tube and maybe a side saddle--in which case you'll need a short fore end (so it doesn't hit the side saddle), and you're set, unless you want a new stock, and shortened barrel. Mossbergs are also good guns, and cheaper in price. There have, as I understand it, been some quality control problems in the past, but many Mossberg shooters on this board swear by them. I believe that the tang safety on the Mossberg is better than the 870. I'd say Remington, but I'm predjudice.

March 31, 2005, 01:05 AM	#6
Guy B. Meredith Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 1,581	Actually, I am more interested in knowing whether the barrel length or magazine length make a difference in clearance, balance, performance. Does one magazine length do a better job of moving ammo than another, and so on. I found it interesting to feel the lack of a front heavy feel on an HD shotgun. My only prior experience with shotguns is with the Mossberg 195K bolt action I bought as a kid and a couple of shots from my grandfather's L.C. Smith side by side. __________________ Smart Gun + 1 Battery + 3 Wires = Dumb Gun PC = Agenda driven groupthink filter on reality. Apostrophes denote ownership or missing letters NOT plurals!

March 31, 2005, 05:41 AM	#7
Wraith Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: The Free State Posts: 498	590. __________________ June 23, 2003 GRATZ et al. v. BOLLINGER et al. The day America died. Never Forget 9/11. Cold dead hands...

March 31, 2005, 12:44 AM	#2
w4klr Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fl Posts: 280	I'd vote the 870, if your looking for home defense and mild competition. For an all arounder, the 20" or 26" is great, keep in mind the 870 design is so good it hasn't changed in almost 50 years. I think the Mossberg is the Bersa or CZ of shotguns, much like Maverick. The 870 is tried and true, millions produced so parts (heaven forbid ever needed) are abundant, and accessories like barrel shrouds and sidestraddles are inexpensive for the model. Just my thoughts, I live in S. Florida, so I stay away from anything that has wood on it, so all of my firearms have synthetic grips on them.

March 31, 2005, 08:03 AM	#8
Noah Zark Junior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Posts: 8	Of your three options, I'd take either the 870 or the 590. Either will serve you fine. Of the two, I'm partial to the 870. However, given my 'druthers, I'd go with my fave: The Ithaca M37 Police Special: Top one is a later blued model from the late 70s/early 80s, and it has the rollmarked waterfowling scene on the receiver. The bottom M37 is an earlier model, no rollmarked receiver graphics, and is green phosphated. Both have "37" S/N prefixes, 8-rd magazines, 2-3/4" chambers, and no disconnectors -- with practice, that's a handy feature to have. Yeah, I like the Ithaca all right. Noah

March 31, 2005, 09:57 AM	#9
w4klr Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fl Posts: 280	Food for thought, I was quite surprised myself.

March 31, 2005, 06:38 PM	#10
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	Guy You'll notice that the magazine length on HD/Combat shotguns is no longer than the barrel length. The 2 rd extension will match the 18" barrel with the 870. Two extra rounds under the barrel won't unbalance the shotgun to any major degree. I could use a 3 rd. ext., but I don't want the xtra overall length. A 1 rd. ext. is also available, but they're mostly used on shorter barrel shotguns that fall under Federal regulations. My 870 with side saddle (6 rds.) and two rd. extension tube, for a total 10 or 11 rds, under my 18" barrel weighs between 10 and 10.5 lb. That's chamber not loaded and mag. downloaded by 1 or 2 rds. Not as compfy to pack around, but has it's benefits controlling recoil. Not slower enough to get on target to matter, IMO, and nice and steady on target with the xtra weight. The longer magazine spring and follower feeds reliably. I download by one or two so I don't compress and weaken the springs over time. There might be be a different feel to the gun with the extra weight, but it needn't be a problem. Nice picture of the Vang choke pattern. That's why my new one is soon going to have one.