New to reloading with questions... - Page 2

lockinload · December 2, 2011, 09:52 AM

Grayson,

You can learn from the school of hard knocks, I know I did, but you should find an experienced loading buddy that can save you hours of possible frustrations.
There are so many damn things that can go unnoticed until you are sitting on a few hundred rounds at which time the bullet puller becomes your best friend or your worst enemy.

engineermike · December 3, 2011, 08:01 AM

Did I mention that you should buy a bullet puller?

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · December 3, 2011, 12:49 PM

WOW, if all you guys need bullet pullers so bad and often, me thinks I need to be very careful who is on the next bench!!!!!!!!

Nope, for your own safety, better do lots read'in and think'in and read'in and less bullet pull'in.

Oh yes, I know, "it" happens, been there and done that, but it should be the very rare happening!!!!!!!!! and as said, a bullet puller would be weeeeell down on my list.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

engineermike · December 3, 2011, 06:22 PM

Not me, I use it quit often. Looking to get a collet bullet puller next. (If I can find one cheap) To take some of the stress off my other bullet puller. I'm secure enough in my man hood to admit "I pull bullets and I'm not ashamed of it".

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · December 3, 2011, 10:12 PM

Glad!!!!! Your secure Mike,

But that has little to do with needing to pull a great number of bullets.

I don't know, but maybe it is the way I choose to develop my hand loads that makes it a fact that my bullet puller is seldom needed.

But it is a fact, and has been for the many years I have reloaded. It also has nothing to do with me not being "man enough" to admit to creating bad/dangerious handloads with any consistancy.

Here awhile back, I was working up loads for a friend's 30/06 and after the loads were assembled, I realised I was looking at the 30/06 A. I. loading data.

Had these loads made it to the shooting bench, and most of them were fired, my normal proceedure of starting with low powder charges and working up in a reasonable manner, would have shown that I was experiencing higher then expected chamber pressures well before arriving at the danger point.

Considering the fact that I did realise my mistake well before shooting day, I simply tested the loads which were in the safe range and brought the other - and likely high pressure - loads home, where -- yep I broke out the bullet puller for one of those rare uses.

Yep, like I said, have been there and done that as to needing a puller, just not very often.

However, from the time I started loading in the 60s until now, I have never done this type of thing before, never.

Maybe it is my advancing age, but more likely the friend for whom I was developing the loads providing an un-needed distraction which brought about my NOT making a list and checking it twice before the powder was weighed and went in the cases.

So, I'll still stand by my comment that a bullet puller is a low priorty item on my want/need list. Had I had my ducks properly in a row, I would not have needed one in the above situation.

The point being, have your ducks in a row and keep distractions to a minimum when you reload and you will seldom, as in very seldom need a puller.

HOWEVER, Just read something of interest on page #82 of the Handloader Mag. (Handloader #275) about what must be the new "RDZ Case Trimmer."

Now, that is something every reloader needs, a case trimmer. I'm not likely to buy this great looking product for the asking price of $179.95, as my old RCBS trimmer is still doing quite well, thank you, and is not likely to be replaced in my life time.

But let me quote the following by John Haviland, because of the very valid point it makes.

"Case trimming is the mandatory monotony of handloading. Case necks over maximum length will pinch the bullet on firing and force pressures to go through the roof - and perhaps pieces of the rifle as well. So the cautious handloader keeps cases trimmed to the proper length."

Yep, ducks in a row or not, the case trimmer and a way to measure cases, are tools which should be towards the top of every reloaders NEED list.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

jimbob86 · December 3, 2011, 10:15 PM

Another vote for the Lee trimming set up, chucked into a 3/8" drill.

engineermike · December 4, 2011, 07:53 PM

I pull the damn things because they are not seated properly, not to my tolerance. Has nothing to do with talent just dies. Maybe I'm the only one with defective dies? Must be your tolerances are not as close as mine.

flashhole · December 4, 2011, 08:04 PM

Interesting perspectives on the use of a puller. I'm in Crusty's camp. If you are pulling bullets due to conditions other than over-charged cases you need to correct your process. A runout tool helps with this. I get bothered if my rifle loads get to .002" runout.

engineermike · December 4, 2011, 09:47 PM

And how would I correct my process?

farmerboy · December 4, 2011, 10:29 PM

Do it right the first time!

engineermike · December 5, 2011, 04:38 AM

Well, sorry I can't compete with such grand masters as use guys. It don't take me to long to throw together a few bullets and go shoot.

But the one thing I do know is each and everyone of you has a bullet puller and you use it and you use it ofter. So Grayson "BUY A BULLET PULLER".

flashhole · December 5, 2011, 06:50 AM

Measure runout at all processing steps on the case (before and after sizing) and finished ammo. If the stuff coming off your press is worse that what is going in you have misadjustments in your dies you can correct.

There is a lot of play in the die/press. You can lock it down off center and introduce runout in an otherwise good case. I lube a case and run it up into the die prior to locking the die down. This helps greatly at minimizing runout. You might also screen some brass for neck thickness. Lopsided in = lopsided out.

engineermike · December 5, 2011, 10:11 AM

Run out fix'n is not going to help me. It's ok guys I'll fix it myself just like I always do. "But I sill need a bullet puller"

brickeyee · December 5, 2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Run out fix'n is not going to help me.

Just a guess here, but most of us prefer shooting quality ammo over taking bad stuff apart.

We try to figure out what is going wrong to minimize the need to break down loaded rounds.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · December 5, 2011, 12:33 PM

You nailed it right on the head "brickeyee"!

"------- you use it 'ofter'" Sorry, Mike. I may have a bullet pullet but ofter/often is not in the list of words that discribe how often it is used. Not even close.

I have been reloading since the 60, and I barrowed a hammer type, which I hated, puller exactly twice before finally buying my collet puller just a few years ago.

Over time I did buy most of the collets available for the puller, simply cause I can get them now, but don't even have calibers to fit most of the sizes and have them just cause, just in case, I should need them.

Over the years before owning my own collet puller I did pull a few bullets using the press and pliers, but again often is not in the picture. The press/pliers was just as likely used to break down a few pieces of ammo for the brass or to see what the bullet looked like.

No one here has said they never use a puller, but it has been well and correctly stated that if one is needed very often, there is a problem with the tools or loading process.

Said enough, backing out.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

jimbob86 · December 5, 2011, 12:35 PM

Does the collet puller mess up the bullet at all?

engineermike · December 5, 2011, 05:46 PM

Well Crusty I guess you did say it best, that when you were younger and new at all this back in the 60's you pulled a lot of bullets. I think Grayson says right from the start that he he new also. you guys are just to near sighted for me, unlike ol crusty I don't have to back out I just leave.

"So buy the bullet puller"

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · December 5, 2011, 06:04 PM

Well Mike, don't know where you get your information, as I never said and never have pulled, "a lot of bullets."

Have NEVER had a need to do so.

Clearly I have said I have used a barrowed hammer type pullet two different times since I started loading in the 60s, and I do now own a collet puller which I use during the very few times it is needed.

It has been clearly indicated on this thread that if anyone is needing the services of a bullet puller anything approaching often, there is some kind of a problem with that person's reloading process and or tools.

That has been stated clearly enough for even an Ol'Coot like myself to understand, and there has been far more time/effort spent attempting to make this understood then should have been needed!

No need to say any more, and I won't be back. I have un-subscribed from notifications of additional comments on this thread.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

engineermike · December 5, 2011, 06:09 PM

Now you are telling me I'm not smart enough to reload? As I have to many problems? Whats up crusty? Geeeez, you do know that I am virtual don't you. Oh well, like I said "buy the pullet puller.

flashhole · December 5, 2011, 06:09 PM

engineermike - are you a mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, software engineer or train engineer?

flashhole · December 5, 2011, 06:21 PM

Grayson - this is my bullet puller. I've used it exactly three times in my entire reloading history. Once to pull 4 overcharged 300 Win Mag loads, once to pull some bullets for a friend out of surplus factory ammo (he wanted the brass) and the third time to pull some lead bullets out of ammo so the lead could go in the lead pot. I'm glad I have it but it is not an absolutely necessary tool for the reloading bench. It was years before I bought one and the only reason I did was I liked the design of the puller. I can reuse jacketed bulllets that I pull but it chews up lead pretty badly because of the roll crimp. It hangs on the bench in plain view and looks pretty cool so that is a consideration too.

dunerjeff · December 5, 2011, 08:05 PM

I started reloading in the early nineties,I just bought my puller this summer,I had some test loads that I thought were too strong(the loads under them felt pretty stout) when I got to them.I was under max,but didn't feel they would be safe.I did have probably thirty old rifle rounds, that I had stashed to pull from before I got the puller,I lost any data on them so needed to salvage parts and see what bullets they were.

December 3, 2011, 10:12 PM	#30
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	Glad!!!!! Your secure Mike, But that has little to do with needing to pull a great number of bullets. I don't know, but maybe it is the way I choose to develop my hand loads that makes it a fact that my bullet puller is seldom needed. But it is a fact, and has been for the many years I have reloaded. It also has nothing to do with me not being "man enough" to admit to creating bad/dangerious handloads with any consistancy. Here awhile back, I was working up loads for a friend's 30/06 and after the loads were assembled, I realised I was looking at the 30/06 A. I. loading data. Had these loads made it to the shooting bench, and most of them were fired, my normal proceedure of starting with low powder charges and working up in a reasonable manner, would have shown that I was experiencing higher then expected chamber pressures well before arriving at the danger point. Considering the fact that I did realise my mistake well before shooting day, I simply tested the loads which were in the safe range and brought the other - and likely high pressure - loads home, where -- yep I broke out the bullet puller for one of those rare uses. Yep, like I said, have been there and done that as to needing a puller, just not very often. However, from the time I started loading in the 60s until now, I have never done this type of thing before, never. Maybe it is my advancing age, but more likely the friend for whom I was developing the loads providing an un-needed distraction which brought about my NOT making a list and checking it twice before the powder was weighed and went in the cases. So, I'll still stand by my comment that a bullet puller is a low priorty item on my want/need list. Had I had my ducks properly in a row, I would not have needed one in the above situation. The point being, have your ducks in a row and keep distractions to a minimum when you reload and you will seldom, as in very seldom need a puller. HOWEVER, Just read something of interest on page #82 of the Handloader Mag. (Handloader #275) about what must be the new "RDZ Case Trimmer." Now, that is something every reloader needs, a case trimmer. I'm not likely to buy this great looking product for the asking price of $179.95, as my old RCBS trimmer is still doing quite well, thank you, and is not likely to be replaced in my life time. But let me quote the following by John Haviland, because of the very valid point it makes. "Case trimming is the mandatory monotony of handloading. Case necks over maximum length will pinch the bullet on firing and force pressures to go through the roof - and perhaps pieces of the rifle as well. So the cautious handloader keeps cases trimmed to the proper length." Yep, ducks in a row or not, the case trimmer and a way to measure cases, are tools which should be towards the top of every reloaders NEED list. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Last edited by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot; December 3, 2011 at 10:24 PM.

December 4, 2011, 08:04 PM	#33
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Interesting perspectives on the use of a puller. I'm in Crusty's camp. If you are pulling bullets due to conditions other than over-charged cases you need to correct your process. A runout tool helps with this. I get bothered if my rifle loads get to .002" runout. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 5, 2011, 06:50 AM	#37
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Measure runout at all processing steps on the case (before and after sizing) and finished ammo. If the stuff coming off your press is worse that what is going in you have misadjustments in your dies you can correct. There is a lot of play in the die/press. You can lock it down off center and introduce runout in an otherwise good case. I lube a case and run it up into the die prior to locking the die down. This helps greatly at minimizing runout. You might also screen some brass for neck thickness. Lopsided in = lopsided out. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 5, 2011, 06:09 PM	#45
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	engineermike - are you a mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, software engineer or train engineer? __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 5, 2011, 06:21 PM	#46
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Grayson - this is my bullet puller. I've used it exactly three times in my entire reloading history. Once to pull 4 overcharged 300 Win Mag loads, once to pull some bullets for a friend out of surplus factory ammo (he wanted the brass) and the third time to pull some lead bullets out of ammo so the lead could go in the lead pot. I'm glad I have it but it is not an absolutely necessary tool for the reloading bench. It was years before I bought one and the only reason I did was I liked the design of the puller. I can reuse jacketed bulllets that I pull but it chews up lead pretty badly because of the roll crimp. It hangs on the bench in plain view and looks pretty cool so that is a consideration too. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 2, 2011, 09:52 AM	#26
lockinload Member Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 91	Grayson, You can learn from the school of hard knocks, I know I did, but you should find an experienced loading buddy that can save you hours of possible frustrations. There are so many damn things that can go unnoticed until you are sitting on a few hundred rounds at which time the bullet puller becomes your best friend or your worst enemy.

December 3, 2011, 08:01 AM	#27
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Did I mention that you should buy a bullet puller?

December 3, 2011, 12:49 PM	#28
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	WOW, if all you guys need bullet pullers so bad and often, me thinks I need to be very careful who is on the next bench!!!!!!!! Nope, for your own safety, better do lots read'in and think'in and read'in and less bullet pull'in. Oh yes, I know, "it" happens, been there and done that, but it should be the very rare happening!!!!!!!!! and as said, a bullet puller would be weeeeell down on my list. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

December 3, 2011, 06:22 PM	#29
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Not me, I use it quit often. Looking to get a collet bullet puller next. (If I can find one cheap) To take some of the stress off my other bullet puller. I'm secure enough in my man hood to admit "I pull bullets and I'm not ashamed of it".

December 3, 2011, 10:15 PM	#31
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Another vote for the Lee trimming set up, chucked into a 3/8" drill.

December 4, 2011, 07:53 PM	#32
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	I pull the damn things because they are not seated properly, not to my tolerance. Has nothing to do with talent just dies. Maybe I'm the only one with defective dies? Must be your tolerances are not as close as mine.

December 4, 2011, 09:47 PM	#34
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	And how would I correct my process?

December 4, 2011, 10:29 PM	#35
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Do it right the first time!

December 5, 2011, 04:38 AM	#36
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Well, sorry I can't compete with such grand masters as use guys. It don't take me to long to throw together a few bullets and go shoot. But the one thing I do know is each and everyone of you has a bullet puller and you use it and you use it ofter. So Grayson "BUY A BULLET PULLER".

December 5, 2011, 10:11 AM	#38
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Run out fix'n is not going to help me. It's ok guys I'll fix it myself just like I always do. "But I sill need a bullet puller"

December 5, 2011, 12:33 PM	#40
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	You nailed it right on the head "brickeyee"! "------- you use it 'ofter'" Sorry, Mike. I may have a bullet pullet but ofter/often is not in the list of words that discribe how often it is used. Not even close. I have been reloading since the 60, and I barrowed a hammer type, which I hated, puller exactly twice before finally buying my collet puller just a few years ago. Over time I did buy most of the collets available for the puller, simply cause I can get them now, but don't even have calibers to fit most of the sizes and have them just cause, just in case, I should need them. Over the years before owning my own collet puller I did pull a few bullets using the press and pliers, but again often is not in the picture. The press/pliers was just as likely used to break down a few pieces of ammo for the brass or to see what the bullet looked like. No one here has said they never use a puller, but it has been well and correctly stated that if one is needed very often, there is a problem with the tools or loading process. Said enough, backing out. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

December 5, 2011, 12:35 PM	#41
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Does the collet puller mess up the bullet at all?

December 5, 2011, 05:46 PM	#42
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Well Crusty I guess you did say it best, that when you were younger and new at all this back in the 60's you pulled a lot of bullets. I think Grayson says right from the start that he he new also. you guys are just to near sighted for me, unlike ol crusty I don't have to back out I just leave. "So buy the bullet puller"

December 5, 2011, 06:04 PM	#43
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	Well Mike, don't know where you get your information, as I never said and never have pulled, "a lot of bullets." Have NEVER had a need to do so. Clearly I have said I have used a barrowed hammer type pullet two different times since I started loading in the 60s, and I do now own a collet puller which I use during the very few times it is needed. It has been clearly indicated on this thread that if anyone is needing the services of a bullet puller anything approaching often, there is some kind of a problem with that person's reloading process and or tools. That has been stated clearly enough for even an Ol'Coot like myself to understand, and there has been far more time/effort spent attempting to make this understood then should have been needed! No need to say any more, and I won't be back. I have un-subscribed from notifications of additional comments on this thread. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

December 5, 2011, 08:05 PM	#47
dunerjeff Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 440	I started reloading in the early nineties,I just bought my puller this summer,I had some test loads that I thought were too strong(the loads under them felt pretty stout) when I got to them.I was under max,but didn't feel they would be safe.I did have probably thirty old rifle rounds, that I had stashed to pull from before I got the puller,I lost any data on them so needed to salvage parts and see what bullets they were.