Antlerless only seasons

[.284]

I have been hunting deer in Michigan for over 25 years and in all that time I could count on three seasons. The first was archery 10/01-11/14 and 12/1-01/01. The biggie was regular firearm 11/15-11/30. The third was muzzlestuffing, a 10 season in December. It was all so easy. About 10 years ago they added late season antlerless in Southern Michigan (about 10-14 day season after muzzleloading ended). Okay okay, I'll play along but, I was a bit skepticle that does wouldn't be the only deer hitting the ground and I thought that there were areas that didn't need the extra harvesting.

Recently, the DNR has added other hunts. Today starts the second year for the early antlerless only season. Last year it was a weekend and this year it starts today and runs through the 20th. I'm sorry but I cannot get excited about shooting a doe in September. Maybe it's because I feel the Michigan DNR does a crap job of managing the deer herd to begin with. Maybe it's because I feel they are giving in to the insurance companies' lobbyists that want the deer gone to keep claim costs down. Perhaps it's because I feel the DNR has a budget problem and is looking at their wallet as opposed to what's best for the deer herd. Maybe I'm prematurely turning in to a grumpy old man.
I remember when drawing a doe tag was a lottery win and now you can buy 5 of the cotton pickers over the counter per day.

So, am I crazy to be skepticle as to the motivation of the DNR? Does your state have doe only hunts? If yes, what do find to be the pros and cons?

[hogdogs]

Actually, Michigan is one of the states with known CWD history... It is a fact that NO STATE WITH LIBERAL BAG LIMITS has ever had a known case of even a single deer with symptoms of CWD... That is a big issue. But I guarantee that hunters (the eyes in the field) have made it clear that they see a far too lopsided doe to buck ratio.

I am glad they are trying to make things better for the deer population health as well as for the hunters.

You can pay to hunt the does or let your state with less than stellar fiscal responsibility history, spend much more to hire "sharpshooters" to cull the herd...

Go get you some fine eatin' nanny deer.

Brent

[dahermit]

When I started hunting deer in Michigan in the early 60's, a person had to be fairly lucky to get a deer. There just were not that many compared to the current numbers. A sucessful season in Michigan was 100,000 deer taken in that year. Now, the number is much higher than that. The Michigan DNR must have be managing the herd correctly or that would not be the case.
Therefore, I have trust in the DNR to correctly manage the deer.

[BIG P]

Here in GA. half the state the so. part it is doe days start to finish sept.thru.DEC 31.We can take 10 doe's & 2 bucks. Even with that everybody you talk to has hit a deer once or twice with the car.We have a lot of deer here but the doe's are off the chain.I'M a meat hunter so im good with it.I think the D.N.R. here does a good job Gov.cuts has made it hard for them to hold down on the FOOLS if you know what i mean.

[Deerhunter]

In PA we just made a change a few year or two ago. Archery (antlerless) mid September (18th). Then the first Saturday is antlered and antlerless. The State is broken up by Wildlife Management Units. Depending on which ones you hunt there are different numbers of antlerless tags that are for sale, ($6.70 for resident, $26.70 for non resident). The WMU I hunt has the most at somewhere around 120,000. You can pretty much shoot doe from mid September until the last weekend in January. Just depends on what you hunt with.....Archery, flintlock, and shotgun.

See link for all our hunting dates
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...=576240&mode=2

[DiscoRacing]

WE have single sex seasons here also... not sure what specifically it is supposed to accomplish... I just go with the regs.

[Rob96]

You must be hunting 5C in PA. That's where I live and hunt. You do know the reason they bumped it up to 120,000 Doe permits is because they surveyed homeowners if there are too many deer. People move to what were the farm areas or near gamelands and then complain about the deer. Last year was the first year I did not see a single deer. Had to go to Sams Club to fill my freezer.

[Deerhunter]

@Rob96..........yeah we hunt 5C in Chester and Montgomery County. The problem is too many deer. The one place we hunt we would regularly have herds of 15 or so doe come up into the field. The problem is that they stay on the property that we is posted or in between houses. The last few years when we could bait it was good. Late in the season like I said 10, 15 and even 20 would come up to feed once they started to herd up. Most of the season though we would have 2, 3 or 4 come up at a time. It was a really productive way to cut the herd on that property.

We are likely going to lose one of our spots which will suck. If we lose that we are forced to hunt one 13 acre spot. Good thing there are only 3 of us that are allowed to hunt it and we have 5 stands on the property.

I got a 8 pointer last year and the year before I shot 4 doe. I didn't get to hunt as much last year and well long story there.......

Good luck to everyone this season. Getting close or started for some

[Rob96]

I wish I could agree with you on the too many deer. Here in Lehigh County it boils down too many farms that were sold to developers. People bought the houses wanting the country experience. He'll, even road kill is becoming a rare sight.

[jimbob86]

even road kill is becoming a rare sight.

Not so here...... in places (where landowners / municipalities don't allow hunting, especially) the deer "yard up" in Dec. to Feb. ...... I can think of one stretch of Hwy 50 just north of the Platte river that I have counted as many as 10 dead deer in the ditches at a time in a single MILE. At least the paint an body men are happy......

Nebraska has encouraged the taking of does for the last several years, and expanded seasons for antlerless deer .... I think they are stating to make a dent, but the real problem is access to a place to hunt, at least in the eastern end of the state. You can have all the permits you want, but if it's you and 57 other hunters all crowded onto the same patch of public ground.... after opening day, the deer will all find some tree-hugger's backyard, where they will be fed shelled corn until they wander into traffic.

[Deerhunter]

The biggest problem we have is that there are too many houses going up and too many people wont let you hunt. I got into archery hunting about 16 years ago. I had a feeling that things were headed this way. So now we have lots of people complaining about deer eating their plants but wont let you hunt. I have several people at work that have deer around their house but the HOA they have wont let people hunt so that is a problem also

A good friend of my dad's has enough property to archery hunt. His wife likes the deer. She complains that the bushes are getting eaten but doesn't understand that it is the deer. She wonders why if it is the deer why only one side of the bush gets eaten. The other side of the bush is close to the road.

We actually got the one hunting spot we have due to the owners wife. She liked the deer when they started dating. After she moved in and started planting stuff and the deer were eating it that changed. My buddy had asked for permission when he was working on the house and was told no. A few months later the guy called and asked us to come start shooting deer. We were out there in May/June moving tree stands and she asked us why we weren't shooting the deer that day. She really wants them gone so that helps us out.

[kraigwy]

I'm no biologist, but I think F&G people have the right ideal, too many deer means poor deer.

Getting too many people and less habitat for them, not to mention road kills.

Here in NE Wyoming, they allow relatively cheap extra tags for does, the problem is not enough people take advantage of them. An example, Cambell County was listed as having somewhat over 57,000. My county, (Weston) is smaller then Cambell, maybe not 57K but I would bet, critters per square mile, we got them beat.

I don't know the answer, but I believe something should be done to provide healthier herds. Some of the towns near by have instigated archery hunts in town. Still seems like there are more and more doe's every year.

[.284]

Guys, thanks for the replies.....good stuff. I would like to make a few more comments and give some other opinions. First, to my buddy Hogdogs, I have agreed with you on many other threads and will acknowledge that you are indeed correct Michigan has had one case of CWD. However, it was an out of state, purchased, pen raise deer. It was not and has not been an "in the wild" situation. The other point I'd like to make is that I have done plenty of meat hunting and have no problem shooting does. I just don't think that the DNR is doing a service to hunters by offering unlimited doe tags at five per day. Now, to dahermit, I will say yes, the deer population has increased in our state. Although, will you admit that the available habitat has decreased thus concentrating the deer in a smaller area? I would like to steal some managment practices from other states as well as private rances. I would like to see Michigan require mandatory check in of harvested animals as well as mandatory turn in of unused tags. I feel that would giive a more accurated accounting of not only harvest numbers but, also the percentage of buck to doe kills. I have seen hunting shows where ranches require the harvest of a doe prior to the harvest of a buck. I don't think thats a bad idea. Ultimately, I think the majority of Michigan hunters are responsible enough to use a good common sense approach when hunting. I am worried that there is a certain number of slob hunters who will shoot 20+ does in a season and I think that's not cool.


And for the record, I am 43 years old. So, at best I'm a grumpy middle aged man.

[Deerhunter]

Deer have a great ability to survive close to humans. Give them a small strip (50 or so yards wide) of woods near a creek directly between housing developments and the deer will run that and live there. The adapt really well. Again in the part (WMU) Pa that I hunt they have 120,900+ antlerless (doe) tags for sale. I get that now that I am a non resident that I have to pay extra for my license but the difference for the antlerless tags is crazy. Residents pay $6.70 and non residents have to pay $26.70, each. They want to cut the numbers in the Southeastern corner of PA. We were allowed to bait and it worked. They claim that it didn't get the results they wanted so they stopped it. Wish they would have talked to me and my buddy about if it was working.

[jimbob86]

non residents have to pay $26.70, each

That's a bargain for an outa-state tag! Nebrask non-redident antlerless tags are $55, and Buck tags are 10 times that......

[RWBlue01]

The last time I hunted in MI was years ago. At the time you didn't have to take your deer to the check in station. So assuming things have not changed, I would agree with you, Michigan does a poor job of managing their deer. They have no way of knowing how many deer are killed.

As far as antlerless season, I think they are needed to balance out the deer population because many people only want to kill deer with antlers.

[Deerhunter]

It cost me $101.70 ($20.70 for resident) for regular hunting license and that covers all small game, 2 turkey tags and an antlered tag. Then I need to pay $26.70 ($16.70 for resident) for my archery stamp and $6.70 ($3.70 for resident) for migratory bird stamp. It would cost me $36.70 ($16.70 for resident) for a bear tag

Then on top of that I pay the $26.70 ($6.70 for resident) for each antlerless deer I want to "try" and shoot.

It is just a little crazy. I don't mind the rest of the stuff but when they are trying to kill antlerless deer in the area I hunt that they are offering 121000 tags you would think they could cut me a break.

We just have to mail in the report card but it isn't enforced sometimes we forget about mailing them or they get lost after we tear the ear tag part off to attach to the deer.

[longranger]

We can kill 1 Mule Deer buck,1 Whitetail buck in some units and 4 Whitetail does where Whitetail live. That's 6 deer in Wyoming,very generous for a western state.I live in a area that has a good populations of both.
2 years ago Wyoming F&G allowed our little town to shoot deer in town(archery only) in certain areas.Not enough deer were taken so F&G allowed local police officers take a few (35) they are given to local processors and distubted to those who would enjoy some venison.
Where I live we have "street gangs" of Mule deer and Whietails,Mulies are the North side gang and the Whitetails are the South side gang.
Keep your pets inside during the rut, we had a Mulie buck kill a dog in it's yard last year.I have 2 dandy Mulies living in my neighborhood,a couple of days ago I opened the bedroom window and they were sleeping under the window.I need them to go one more block north then I can slip a arrow into the big 6X4.

[Win73]

Here in Alabama all you have to do to hunt deer is buy a $24 all game license. (If you only want to hunt small game, the license is $16.) There are no tags or other permits to worry about. Bow season opens in mid October. Gun season opens in mid November. They run through January. If you hunt both ways, you could legally kill about 210 deer a season. You can kill two a day, one of which can be a buck. Starting two seasons ago, they did impose a three buck season limit. They are obviously trying to get people to kill more does.

[.284]

Well, it's over for me. The early doe season ends a half hour after sunset tonight (I work until 8 tonight) and I stood true to my beliefs and didn't play. Both Thurdays and Friday nights I could've been at the back of my property and whacked a doe. I have only seen four mature does all summer. I decided to wait and uses them for live decoys for some love sick bucks. Here is one positive change I like. Last year I could buy one doe permit per day. Saturday I walked in the local sporting goods store and bought two. I purchased a public land leftover and a private land in the Southern Michigan zone. The cost is 15 bucks each. So, I have two buck tags (one buck has to be 4 or more points on one side and the other has to have one 3" antler minimum) and two doe tags. If I can get 2-3 deer I'm good. Thanks to everyone who posted and if there are more comments out there......take it away.

[andy416mag]

My Mother in law and Father in law have a farm in Sanilac county there are so many deer up on their farm that they have rows of corn torn up from the deer, Scouting up there 3 weeks ago I personally seen a herd of 25 in My Father in Laws crops. We needed this early season, Also usually farmers get block permits and I know a few that would just shoot any deer whether it be doe or fawn and just leave it, that sickens me at least this way we got some hunters out that would actually enjoy taking some deer and putting them to good use. Just my 2 cents on the issue

[kaylorinhi]

In NC we can take:
Bow opened Sep 15 here, MZL Oct1, and gun Oct 15. Just got my license two nights ago:
2 hunters choice
2 antlered
2 non-antlered
2 wild boar
1 bear
2 turkey,
the best part, if you fill your deer tags you get more, just go to the store and request them.

[Gunplummer]

I live in section 5C in Pennsylvania and there is not nearly the deer here that were here 15 years ago. There is more land to hunt in Lehigh county than in Bucks county, so there is a lot more deer in Bucks county. There is almost nowhere to hunt in Bucks county so it is overrun with deer. Lehigh county is really thinned out except for areas that are developed. I usually hunt in 4-C and that has a lot of open land, but the liberal doe tags have pretty much destroyed that section. As for improving the deer "quality", what a bunch of crap. The Pa. Game Commission says the bucks are getting bigger racks but that is due to more guys posting their land and the mania for planting food plots. What it comes down to is always money. The insurance companies, farmers and foresters putting pressure on the Game Commission. All you have to do is look at old pictures and facts in the Game Commissions own publications to see they are full of it. Doe hunting is needed, but not to the extent that it endangers the herd.

[andrew66]

until last year, we have always had a 2nd (antlerless) deer tag. It was available from archery (late aug to november) musket and general season (ends 1st week of dec)
It has helped the deer population alot. There was good balance between bucks and does. the winter of 08-09 was a really harsh one. we had lots of coyotes too, so it thinned the heard out.
I am a meat hunter, so ill take a young doe or buck any day. I do like the bragging rights of antlers, but not worth the tough rotten old buck steaks.

[Deerhunter]

As this relates to the 5C area of PA......one big problem I see is that when they broke the state up into wildlife management units (WMU) it screwed things up. Too many parts of counties in different WMUs. Example....Chester and Montgomery counties have a lot of deer. Lots of houses so the deer are pushed closer together. Plus we get the spill over of deer heading out of Valley Forge in some areas. I have seen herds of 15-20 and sometimes bigger around and on one property we hunt. The problem is that other people around that property wont let you hunt, even with a bow.

Other counties don't have as many deer with more land to hunt yet they fall into WMUs that have other counties with lots of deer. Going back Montgomery and Chester Counties have a lot more deer than Lehigh and Berks. You can shoot a rifle in Lehigh and Berks but not in Montgomery and Chester. This creates a problem when you are giving out 121,000 antlerless tags for that part of PA