S&W Model 1937 Brazilian contract

[rick983]

I just got a very nice S&W Brazilian contract revolver in 45 ACP. I want to shoot this but want to use the 45 AR brass. The problem is AR brass is almost impossible to find now. If I use ACP ammo and the moon clips, is there a difference in accuracy versus using the auto rim brass?

[Mike Irwin]

I've never noticed any difference at all in mine.

[aarondhgraham]

But what is a Brazilian contract revolver?

[Mike Irwin]

In 1937 government of Brazil ordered a bunch (I forget how many) .45 caliber revolvers, essentially the Model of 1917 but stamped with the Brazilian Federal crest on the side.

Because of the outbreak of World War II these revolvers were delivered in two distinct groups, the first group (I think the majority) were delivered pre-WW II with the old-style hammer block safety. The second group was delivered in 1945-1946 with the new hammer block safety.

Many of these have trickled back into the United States as surplus over the past 20 or so years, some in very nice condition.

Mine, an early model, wasn't in such great external condition, but mechanically it's in great shape.

[rick983]

Where can I get a nice set of original grips for my S&W Brazilian revolver?

[tekarra]

You should probably not notice any appreciable difference in accuracy between the AR and the moonclips.

[Slamfire]

I prefer shooting 45 Auto Rim in my Brazilian Contract because I hate loading and unloading moon clips.

These pistols are not that accurate, they go bang, and will function. Do no hot load these things. These are from an era where unheat treated components were common.

I have chronograph data below, but now I am using 3.5 grains Bullseye with a 250 because I can also shoot the same load in a converted Webley.

Lead bullets of .452” leaded in my barrel. I found the .454 diameter lead bullets to be better.

My Brazilian will shoot to point of aim with standard 230 FMJ ball. It shoots high with heavier bullets.


M1917 Brazilian 5" Barrel

250 LRN (.454) 4.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44°F

Ave Vel = 754
Std Dev = 10
ES = 39.5
Low = 744
High = 783
N = 14
Mild recoil, aimpt 5 OC, accurate

[brian45auto]

These pistols are not that accurate

please.

[Chesster]

This old one never suffered from accuracy problems.

[carguychris]

In 1937 government of Brazil ordered a bunch (I forget how many) .45 caliber revolvers, essentially the Model of 1917 but stamped with the Brazilian Federal crest on the side.

According to the SCSW, there were 25,000 produced.

FWIW the Brazilian "1917s" (1937s?) have rear sights with a squared-off cross-section rather than the arched cross-section of the US Army models. Some shooters prefer the Brazilian models because the square shape makes it easier to tell that the front sight elevation is lined up properly.

[Murdock]

I prefer shooting 45 Auto Rim in my Brazilian Contract because I hate loading and unloading moon clips.

These pistols are not that accurate, they go bang, and will function.

My Brazilian is at least as accurate as my M25-2. I shoot 200-grain cast SWCs exclusively over 5 grains of Bullseye. My gun will handle the same bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique, but I have found that load to be hard on the hand and unnecessary for my purposes. The sights don't line up as quickly as the M25, but you can draw a very fine sight picture in reasonable light.

I have never understood the objection to full moon clips. If I only had one or two clips, I probably wouldn't want to bother either, but they are cheap, so get a couple of dozen. Load them before you leave for the range, and spend your time shooting instead of tediously loading one round at a time. A $5 tool makes them really easy to unload. You can make your own tool easily. I think if you search this forum you can even find pics of some that members have made. You can get a moon clip loader too, but I've never found them to be necessary.

In fact, because the Smiths have a stepped chamber, you can shoot .45 ACP without clips of any kind, and just flick them out individually with your finger nail. (Unless you're a nail biter).

I screwed up once. (Well, actually I have screwed up a lot more than that, but you don't need to know about the other times) and left my 1911 out of my range bag when I went to shoot in a falling plate event. The M1917 was in the bag, however, along with a suitable holster, so I decided to use it. I didn't win that day, but I hit 6, 8" plates at 7 yards in 4.1 seconds, from the leather, with that old gun. A good day, for me.

They are great guns.

[Locoweed]

You said Auto Rim (AR) brass was nearly impossible to find these days. Have you checked with Starline? I can't believe they quit making .45 AR brass.

[Bear Claw Chris]

If these Brazilian ones aren't accurate, somebody forgot to tell the one I had. Kinda scruffy looking on the surface, but would tear up a bullseye just fine.

[radom]

I dont get the idea that they are not accurate as the only differance from a 1917 is the brazilian crest on them. Would sure not shoot hot loads in one but they do have heat treated cylinders and thus are more tolerant of warm loads than a 1917 is.

[Rico567]

My Brazilian contract revolver sure wouldn't win any beauty contests, but is a nice shooting, accurate gun, and I wish my other N-frame had a trigger that nice. When I got it the trigger was rough and the accuracy not good. The side plate came off, and I scrubbed gobs of brown sludge out of the action. When I quit getting the crap, I went to work on the barrel. A standard bronze bristle brush didn't do much. To look at, the thing was a smoothbore! I got hold of a stainless steel brush in .45, and scrubbed the barrel with Hoppes. Lots of black crap was brushed and patched out, and when It acted clean, there was actually some rifling in there....not very deep, but rifling. It will now shoot very well and accurately indeed. The timing needs some work, and maybe one of these days I'll look up a good Smith smith and get that done, too.

[James K]

The guns in the pre-war shipment were Model 1917's. S&W no longer had the tooling set up to make the Model 1917, so they bought revolvers back from the Army to fill the contract. They removed the USP marking from the barrel, removed the U.S. Army butt markings and then refinished the whole gun. They didn't bother to remove the Springfield Armory eagle head inspection marks, and the Brazilian guns still have them.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

"S&W no longer had the tooling set up to make the Model 1917..."

I beg your pardon?

S&W continued production of the commercial model of the 1917 into the 1930s.

My Brazilian contract has no government markings, has a Smith & Wesson logo on the left side of the frame (Gov't models had no logo, commercial production guns had the small logo on the left side of the frame), shows absolutely no signs of any kind of refinishing, has no Government inspection marks, and is well into the middle of the first batch of guns that went to Brazil in late 1938.

Considering the state of the S&W factory at the time (moribund), it would have taken S&W hardly any time at all to convert one of their idle lines back to manufacture these guns new for Brazil, if in fact one was not already dedicated to making the large frame revolvers.

I think you're confusing the first batch of Brazilian contract guns with what S&W did AFTER World War II, which was purchase 10,000 frames from the Govt., which they used to assemble commercial models and, I would assume, the second half of Brazil's order.

[radom]

If I recall things on the correct side after the war ended the govt ended the contacts leaving smith with a lot of 1917 frames that where used for some years making up new guns. One heck of a lot of post war commercial guns have the eagle head proof on them. A lot of the Brazil issue guns are a bit rough on the out side as they did serve in WW-2 in all the way to Berlin.

[Mike Irwin]

"A lot of the Brazil issue guns are a bit rough on the out side as they did serve in WW-2 in all the way to Berlin."

Somehow I doubt that Smith & Wesson would have provided guns to fulfill a commercial contract by a foreign nation that were anything but top quality in finish.

IF US military guns were used to fulfill the Brazilian contract, they would have been thoroughly rehabbed, including a repolish and refinish on the exterior.

[James K]

Hi, Mike,

I think there are still some things we don't know about those Brazilian 1917's and also about the production between wars.

A couple of things I do know. I have a Brazilian contract 1917, serial number 164013. It has Springfield Armory inspectors marks on the frame, barrel and cylinder. The barrel and cylinder serial numbers match the frame. The butt is clean except for the serial number running lengthwise, bottom to the right, and behind the lanyard loop. The signs are subtle, but it looks to me like the butt was welded to cover the original butt markings, and then refinished. There also is no flaming bomb, but again there are indications that it might have been removed. The butt serial number font is larger and different from that used for the U.S. Model 1917.

There is no USP on the barrel, but the barrel at that point is slightly thinner than that of a U.S. Model 1917.

The small S&W trademark is on the left and the Brazilian seal on the sideplate, but those would have been stamped when the gun was prepared for the contract.

Another point is that there is no provision for any hammer block safety; by 1937, the second type hammer block safety was being used for all the large frame S&W revolvers.

The serial number, of course, is well below the range given in SCSW. If the U.S. Model 1917 production total is correct, that gun went to the U.S. Army.

Another point about that between wars production. It is possible that S&W actually made NO Model 1917s in that era. You might recall that Remington was left with enough Model 1917 (Enfield) parts to make some 20,000+ sporting rifles up to WWII.

I suspect the same was true of S&W. They probably had enough surplus parts in various stages of production to keep up assembly for the small commercial market, but when the Brazilian contract came along, they really did buy back revolvers from the Army, at least until they could get production started again.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

"It is possible that S&W actually made NO Model 1917s in that era. You might recall that Remington was left with enough Model 1917 (Enfield) parts to make some 20,000+ sporting rifles up to WWII."

The only problem with that is that during World War I, during much of the production of the 1917 revolver, Smith & Wesson did not run the factory -- the US Government did.

S&W was unable to match the production figures that the military wanted, finally resulting in Gov't intervention in factory operations for the duration of the National Emergency.

All firearms being produced during the Gov't's management were for gov't use -- all civilian production was halted.

At the end of the War, and Gov't management, reports are that the gov't took all finished but unassembled parts, including frames and cylinders as final fulfillment of the outstanding contract obligation.

All subsequent production of Model of 1917s resumed with frames and other parts that were in the production pipeline, but which were unfinished, and as such, had no government or serial number markings at all -- the genesis of the civilian model 1917s.


Your gun would be the only Brazilian contract gun I have ever seen or heard of that began as a US Government gun. None of these I've seen over the years, from all through the production range, showed any evidence at all of either remarking or Government serial numberization.

[Winchester_73]

Your gun would be the only Brazilian contract gun I have ever seen or heard of that began as a US Government gun. None of these I've seen over the years, from all through the production range, showed any evidence at all of either remarking or Government serial numberization.

Well you learn something new everyday - I had always thought the 1937 Brazilian contract guns were US 1917 refurbs which the US sold as surplus guns to Brazil. Glad to now know the truth.

[Mike Irwin]

I agree that it's very interesting, Winchester.

I'm digging through all of the limited resources I have, and granted, while limited, they seem to indicate that Gov't repurchased guns were used for the SECOND half of that order, but not the first half.

[James K]

Mike, I can provide pictures if it will help, but I can assure you the eagle head Springfield Armory marks are there, and I am sure the USP was removed. As to the butt markings being removed, there is a very slight "wave" in the area at the front where the original serial number was deeply stamped, which led me to wonder if it was welded over.

I thought at first the butt markings were just ground off, but a caliper check does not show enough difference between the Brazilian gun and a standard M1917 to allow for that.

It would help to know if the Springfield Armory inspection marks were put on parts at the S&W factory or after the guns were received at SA. Guns often show different inspection marks, but that could mean inspection of parts before assembly or just different inspectors doing different checks on completed guns.

Not to beat the deceased equine, but those eagle head marks are small, and easily overlooked. The only one that stands out is the one on the cylinder; the one on the barrel is back close to the frame and the one on the frame is in the crane recess.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

I can't answer definitively where the inspection marks were put on the gun, but I would suspect that, given that the Gov't was running the show, that the inspectors were right there in the factory.

I know what the inspection marks look like. I also know that my revolver does NOT have any inspection marks, nor does it have any indication that it was ever refinished.

All marks, including the barrel patent stamps, are clear and crisp. The only mark in the crane cut is the assembly floor number. The only mark on the cylinder is the serial number.

There are two marks on the underside of the barrel - one is the original serial number, and the other is the surplus importer's mark, which the idiots stamped right over the serial number.