12GA Rifle From Hell - Page 3

tINY · February 8, 2006, 06:36 PM

Nice how all the dimmensions worked out that way.

-tINY

HUBEL458 · February 8, 2006, 10:42 PM

tINY--It took a little experimenting to get it
figured out to put rim on easy and we still didn't
know well rim would take the forces of reloading
and extraction after firing, until we built guns and
tried them out.And one of my cases fired 33 times,
and Rob's a fairly high pressures and no problems,
makes us very pleased with results..of course the secret
is that we get huge power, without super high pressures that
makes cases want to stick and extract hard.Cases
kinda fall out after firing.Ed.

HUBEL458 · February 11, 2006, 10:01 PM

A lot of 12ga guns are marked 12ga and the length 2 3/4,
3, 3 1/2 on the barrel, so I recommend and did mine
as 12 GA 3 3/4 FH..I found a long plastic shotcup
that holds 2 oz of buckshot and 2.5 oz of bird shot.
Try it out in a couple weeks.Just fill case 60%
with my slow powder, set in shotcup, pour in shot, and put
a 12ga wad on top, as they fit tight.Using cup so
that shot won't lead the rifling.Ed.

CobrayCommando · February 12, 2006, 03:36 AM

Why not name it the Hubel 12? Or the .729 Hubel Thumpenblitzer

HUBEL458 · February 12, 2006, 12:37 PM

Cobray--The cartridge was Rob's idea, and he named it.
I just helped figure out how to do it. I have hairier
wildcat 700HE(Hubel Express) that I will have going soon,
hopefully make me half as famous as Elmer.Ed.

HUBEL458 · February 15, 2006, 01:37 AM

Fired a shotcup full of 18 buckshot,and used a 16ga wad
over shot in the cup.Case 2/3 full of powder.With
rifling and wad had a 3 ft pattern at 25 ft, good redneck
defense load.Your a redneck when your bigbore guns
are singleshot and your safari car is double
barreled...Ed.

CypherNinja · February 16, 2006, 01:54 PM

Dude, thats an awesome project.

I've got a question, whats the twist rate on the barrel?

Have you had any problems shooting the vastly different bullet weights out of the same barrel?

HUBEL458 · February 16, 2006, 05:51 PM

CypherNinja--Twist is 1 to 20 and will stabilize
real heavy(1500gr plus) bullets.The different bullets
and/or sabots would have to be sighted in individually.
If I hunt deer,hogs, or bear I sight it for the 730gr
hard cast Dixie slugs at 2400 fps. Sabots are good but
hard to get and cost more.If used with shot I get
smooth barrel.Ed.

myrondizzo · February 16, 2006, 06:33 PM

hunt deer? wow!! big deer? i gues you want to be able to take them down even if you miss and hit the ground around them?

xjmox14x · February 16, 2006, 06:56 PM

lol Any shot with that thing is a kill shot! Just aim it in the deer's general direction! It may have already been asked, but what's the recoil like on that bad boy?

HUBEL458 · February 19, 2006, 05:24 AM

Recoil not bad, about like a ten lb 458 Lott
And it can be loaded down a little if the critters
are 200 lbs, instead of 1200 like a grizz..Ed.

HUBEL458 · February 20, 2006, 10:36 PM

here is pic of the case that was fired 36 times,
sectioned..No thinning to be seen by eye or measured with
calipers.Brass at our pressure will do couple hundred
firings at least..Ed

HUBEL458 · February 24, 2006, 12:28 AM

Here is picture that shows what us crazies will do to
make wildcats--The short die does bottom of cases and it is made from a 12ga hollywood die cut off--long one does top of case
and it is a cutdown 700NE mouth belling die..I rework taper and inside of dies with the cylinder hone as shown in pic..
The rest of the 700NE dies I cut up to make my 700HE cases.Ed

CypherNinja · February 25, 2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUBEL458

CypherNinja--Twist is 1 to 20 and will stabilize
real heavy(1500gr plus) bullets.The different bullets
and/or sabots would have to be sighted in individually.
If I hunt deer,hogs, or bear I sight it for the 730gr
hard cast Dixie slugs at 2400 fps. Sabots are good but
hard to get and cost more.If used with shot I get
smooth barrel.Ed.

Just to increase my own knowledge a little:

Since the sabotted slugs are smaller than the bore (excluding the sabot) their length is a bit longer than their weight would imply, correct? Meaning, they would stabilize in a barrel with a twist rate closer to what would be needed for, say, those 730gr slugs, right?

Did I get that right? The length of the projectile matters more than the weight in determining the necessary twist rate?

Please excuse this poor n00b.

There're no rifle ranges near me so I know alot more about pistols than rifles. Barrel twist isn't a huge subject amongst the pistol community, I guess.

EDIT: I hope I can get to doing as much wildcatting as you someday.

You rock, dude.

HUBEL458 · February 25, 2006, 09:18 PM

CypherNinja--that is correct.The bullet in the
sabot is 50 cal, and stabilizes same as the 730gr.
In fact that twist would stabilize longer ones also.
Most rifled shotgun barrels are much slower than ours,
and still stabilize those sabots fine, as reported by
hunters who shoot good groups with them..Ed.

HUBEL458 · February 28, 2006, 11:19 AM

CypherNinja--Karl inAUS has great idea.Build heavy double,
with one barrel rifled and other smooth.Ed.

CypherNinja · February 28, 2006, 05:37 PM

Sweet.

You should make one in 900HE.

You make that from straightened 20mm brass, right? What 20mm cartridge are you using?

I've always considered making a 90ish caliber 4-bore a definate "before I die" project. Unfortunately, I don't even have any machine shop equipment yet.

Someday.........

kymasabe · February 28, 2006, 06:14 PM

Can I squirrel hunt with it?
I figure one shot will shoot down the tree and I just need to catch the squirrel.

Really, awesome gun, great work!

HUBEL458 · February 28, 2006, 07:24 PM

CypherNinja-When we do big break actions, single or double,
it will be 4 bore rimmed case that we make from 20mm
Vulcan brass.My 900 when I get to it, will be
on bolt action. It is belted and made from 20mm Hispano
Suiza brass.My 700 is third in pic and 900HE is 4th.Ed.

CypherNinja · February 28, 2006, 07:37 PM

Thats awesome. I'm going back to the gunsmithing forum to learn some more now.

HUBEL458 · February 28, 2006, 11:08 PM

kymasabe-At least you would have a stopper if the whole
herd of squirrels charged.....That high powered
buckshot load should do it.Ed

azzhandler · March 2, 2006, 09:15 AM

any interest in building 1 to sell?

HUBEL458 · March 3, 2006, 12:41 AM

No. I don't do fancy enough work, so I am
not licensed smith. Only do my own and
wildcat testing and developement.Which I
never have time incidently to try all
my screwy ideas.Ed.

HUBEL458 · March 4, 2006, 11:36 PM

Here is pictureof a heavy double we are checking specs
on to see if it would work for 12GA FH.Ed

HUBEL458 · March 7, 2006, 03:12 AM

One party who got a bunch of cases is going to set it up
on a bolt action AR50 upper.Interesting concept.Ed

February 8, 2006, 10:42 PM	#52
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	tINY--It took a little experimenting to get it figured out to put rim on easy and we still didn't know well rim would take the forces of reloading and extraction after firing, until we built guns and tried them out.And one of my cases fired 33 times, and Rob's a fairly high pressures and no problems, makes us very pleased with results..of course the secret is that we get huge power, without super high pressures that makes cases want to stick and extract hard.Cases kinda fall out after firing.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 11, 2006, 10:01 PM	#53
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	A lot of 12ga guns are marked 12ga and the length 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2 on the barrel, so I recommend and did mine as 12 GA 3 3/4 FH..I found a long plastic shotcup that holds 2 oz of buckshot and 2.5 oz of bird shot. Try it out in a couple weeks.Just fill case 60% with my slow powder, set in shotcup, pour in shot, and put a 12ga wad on top, as they fit tight.Using cup so that shot won't lead the rifling.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; February 12, 2006 at 12:33 PM.

February 12, 2006, 12:37 PM	#55
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	Cobray--The cartridge was Rob's idea, and he named it. I just helped figure out how to do it. I have hairier wildcat 700HE(Hubel Express) that I will have going soon, hopefully make me half as famous as Elmer.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 15, 2006, 01:37 AM	#56
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	Fired a shotcup full of 18 buckshot,and used a 16ga wad over shot in the cup.Case 2/3 full of powder.With rifling and wad had a 3 ft pattern at 25 ft, good redneck defense load.Your a redneck when your bigbore guns are singleshot and your safari car is double barreled...Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 16, 2006, 01:54 PM	#57
CypherNinja Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 114	Dude, thats an awesome project. I've got a question, whats the twist rate on the barrel? Have you had any problems shooting the vastly different bullet weights out of the same barrel? __________________ -"Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin -"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison "Violent videogames don't make kids violent. Hard games do."

February 8, 2006, 06:36 PM	#51
tINY Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Location: Orygun Posts: 2,589	Nice how all the dimmensions worked out that way. -tINY

February 12, 2006, 03:36 AM	#54
CobrayCommando Junior member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 1,631	Why not name it the Hubel 12? Or the .729 Hubel Thumpenblitzer

February 16, 2006, 05:51 PM	#58
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	CypherNinja--Twist is 1 to 20 and will stabilize real heavy(1500gr plus) bullets.The different bullets and/or sabots would have to be sighted in individually. If I hunt deer,hogs, or bear I sight it for the 730gr hard cast Dixie slugs at 2400 fps. Sabots are good but hard to get and cost more.If used with shot I get smooth barrel.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 16, 2006, 06:33 PM	#59
myrondizzo Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 50	hunt deer? wow!! big deer? i gues you want to be able to take them down even if you miss and hit the ground around them?

February 16, 2006, 06:56 PM	#60
xjmox14x Member Join Date: January 21, 2006 Location: NY Posts: 98	lol Any shot with that thing is a kill shot! Just aim it in the deer's general direction! It may have already been asked, but what's the recoil like on that bad boy?

February 19, 2006, 05:24 AM	#61
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	Recoil not bad, about like a ten lb 458 Lott And it can be loaded down a little if the critters are 200 lbs, instead of 1200 like a grizz..Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 20, 2006, 10:36 PM	#62
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	here is pic of the case that was fired 36 times, sectioned..No thinning to be seen by eye or measured with calipers.Brass at our pressure will do couple hundred firings at least..Ed __________________ ED HUBEL

February 24, 2006, 12:28 AM	#63
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	Here is picture that shows what us crazies will do to make wildcats--The short die does bottom of cases and it is made from a 12ga hollywood die cut off--long one does top of case and it is a cutdown 700NE mouth belling die..I rework taper and inside of dies with the cylinder hone as shown in pic.. The rest of the 700NE dies I cut up to make my 700HE cases.Ed __________________ ED HUBEL

February 25, 2006, 09:18 PM	#65
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	CypherNinja--that is correct.The bullet in the sabot is 50 cal, and stabilizes same as the 730gr. In fact that twist would stabilize longer ones also. Most rifled shotgun barrels are much slower than ours, and still stabilize those sabots fine, as reported by hunters who shoot good groups with them..Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 28, 2006, 11:19 AM	#66
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	CypherNinja--Karl inAUS has great idea.Build heavy double, with one barrel rifled and other smooth.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 28, 2006, 05:37 PM	#67
CypherNinja Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 114	Sweet. You should make one in 900HE. You make that from straightened 20mm brass, right? What 20mm cartridge are you using? I've always considered making a 90ish caliber 4-bore a definate "before I die" project. Unfortunately, I don't even have any machine shop equipment yet. Someday......... __________________ -"Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin -"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison "Violent videogames don't make kids violent. Hard games do."

February 28, 2006, 06:14 PM	#68
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,475	Can I squirrel hunt with it? I figure one shot will shoot down the tree and I just need to catch the squirrel. Really, awesome gun, great work! __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

February 28, 2006, 07:24 PM	#69
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	CypherNinja-When we do big break actions, single or double, it will be 4 bore rimmed case that we make from 20mm Vulcan brass.My 900 when I get to it, will be on bolt action. It is belted and made from 20mm Hispano Suiza brass.My 700 is third in pic and 900HE is 4th.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

February 28, 2006, 07:37 PM	#70
CypherNinja Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 114	Thats awesome. I'm going back to the gunsmithing forum to learn some more now. __________________ -"Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin -"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison "Violent videogames don't make kids violent. Hard games do."

February 28, 2006, 11:08 PM	#71
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	kymasabe-At least you would have a stopper if the whole herd of squirrels charged.....That high powered buckshot load should do it.Ed __________________ ED HUBEL

March 2, 2006, 09:15 AM	#72
azzhandler Member Join Date: September 14, 2005 Posts: 27	any interest in building 1 to sell?

March 3, 2006, 12:41 AM	#73
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	No. I don't do fancy enough work, so I am not licensed smith. Only do my own and wildcat testing and developement.Which I never have time incidently to try all my screwy ideas.Ed. __________________ ED HUBEL

March 4, 2006, 11:36 PM	#74
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	Here is pictureof a heavy double we are checking specs on to see if it would work for 12GA FH.Ed __________________ ED HUBEL

March 7, 2006, 03:12 AM	#75
HUBEL458 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Posts: 744	One party who got a bunch of cases is going to set it up on a bolt action AR50 upper.Interesting concept.Ed __________________ ED HUBEL

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