Laser sight on rifle - Page 2

**JohnKSa** · February 7, 2024, 04:10 PM

The initial backwards recoil happens from the piston driving forward under the force of the metal or gas spring to compress the air. I don't believe it is going to cause scope damage, but it's definitely there. The piston probably weighs around a pound in a strong springer and is driven forward by a very powerful spring.

As far as recoil from the actual projectile goes, that's essentially negligible in a spring piston gun. The noticeable recoil is from the movement of the piston.

You are correct that the forward "recoil" due to the piston coming to an abrupt stop at the end of its compression stroke is what causes trouble with scopes.

tangolima · February 7, 2024, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

The initial backwards recoil happens from the piston driving forward under the force of the metal or gas spring to compress the air. I don't believe it is going to cause scope damage, but it's definitely there. The piston probably weighs around a pound in a strong springer and is driven forward by a very powerful spring.

As far as recoil from the actual projectile goes, that's essentially negligible in a spring piston gun. The noticeable recoil is from the movement of the piston.

You are correct that the forward "recoil" due to the piston coming to an abrupt stop at the end of its compression stroke is what causes trouble with scopes.

You are right. I overlooked the backward recoil caused by piston accelerates forward. Thanks.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Recycled bullet · February 28, 2024, 04:47 PM

Is it the back and forth recoil or is it the harsh vibrations that cause springer air rifles to eat scopes?

**JohnKSa** · February 29, 2024, 12:39 AM

The gas piston guns which have little or no vibration will also eat scopes that aren't braced properly, so the odd recoil is at least part of it.

I doubt that the vibration from the spring in the spring-piston guns is good for scopes either.

armoredman · February 29, 2024, 04:58 AM

Quote:

I've seen those ads, too. Back then, laser sights were about the size of a carton of cigarettes, were mounted under rifle barrels, and at least one model was marketed with prison guards in mind.
The idea being that the visible dot would also be a deterrent, and I'm sure it was.

However, prison inmates know they are under observation, and knew the guards had laser sights, so were aware of the dot and its meaning. A laser sight's primary function is as a sighting device. A secondary function as a deterrent only works when the subject knows its there.

Interesting. In over 22 years behind the wire I have never seen a laser sight on any firearms here, not regular issue, not tactical issue or specialty issue. Red dots and scopes, sure, never a laser. Never heard of that one before. I did have Crimson Trace grips on my CZ P-01 MANY years ago, and it was really not that much help.

Picher · February 29, 2024, 05:26 PM

The only problem with having a laser on a seldom-used house defense handgun is that by the time you need it for an emergency, the battery may be dead!!! We all like toys, even those that take batteries, but at my age, I'm not so good about changing the batteries in my flashlights, much less laser sights on guns that I don't use often.

**44 AMP** · March 1, 2024, 03:12 AM

What kills scopes on certain airguns is the shock of the sudden stop in the forward (towards the muzzle) direction. Firearms scopes are made to handle the recoil even from the hardest kickers in the usual direction, but most are not made to handle the energy in the opposite direction.

Some scopes are built to take the force in both directions. Airgun scopes, and I understand Archery scopes are made that way.

I see laser sights as a "double edged sword" in the sense that while there are obvious advantages, there are disadvantages as well. I know training and practice does work, but I would need more than a bit to overcome a lifetime of regular iron sight use, and until I mastered that, I would be "hunting for the dot" which is not a good thing in a defensive situation.

However I also see a downside to being well trained to using the dot, and that is what happens when there is no dot??

If the laser fails (for any reason) or if you (for whatever reason) are using a weapon without the laser, and you've trained extensively to use the laser, I think that could be a disadvantage if your mind (conscious or subconscious) follows its training and focuses on finding the dot, that isn't there...

For sport, and recreation I enjoy using a variety of guns with various sighting systems, and controls in different places and different methods of operation.

For defense, and firearms intended to be useful when you don't have time to think about it, I think one standard is the best way to go.

**JohnKSa** · March 1, 2024, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Some scopes are built to take the force in both directions. Airgun scopes, and I understand Archery scopes are made that way.

There are some mainline scope companies that brace their scopes properly to stand up to spring-piston/gas-piston recoil. If I recall correctly, Leupold is one example.

rickyrick · March 9, 2024, 11:01 PM

I watched The Terminator again today after many years and the laser on its 45 pistol was ginormous.

February 7, 2024, 04:10 PM	#26
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,004	The initial backwards recoil happens from the piston driving forward under the force of the metal or gas spring to compress the air. I don't believe it is going to cause scope damage, but it's definitely there. The piston probably weighs around a pound in a strong springer and is driven forward by a very powerful spring. As far as recoil from the actual projectile goes, that's essentially negligible in a spring piston gun. The noticeable recoil is from the movement of the piston. You are correct that the forward "recoil" due to the piston coming to an abrupt stop at the end of its compression stroke is what causes trouble with scopes. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 29, 2024, 12:39 AM	#29
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,004	The gas piston guns which have little or no vibration will also eat scopes that aren't braced properly, so the odd recoil is at least part of it. I doubt that the vibration from the spring in the spring-piston guns is good for scopes either. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 1, 2024, 03:12 AM	#32
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,870	What kills scopes on certain airguns is the shock of the sudden stop in the forward (towards the muzzle) direction. Firearms scopes are made to handle the recoil even from the hardest kickers in the usual direction, but most are not made to handle the energy in the opposite direction. Some scopes are built to take the force in both directions. Airgun scopes, and I understand Archery scopes are made that way. I see laser sights as a "double edged sword" in the sense that while there are obvious advantages, there are disadvantages as well. I know training and practice does work, but I would need more than a bit to overcome a lifetime of regular iron sight use, and until I mastered that, I would be "hunting for the dot" which is not a good thing in a defensive situation. However I also see a downside to being well trained to using the dot, and that is what happens when there is no dot?? If the laser fails (for any reason) or if you (for whatever reason) are using a weapon without the laser, and you've trained extensively to use the laser, I think that could be a disadvantage if your mind (conscious or subconscious) follows its training and focuses on finding the dot, that isn't there... For sport, and recreation I enjoy using a variety of guns with various sighting systems, and controls in different places and different methods of operation. For defense, and firearms intended to be useful when you don't have time to think about it, I think one standard is the best way to go. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 9, 2024, 11:01 PM	#34
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	I watched The Terminator again today after many years and the laser on its 45 pistol was ginormous. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

February 28, 2024, 04:47 PM	#28
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 342	Is it the back and forth recoil or is it the harsh vibrations that cause springer air rifles to eat scopes?

February 29, 2024, 05:26 PM	#31
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,695	The only problem with having a laser on a seldom-used house defense handgun is that by the time you need it for an emergency, the battery may be dead!!! We all like toys, even those that take batteries, but at my age, I'm not so good about changing the batteries in my flashlights, much less laser sights on guns that I don't use often.