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Old July 20, 2023, 08:02 PM   #26
osbornk
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Very pleased with my 45 Tisas Army. Paid $309 on sale at Rural King
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Old July 20, 2023, 08:23 PM   #27
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We should rename this the TISAS thread lol
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Old July 21, 2023, 08:36 AM   #28
Jim Watson
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A Tisas enthusiast should have one fully customized.
I saw some fine work done by good shops back when the Norinco was the Good Buy.
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Old July 22, 2023, 08:21 AM   #29
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A Tisas enthusiast should have one fully customized.
I saw some fine work done by good shops back when the Norinco was the Good Buy.
Tisas introduced a Match version that has just about every customization you can imagine.
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Old July 22, 2023, 09:33 AM   #30
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Well, it has a lot of the features common on custom guns, but it doesn't have the refinements of a true custom. Look at the gap under that beavertail. I doubt it has the tight fit and smooth movement of a honed action. There are some people who just have to spend more money to get their money's worth, so to speak.

I have simpler tastes. I could probably get by with a Tisas Match with only a trigger adjustment and the fibre optic front sight I am used to. Probably dull the keen machine checkering.
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Old July 22, 2023, 09:35 AM   #31
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Tisas introduced a Match version that has just about every customization you can imagine.
For that money, better off with a Bul.
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Old July 22, 2023, 10:37 AM   #32
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I only keep older Colts, like over 50yrs old. In last couple years had Ruger SR1911 in both .45 & 10mm. The .45 was Commander model and it functioned and shot well for accuracy.
The 10mm was Target model and was exceptional shooter. If it had been 45 I would have kept it.
Also had several Springfields, just Mil-Spec models but shot and functioned as well as my Colts. If I wanted a deal on a 1911 the used market has a lot of Rugers & Springfields for
$500-$600 range. I’ve not bought any of these new but they were like new in factory cases.
I’m not much on buying imported clones. With Ruger & Springfield you are buying American and your gun will maintain value.
If truth was known better than 50% of handguns are bought more less on whims. Like a new puppy it is played with for a few months and put up on a shelf. This is where the deals are at.
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Old July 22, 2023, 11:19 AM   #33
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For that money, better off with a Bul.
What money? To get adjustable sights etc. on a Bul Trophy the list price is $1750 vs $1050 for the Tisas Match.

Based on local reports, the Bul is very likely worth the extra $700 or buy a Bul Government for $850 and get the fixed sights us Operators need for Hard Use anyhow.
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Old July 22, 2023, 02:18 PM   #34
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What money? To get adjustable sights etc. on a Bul Trophy the list price is $1750 vs $1050 for the Tisas Match.
I've shot a Tisas Match against a base Bul, the Bul is much better. $100 for a set of adjustable/Fiber Optic front sight and you are still less than a Tisas Match.

I guess I have never understood the concept of buy a cheap gun, then try to make it perform like the next tier up...for more money.
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Old July 22, 2023, 05:41 PM   #35
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Tisas introduced a Match version that has just about every customization you can imagine.
That’s a ton of money for a Turkish pistol. Getting a little ridiculous I’d say.
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Old July 22, 2023, 06:16 PM   #36
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Well, it has a lot of the features common on custom guns, but it doesn't have the refinements of a true custom.
.

Yeah not even close. Lots of production guns have these features. As you know, features don’t equal quality. They are completely separate.
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Old July 22, 2023, 07:21 PM   #37
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That’s a ton of money for a Turkish pistol. Getting a little ridiculous I’d say.
Agree totally.
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Old July 22, 2023, 08:03 PM   #38
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There are lots of good to great 1911s out there and you generally can’t go badly wrong. I personally would avoid Taurus because of parts breakage with the one I bought and their longstanding reputation for middling quality control, bad metal and slow service.

But if you are partial to Ruger or Kimber, I say go ahead. My Ruger Commander was good and from what I read they generally do a good job on their 1911s.

Kimber gets some criticism in this thread but I have owned four of them and they’ve all been good. They are maybe charging a bit for styling rather than pure performance sometimes but they usually look really nice, so if one particularly appeals to you why not. People pay more for stylish cars. They don’t all have to be just dull and reliable . And my Kimbers have been fine in terms of reliability and quality.

Fusion I think is a new company. Don’t know its reputation.

I am impressed by what I read about Tisas, and I note Palmetto State Armory seems to be giving away Rock Islands these days. If you have an issue with a 1911 there are plenty of gunsmiths to diagnose and help fix, you are not limited to returning to the distributor or factory.

Last edited by Mosin44az; July 22, 2023 at 08:15 PM.
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Old July 23, 2023, 12:36 AM   #39
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Fusion I think is a new company. Don’t know its reputation.
Unless there's a new Fusion that I don't know about, when CZ bought out Dan Wesson the former CEO of Dan Wesson established a company called Fusion that made parts and kits for 1911s. A lot of people at the time seemed to think Fusion parts were pretty good -- I wasn't one of them.
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Old July 23, 2023, 02:54 AM   #40
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Just yesterday I was at my daughters and shot her hubby's new 1911 45, really enjoyed shooting it and it was quite accurate.
Ask your son in law what gun it is. Meaning who made it and what model it is.

What are you looking for in a 1911 pattern gun?? all the race gun /combat bells & whistles? something more GI? Its all out there, with quality and price points that are all over the map.
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Old July 23, 2023, 07:09 AM   #41
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Well, this nay not be what you want to hear. Most 1911’s IME are not Glock or M&P reliable, but a few are…..IME, those are made by Dan Wesson and Colt. I have 2 DW’s and a Colt. My DW Specialist custom(from CZ) is the finest 1911 45 I’ve ever shot. Which includes some rental Wilsons and Ed Browns.

I have never bought or shot a Turkish 1911, but understand the reason guns are made in turkey is not state of the art engineering and machining. Nor is craftsmanship following a long line of gun builders like London. Guns are made there because the labor is cheap. With cheap labor you can put stuff together with cheap parts and try to fit it to work as a gun. I have looked at 100’s of those Turkish o/u shotguns. Most don’t even open and close at the action right. Trigger pulls are inconsistent gun to gun. The mechanisms feel harsh. I cried and bought a used Browning. It runs like a champ. I do think the higher end stuff like Weatherby, CZ, Yildiz may be ok. I would guess they filter out the imports somehow so you are less likely to get a bad one. Do the 1911’s exceed that mark. I doubt it, but I don’t have enough experience. The few I’ve handled did not.

Kimber is an odd brand. They make basically one gun. The bulk of their price variation is in colors, grips, frame and slide decorative machining. At $800, you get a pile of MIM parts thrown together that generally runs ok. At $3000, you get that same pile of MIM recolored with plastic grips. The ones that run are ok. The ones that don’t, ….God help you.

Springfield Armory makes a decent gun if you accept it as is or pay them to fix/customize it. I think they have ended the full custom shop and maybe do packages now. I had one. It is a pile of parts now. It started out unreliable, poor trigger, scary dangerously short sear engagement, hard to put back together, poi about 6” low, ….. I sent it back. They made the sear spring stiffer to allow the scary little sear engagement to not hammer follow without fixing that. It was much more reliable after it came back. So I started a project which remains incomplete….I’m demoralized. My buddy’s sits in about the same shape. I had another older 90’s 3.5” Compact that worked quite well, but it came to me in good shape except it needed a recoil spring and mags.

I had a Rock Island GI from the 2013 time range. It was a solid pistol. It was good, but never great. It would have some kind of failure about 1 in 200 rounds. Fun to shoot. Trigger was horrible. They have improved that.

So, my money stays with Colt and CZ. I can see buying a higher end custom like Alchemy. …..or maybe an Ed Baer someday, but not now. Other than great bluing, I can’t see much to improve over my duty treat DW’s.
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Old July 23, 2023, 09:16 AM   #42
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Unless there's a new Fusion that I don't know about, when CZ bought out Dan Wesson the former CEO of Dan Wesson established a company called Fusion that made parts and kits for 1911s. A lot of people at the time seemed to think Fusion parts were pretty good -- I wasn't one of them.
I've seen a lot of folks have issues with Fusion. Both of the master smiths I respect are no-go on Fusion.
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Old July 23, 2023, 09:25 AM   #43
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Well, this nay not be what you want to hear. Most 1911’s IME are not Glock or M&P reliable, but a few are…..IME, those are made by Dan Wesson and Colt. I have 2 DW’s and a Colt. My DW Specialist custom(from CZ) is the finest 1911 45 I’ve ever shot. Which includes some rental Wilsons and Ed Browns.
But, generally good advice. I'm just not a Colt fan for reasons other than their actual firearm quality. With the new ownership, we will see. I hope that CZ can restore Colt while keeping CZ and DW flush with quality guns and service.

DW, Ruger and Bul are the three, at their price points, I typically suggest. When it gets into several thousand, I suggest Volkmann and Wilson. I've owned several and shot a lot of the other brands, and Wilson does make really nice, and reliable 1911s. I guess I still have a little sour taste in that Wilson (decades ago) could not make 10mm work and that was the primary reason 10mm was excluded from CDP in IDPA. But, their 10mms run like a top now. Ed Brown also good, but some significant changes their just recently. Les Baer, just too damn tight. Running 1K rounds with lapping compound just does not sit right with me, and I am not a fan of wall hangers and safe queens.
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Old July 23, 2023, 10:27 AM   #44
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Other than great bluing, I can’t see much to improve over my duty treat DW’s.
DW’s are great production 1911’s and I’ve seen a big improvement in Colt since the CZ acquisition. However, they aren’t in the league with Alchemy or the various other semi custom offerings. It’s more than just the finish.

I will say they are an excellent value for the dollar though.

Last edited by bac1023; July 23, 2023 at 10:40 AM.
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Old July 23, 2023, 11:07 AM   #45
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Kimber is an odd brand. They make basically one gun. The bulk of their price variation is in colors, grips, frame and slide decorative machining. At $800, you get a pile of MIM parts thrown together that generally runs ok. At $3000, you get that same pile of MIM recolored with plastic grips. The ones that run are ok. The ones that don’t, ….God help you.

W’s.
I've never understood this forum sentiment. It is as irrational as it is flat wrong. Kimber is by far the largest US manufacturer of 1911s, offering more variations and refinements at a good price point.
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Old July 23, 2023, 11:16 AM   #46
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I've never understood this forum sentiment. It is as irrational as it is flat wrong. Kimber is by far the largest US manufacturer of 1911s, offering more variations and refinements at a good price point.
What’s not to understand? Kimber’s entry level guns aren’t bad. After that it’s money paid for style over substance. They need to improve quality before worrying about the goofy styling.

Bottom line: Low end quality for mid range prices. No thanks
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Old July 23, 2023, 11:19 AM   #47
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Kimber is an odd brand. They make basically one gun.
So does everybody at the mass production level.
Is a Baer 'Hemi' a better gun than a PII, or mechanically different for the extra $800?
W.W. Greener commented on that over a hundred years ago, "the machine made gun."
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Old July 23, 2023, 11:33 AM   #48
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What’s not to understand? Kimber’s entry level guns aren’t bad. After that it’s money paid for style over substance. They need to improve quality before worrying about the goofy styling.

Bottom line: Low end quality for mid range prices. No thanks
Unless you have data to back it up, your comment about quality is meaningless.
And that is why I used the word "irrational".
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Old July 23, 2023, 12:43 PM   #49
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I can appreciate the positive sentiment towards Kimber. There are many owners and many are happy.

Generally when you spend more money on a 1911, you get better part quality, better fitting and better finish. Kimber MIM parts are not fitted. They appear by markings to be from on set of molds…..Every part appears assembled as it came from the mold or machine….The super high end Kimbers exhibit no finer smoothness running the slide, tightness of fit, smoothness of lockwork, or finish quality. They are just the same gun.

A low end Baer vs a high end will change things like single side to ambi, 2.5” to 1.5” accuracy guarantee, higher quality surface prep for premium bluing, and adjustable sights. There are other things too….my point is there is just more and the parts used are top shelf.

Colt makes a basic gun and the Wiley Clapp for example. The Wiley Clapp is sent off for checkering, trigger is a bit better, front sight is a brass bead, rear sight is upgraded to Novak rear, better grips, etc…..my point is the extra money buys feature content.

If you want a Kimber, please ignore my posts, ignore the gunsmiths that won’t work on them, ignore Kimber who won’t warrantee them for more than a year??, ignore the posters on every 1911 forum struggling with their Kimber, because like my 2 friends, maybe you will get the one that works…..or not run it hard enough to prove it doesn’t.
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Old July 23, 2023, 04:00 PM   #50
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A low end Baer vs a high end will change things like single side to ambi, 2.5” to 1.5” accuracy guarantee, higher quality surface prep for premium bluing, and adjustable sights.
The entry Baer, the Premier II has ambi safety and adjustable sights.
They charge $295 extra for the 1.5" "guarantee" on anything, even the wadcutter target model.
.38 or 9mm is $400 more than .45.
It is kind of like a new car, the options and accessories have a lot higher markup than the vehicle.
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