There's Nothing New Under The Sun

[GeauxTide]

Finally got a look at some 6.5 PRC data and chuckled. I get the same performance from my 1988 vintage, long throated 6.5-06. Plain ole 30-06 brass. Shoots 129s to 3170 and 140s to 2935.

[nhyrum]

Different strokes for different folks.

So, you posted just to ████ on the 6.5 prc? Cool story bro

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[USSR]

Shoots 129s to 3170 and 140s to 2935.

I got the same velocity with 140's in my Match 6.5x55.

Don

[nhyrum]

Last I checked, neither the -06 or x55 are a short action either

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[hounddawg]

check out the specs on .260 Rem and 6.5 CM. Rem has a case capacity that is slightly larger and CM has a different shoulder angle. The Rem is a great cartridge but was never all that popular being sandwiched between the .308 and the .243. However Hornady has managed to convince everyone the Creedmoor is the best cartridge ever invented and is made with pixie dust and Viagra. Put the specs of the two side by side and the Rem beats the CM by a hair on velocity. It's all in the marketing

BTW this is not a attempt to defecate on the CM, just pointing out how similar the two are. I was shooting the .260 before the CM became popular and have seen no compelling reason to buy new brass and dies to switch over. Both are good cartridges and if I were just getting in the 6.5 game I would probably go CM just for the wider availability of factory ammo unless I needed a slightly higher velocity than I could get with a CM

I got the same velocity with 140's in my Match 6.5x55.

just out of curiosity what powder are you using? Best I can get out of my Rems safely is in the mid to upper 2700's with 29 inch barrels. I can squeeze it over 3K with 120's but that is pushing it. For safe loads over 3K I have to drop down to 107's with Benchmark.

Only time I got it over 3K with 140's was using some bad (Hogdon factory) data and darn near blew a primer completely out of the case. Had to back the charge down 2 - 3 gns to Hogdon's CM data for it to shoot safe

[Unclenick]

Here, without tolerances, are the numbers off the SAAMI drawings for comparison:

[hounddawg]

The 6.5 x 55 does have the largest case capacity according to Wiki. 6.5 x 55 is 57.9 gns, the 260 is 53.5 and the CM 52.5

[GeauxTide]

As always, thanks Unclenick for the comparision. Had a 260 long before the Creed. My best load is with RL19 under 129 Hornadys. My Savage 16 is short throated, so I'm still experimenting with seating depth. I got a Hornady OAL tool for precise measure because I'm shooting just off the lands and showing pressure on the primers at 2gr off the 47gr Hornaday X Max.

[FrankenMauser]

So, you posted just to █ on the 6.5 prc? Cool story bro

Last I checked, neither the -06 or x55 are a short action either

A little sensitive about your 6.5mm cartridges?

You may need to cover your eyes, because I'm about to write something that may turn your head inside out.

They're all .270s.
130-140 gr bullets at 2,900 to 3,060 fps. 150/154 gr bullets at 2,800-2,900 fps.

6.5x55, 6.5-06, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-284, and the list goes on.
They're all .270s.

[USSR]

Quote:
I got the same velocity with 140's in my Match 6.5x55.

just out of curiosity what powder are you using? Best I can get out of my Rems safely is in the mid to upper 2700's with 29 inch barrels.

hounddawg,

I was using N160 with the 139 - 142gr bullets. The barrel is a 28 inch Obermeyer.

Don

[USSR]

Unclenick,

SAAMI specs are all well and good, but my 6.5x55 Obermeyer has a custom chamber cut by Terry Cross.

Don

[Pathfinder45]

I agree with Frankenmauser on this one. The 24" barreled 270 Winchester I use actually delivers a bit better; with optimum propellants I have settled into loads that, if I want maximums, clock out thusly:

130 grain bullets at 3,200 fps

140 grain bullets at 3,100 fps

150 grain bullets at 3,000 fps

I usually run the 130's slower because if I really want maximum power, I will be using heavier bullet anyway.

[Radny97]

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

A little sensitive about your 6.5mm cartridges?

You may need to cover your eyes, because I'm about to write something that may turn your head inside out.

They're all .270s.
130-140 gr bullets at 2,900 to 3,060 fps. 150/154 gr bullets at 2,800-2,900 fps.

6.5x55, 6.5-06, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-284, and the list goes on.
They're all .270s.

Yep


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[nhyrum]

I'm not sensitive about anything. Hell, I don't even own want 6.5's any more. But who the hell cares what someone else shoots. A 140 going 2900 is a 140 going 2900. Doesn't matter the case it comes out of. Different strokes for different strokes.

Or are you looking for a "you were right I was wrong, 270 is the king of the universe"?

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[Pathfinder45]

There's Nothing New Under The Sun

Simply recognizing the inherent truth of this statement, in spite of the fact that there is always something new. Like the 6.8 Western; what an innovation!(yawn...)
Nothing to get all excited or offended about....

[Unclenick]

Same weight, same velocity bullets of different diameters have different sectional densities. For same-nose, same-tail-shaped bullets, as sectional density goes up, so does the ballistic coefficient. In the case of the 6.5 vs .270, this difference is only about 5%, but some long-range shooters will pick one bullet over another for differences that small (though only the best shots are likely to gain a point from it here and there).

[nhyrum]

If it's all the same in the end, what does it matter if someone shoots basically what you shoot, just with a different name?

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[Unclenick]

But it's not just a different name. With the .270 it's also a different diameter. That was my point. You may be hard-pressed to see any practical difference close up, but the smaller .264" would go about 5% further before going sub-sonic, for example.

A more practical difference will likely be that all the exact same bullet designs are not available in both calibers. Among the SAAMI standard chambers and rifling pitches, the 260 Rem with standard 9" twist, have been known not to stabilize the longest available bullets adequately. So the differences really come down to the details of what you want to put through them and how far away you need to hit the target. Mind you, as with Don's rifle, customization takes all the limits off the table.

[nhyrum]

I know they're different diameters. A 270 isn't a 6.5. but still, what the hell does it matter what someone else shoots? Someone wants to think their 6.5 prc is the greatest thing in the world? So what. Someone thinks the 30-06 is God's gift to man kind? Who cares. As for "nothing new under the sun" we don't all drive cars with wooden wheels. Are steel belted radials "reinventing the wheel"? Progress isn't instantaneous. If you think all has been found that will ever be found, take a look outside

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[FrankenMauser]

I'm not sensitive about anything. Hell, I don't even own want 6.5's any more. But who the hell cares what someone else shoots. A 140 going 2900 is a 140 going 2900. Doesn't matter the case it comes out of. Different strokes for different strokes.

Or are you looking for a "you were right I was wrong, 270 is the king of the universe"?

If it's all the same in the end, what does it matter if someone shoots basically what you shoot, just with a different name?

I know they're different diameters. A 270 isn't a 6.5. but still, what the hell does it matter what someone else shoots? Someone wants to think their 6.5 prc is the greatest thing in the world? So what.

It matters when your only response in a thread is to crap all over the post, by claiming that the person is "pooping" all over a certain cartridge, while failing at attempting to be "edgy".

Stop backpedaling and defend your position.
You're digging a hole.

This is the most hypocritical combination of responses that I have ever seen on TFL.

If you can't add to the discussion, don't respond.
What you're doing is what other parts of the internet call sh$%-posting.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by nhyrum

I know they're different diameters. A 270 isn't a 6.5. but still, what the hell does it matter what someone else shoots?

I think, often, someone wins matches with a particular cartridge and then people invest a bit too much credit for the win in the cartridge and not enough in the skill of the shooter that day, and will copy the cartridge choice. And sometimes it works out that the particular combination of ballistics really does raise scores by a few points, which is all that is needed to motivate the target shooter. This is down to details, of course. Also, with the 6.5 CM, which the military is adopting, the Special Operations Command snipers doubled their hit probabilities with it, and that suggests some human factors aspect of the cartridge are apparently good for a target score.

Someone wants to think their 6.5 prc is the greatest thing in the world? So what. Someone thinks the 30-06 is God's gift to man kind? Who cares. As for "nothing new under the sun" we don't all drive cars with wooden wheels. Are steel belted radials "reinventing the wheel"? Progress isn't instantaneous. If you think all has been found that will ever be found, take a look outside

Not sure how you are reading all that into the posts. Anyone looking at the enormous array of cartridges available will realize most of them represent small incremental changes over others and not the reinvention of the wheel. As to who cares, I addressed one possibility already, but the simple answer is, anyone who, for whatever reason, is interested in the opinions of others on the matter.

[FrankenMauser]

Yep.
I have several cartridges that all fit into the "they're all .270s" category.
But I use every one of them differently.
Each has its place, even if that is only determined by which rifle is chambered for it.

[GTOne]

I think, often, someone wins matches with a particular cartridge and then people invest a bit too much credit for the win in the cartridge and not enough in the skill of the shooter that day, and will copy the cartridge choice.

It goes for almost anything there is a competition over. Whoever wins must have done it with a better thing and not through skill or experience.

That only matters at top tier levels. That old saying, it isn't the arrows, it is the indian.

[jmr40]

How many factory 6.5-06 or 6.5X55 rifles or factory ammo that will do that. Not everyone wants a custom rifle or to handload out of spec ammo to fit them. And that is the real difference.

Heck, the 6.5 CM was developed to offer the performance shooters were getting from custom 260's The 6.5 PRC was designed to do the same with 6.5-06. Nothing new about this. The 300 Savage duplicated 1920's 30-06 loads in a different package. The 308 duplicated 1950's 30-06 loads in a different package. The 300 WM duplicated 300 H&H in a different package and the 300 WSM took it a step further.

The 24" barreled 270 Winchester I use actually delivers a bit better; with optimum propellants I have settled into loads that, if I want maximums, clock out thusly:

130 grain bullets at 3,200 fps

140 grain bullets at 3,100 fps

150 grain bullets at 3,000 fps

Typical 270 140 gr bullet--.496 BC
Typical 6.5 143 gr bullet--.625 BC

150 gr 270 bullet--.525 BC
153 gr 6.5 bullet-- .704 BC

Compare the speeds down range a bit.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own, nor want a 270, 6.5X55, or a 6.5 PRC. I do sorta like the 6.5 CM, but even it hasn't replaced my 308. But the advantages are there.

[Mike Irwin]

"Finally got a look at some 6.5 PRC data and chuckled. I get the same performance from my 1988 vintage, long throated 6.5-06. Plain ole 30-06 brass. Shoots 129s to 3170 and 140s to 2935."

6.5x68mm has been doing that since the 1930s....