Is your home defense shotgun pump or semi-auto? - Page 2

Ruger4570 · February 14, 2006, 12:40 PM

I use a Berreta 390 w/28 guage barrel. I could never see buying a seperate HD gun that had no other sporting purpose than sitting in my house waiting for the possibility of an intruder. My house was broken into a couple of months ago, the jerks were at least smart enough to be sure I wasn't home and I am sure they rang the doorbell several times too, just to be sure I wasn't there. I often wonder about the extended magazines and their actual usefulness. If for some reason a crook was DUMB enough to enter my home while I was there, I would not be standing up confronting him, I would be on the floor (where a semi is required to self load and not reveal myself),where he isn't going to expect me to be, behind as much wall or cover as possible. The last thing I am going to do is rack a round in (to scare him)so he gets the opportunity to know where I am. If he is facing me with a gun, I will simply shoot him, if his back is to me I will give him the chance to hit the floor voluntarily, if not, he will hit the floor anyways. I don't think in any case I would need more than 2 rounds to neutralize the threat, much less 6 to 8 shots. The high capacity short shotties look cool and mean, but I don't think a HD situation is going to be a recreation of the Alamo or D-day. I trust my 390 to function every trigger pull with no additional work on my part or have to expose my body to a perp. I have shot the 390, 1000's of times skeet shooting and it has never failed to function, never. I have heard ALL the stories why pump guns are better, I just don't buy it. I think it is about seeing too much TV and close ups of people shucking shells. Anyhow, that is my opinion..... let my flaming begin

Dozerpilot · February 14, 2006, 12:41 PM

18" 870 here. If I had the money it would have been a Super 90 instead.

swmike · February 14, 2006, 01:12 PM

Did a lot of Trapshooting with an 1100. No matter how clean and well maintained, the semi's seem to have more misfires than the pumps. Dirty gas cylinder or powder residue in firing pin/spring assy was main cause. Shooting for fun can tolerate these misfires. In a semi, one has to take one hand off the weapon and cycle the bolt. On a pump, not so. Rack in another round (if it ever does misfire) and get back to business.

Another factor for me. My 1100 only held 5 in the mag tube. My Mossy 500-ATP8 holds 8. If it turns into a running battle I have 5 more on the stock and 25 in a bandolier.

Ruger4570 · February 14, 2006, 08:16 PM

I have owned several 1100's in my life. and as long as they were clean,,they worked. In your post you say,,, dirty this and dirty that, sorry, if the gun is halfway clean it will work. I wouldn't expect any dirty gun to function for me, that is whY I clean them after use. I have shot many 1000's of shots with auto's and never had a problem. I think the problem is with those that just don't like semi's and are convinced pumps are better. I wonder why the Army, Marines etc don't have pump rifles if auto's are so inferior and prone to not working. As far as a running battle goes, what are the chances of that. Seriously, you catch a perp in your house, how many shots will it take to end it. What makes you think if you don't get the first shot off, you will get a chance at a second or a third or more shots much less a running battle. C'mon guys, this isn't a Rambo movie. If you want a pump, God bless you, but please stop knocking auto's as being useless, it simply shows your lack of knowledge about them and their dependability. A clean auto will perform every time,, period, everything else is simply BS and some kind of Macho thinking.

kjmbear67 · February 14, 2006, 11:56 PM

Quote:

I wonder why the Army, Marines etc don't have pump rifles if auto's are so inferior and prone to not working.

Is this true? I thought that the Army and Marines used Remington 870s and/or Mossberg 590s...

jhgreasemonkey · February 15, 2006, 12:39 PM

I HAVE A FRIEND WHO SERVES IN THE U.S. SPECIAL FORCES AND HE TOLD ME THAT THEY ALWAYS LIKE TO EQUIP ONE MAN ON THEIR FIRE TEAM WITH A PUMP 12 GUAGE SHOTGUN. THE REASON IS THAT THEY ARE MORE RELIABLE IN A COMBAT SITUATION. AND SUPPOSEDLY YOU CAN ACTUALY FIRE A PUMP ACTION FASTER. HERE IS AN PART OF AN ARTICLE ON THIS SUBJECT:
Background: Various models of shotgun have been in service use since 1901. The current inventory consists of four different 12 gauge shotgun models: Remington 870, Winchester 1200, Mossberg 500, and Mossberg 590. (Weight and length of the weapon depend on the manufacturer.)

Dozerpilot · February 15, 2006, 02:39 PM

In all my time in the USAF, the only shotgun I have seen was an 870. It belonged to the Security Forces Squadron special response team, and it was set up specifcly as a breaching gun. I spoke to my brother in law, a Marine, on the phone one night while he was holding a Benelli pump. I think he said it was an M3. I'll always keep my 870, but I'd still like to have a Super 90 or a 1187P.

muddinman_04 · February 15, 2006, 03:45 PM

Mossberg 500 pump. Side saddle, Butler Creek folding stock, and some 00 buck shot.

3o3brit · February 15, 2006, 04:32 PM

Ruger4570 I agree with you.

My defense shotgun is a Ted Williams 300 (same as Win 1400)
Carried it for bird hunting and many years and MANY hundreds of rounds later trust it 100%
It has never malfunctioned, ever.

It now has an 18" barrel and while it only holds 2 rounds in the magazine, I in no way feel under gunned with 3 shots total.

When I shot clay pigeons with it I got in the habit of 'shoot one load one'

Twycross · February 15, 2006, 05:13 PM

Pump. Win 1300 12 ga.

Ruger4570 · February 15, 2006, 09:11 PM

303britt: Thanks for the agreement. I have heard ALL the discussions about pump vs auto, most have complaints about auto's not functioning, especially when dirty,, DUH!! You want to trust your life to a dirty gun..even a pump the argument is pointless and basically dumb. I have owned MANY auto's and never had one ever fail to function if kept even "reasonably" clean. I shoot many thousands of shots in competition every year and use an auto most of the time. I read a post that a pump can fire faster than an auto, well I have $100.00 bucks I will bet that I can shoot my auto a lot faster at a target and hit it.
I can't see any problem with 3 shots in a gun, unless you are completly incompetent and the worlds worst shooter. 3 is probably 2 more than you should need. I read about "running gun battles" and the need for 25 to 30 rounds of ammo.. that is movie stuff, not real life. I cannot immagine a bad guy(s) wanting to engage in this, at least not in the usual breakin situation. In fact, most of them want to be sure you are NOT at home and will flee if discovered. For example, when was the last time you heard about a homeowner firing 10 shots or more to defuse a situation. It happens in movies "where bullets make sparks" and is not an everyday occurance. Out of the millions of people that have guns, how many have ever been robbed, broken into when they were home and of those, how many fired more than one shot. Being prepared makes sense, being Rambo is simply macho fantacy based on no facts whatever.

hpg · February 15, 2006, 09:30 PM

Remington 870 with a Davis Speedfeed III tactical stock. hpg

Glockamolie · February 15, 2006, 10:22 PM

Winchester 1200 7-shot. Bought it for $125 out the door at a gun show. There was a rack of 'em; take your pick. They were from a local Sheriff's Dept. Mine was marked for the Jail Division, so it was probably carried and shot less than a patrol shotgun. It's not rough, but I also didn't have the displeasure of putting the first scratch on it, either!

BrthrB · February 18, 2006, 12:20 AM

M1 Super 90 and Beretta 1201FP...Same basic function for consistency in training.

I figure 2 are better than one!

czc3513 · February 18, 2006, 05:44 AM

Quote:

What could be scarier to a bad guy than the sound of a shotgun pump being racked in the dark?

Quote:

Sound of a shotgun being fired in the dark maybe?

lmfao!

Well.... I am guilty of not having a home defense shotgun.
But, you forgot single and double break opens.

Spahrtan · February 18, 2006, 03:47 PM

Hawk-Ultracell pump shotgun. This gun (for the majority who are not familiar with it) is basically a chinese production of an 870. I found one at a gun show for $200 and bought it. I have since replaced the barrel with an 18" barrel, added a heat shield, upgrades sights, replaced forend with a Tacstar pistol fore-grip, Tacstar WLS2000 flashlight with pressure switch mounted on forgrip, KNoxx Cop-Stock folding buttstock, and Outdoor connection quick-adjust slung (not pictured). for a project total of right around $500.

drifts1 · February 18, 2006, 09:19 PM

Pump action Moss500 in its out of the box condition. Works great so I wont mess with it!

O6nop · February 18, 2006, 09:42 PM

I got a Maverick 88 12 gauge pump. I got it NIB for about $139. I replaced the 26" barrel with a 18-1/2" cylinder bore and put a pistol grip with a top folding stock and added a 5 shell carrier to the stock. Unfortunately, I haven't even fired it, even at the range. I want to try it out, get the feel for firing it and check out what kind of patterns it shoots. The range I go to has a specific area for SD shotgun practice with a silhouete target. I've been too busy testing out my other weapons, such as my 9MM Glock, S&W 357Mag, Taurus PT22, Ruger 10/22, and Yugo SKS. My priority should be the SD shotgun but actually I just got the new bbl and didn't want to use the old one because I want to resell it.

BUCKMARK · February 18, 2006, 10:22 PM

1100 Remington with 18.5" barrel/ trijicon bead.

8 shot with speed loading gate and a extended bolt handle that can be operated with the off hand. Speed Feed stock. I tuned the gas ports to work with standard 2 3/4" loads. I use #4 shot for home defense.

I also installed the Side Saddle so I can grab it and go. Trigger group has been tuned and polished with the Remington factory comp trigger kit. I also use the newer teflon o ring and one piece piston kit.

There is nothing in the world wrong with a pump gun. But this auto has been 100% rock solid, and with practice... clearing any malfunction is super easy and fast.

Springfield XD40 Man · February 18, 2006, 10:35 PM

I've got a mossberg 500 12 gauge pump, 18" barrel. I'm a fan of the 100% reliability with pump actions.

zippyfusenet · February 18, 2006, 10:55 PM

I'm a noob with no shotgun. I'm thinking about getting one for home defense. I don't hunt. I see I can get a basic, functional 12 gauge pump gun at Walmart for less than $150, or an NIB pump riot gun for under $350, or maybe find a good used pump gun for a couple hundred. Catalog prices for semi-auto 12 gauge shotguns start around $800 and run up to twice that or more. I think there's a pump gun in my future.

870 wingmaster · February 19, 2006, 12:22 AM

I have my trusty 870 wingmaster magnum cut to 20'' cyl bore!!!!! 4 to 5 shells will work just fine!!

triggerhappy2006 · February 19, 2006, 03:41 PM

Mossy 835. I pump, it chambers, I pull the trigger, it fires. enough said

triggerhappy2006 · February 19, 2006, 03:44 PM

double post.. damn that reload button

RedPhnx · February 19, 2006, 05:56 PM

Semi-Auto here

Browning A-5 light 12 guage

Loaded with 3 00 Buckshot and 3 slugs in a butt stock holster. Backed up by my .22 revolver and Beretta 21a 22. cal pistol.

The pistols are way undersized so I put my trust in the shotgun. Can't wait until I can get my .45 and retire the other two pistols to destroying tin cans.

View Poll Results: Pump or Semi-auto home defense shotgun?
Semi-auto	80	18.10%
Pump	362	81.90%
Voters: 442. You may not vote on this poll

February 14, 2006, 01:12 PM	#28
swmike Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2005 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 670	Did a lot of Trapshooting with an 1100. No matter how clean and well maintained, the semi's seem to have more misfires than the pumps. Dirty gas cylinder or powder residue in firing pin/spring assy was main cause. Shooting for fun can tolerate these misfires. In a semi, one has to take one hand off the weapon and cycle the bolt. On a pump, not so. Rack in another round (if it ever does misfire) and get back to business. Another factor for me. My 1100 only held 5 in the mag tube. My Mossy 500-ATP8 holds 8. If it turns into a running battle I have 5 more on the stock and 25 in a bandolier. __________________ My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target. "In God we trust, all others are suspects." "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help". ____________________________________________

February 15, 2006, 03:45 PM	#33
muddinman_04 Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 98	Pump Mossberg 500 pump. Side saddle, Butler Creek folding stock, and some 00 buck shot.

February 15, 2006, 05:13 PM	#35
Twycross Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 1,187	Pump. Win 1300 12 ga. __________________ The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming. - Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)

February 15, 2006, 09:30 PM	#37
hpg Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2002 Location: in the Bluegrass State Posts: 1,610	Remington 870 with a Davis Speedfeed III tactical stock. hpg __________________ NRA member Semper Paratus

February 14, 2006, 12:40 PM	#26
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I use a Berreta 390 w/28 guage barrel. I could never see buying a seperate HD gun that had no other sporting purpose than sitting in my house waiting for the possibility of an intruder. My house was broken into a couple of months ago, the jerks were at least smart enough to be sure I wasn't home and I am sure they rang the doorbell several times too, just to be sure I wasn't there. I often wonder about the extended magazines and their actual usefulness. If for some reason a crook was DUMB enough to enter my home while I was there, I would not be standing up confronting him, I would be on the floor (where a semi is required to self load and not reveal myself),where he isn't going to expect me to be, behind as much wall or cover as possible. The last thing I am going to do is rack a round in (to scare him)so he gets the opportunity to know where I am. If he is facing me with a gun, I will simply shoot him, if his back is to me I will give him the chance to hit the floor voluntarily, if not, he will hit the floor anyways. I don't think in any case I would need more than 2 rounds to neutralize the threat, much less 6 to 8 shots. The high capacity short shotties look cool and mean, but I don't think a HD situation is going to be a recreation of the Alamo or D-day. I trust my 390 to function every trigger pull with no additional work on my part or have to expose my body to a perp. I have shot the 390, 1000's of times skeet shooting and it has never failed to function, never. I have heard ALL the stories why pump guns are better, I just don't buy it. I think it is about seeing too much TV and close ups of people shucking shells. Anyhow, that is my opinion..... let my flaming begin

February 14, 2006, 12:41 PM	#27
Dozerpilot Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Location: Eglin AFB, FL Posts: 7	18" 870 here. If I had the money it would have been a Super 90 instead.

February 14, 2006, 08:16 PM	#29
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I have owned several 1100's in my life. and as long as they were clean,,they worked. In your post you say,,, dirty this and dirty that, sorry, if the gun is halfway clean it will work. I wouldn't expect any dirty gun to function for me, that is whY I clean them after use. I have shot many 1000's of shots with auto's and never had a problem. I think the problem is with those that just don't like semi's and are convinced pumps are better. I wonder why the Army, Marines etc don't have pump rifles if auto's are so inferior and prone to not working. As far as a running battle goes, what are the chances of that. Seriously, you catch a perp in your house, how many shots will it take to end it. What makes you think if you don't get the first shot off, you will get a chance at a second or a third or more shots much less a running battle. C'mon guys, this isn't a Rambo movie. If you want a pump, God bless you, but please stop knocking auto's as being useless, it simply shows your lack of knowledge about them and their dependability. A clean auto will perform every time,, period, everything else is simply BS and some kind of Macho thinking.

February 15, 2006, 12:39 PM	#31
jhgreasemonkey Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 2,238	I HAVE A FRIEND WHO SERVES IN THE U.S. SPECIAL FORCES AND HE TOLD ME THAT THEY ALWAYS LIKE TO EQUIP ONE MAN ON THEIR FIRE TEAM WITH A PUMP 12 GUAGE SHOTGUN. THE REASON IS THAT THEY ARE MORE RELIABLE IN A COMBAT SITUATION. AND SUPPOSEDLY YOU CAN ACTUALY FIRE A PUMP ACTION FASTER. HERE IS AN PART OF AN ARTICLE ON THIS SUBJECT: Background: Various models of shotgun have been in service use since 1901. The current inventory consists of four different 12 gauge shotgun models: Remington 870, Winchester 1200, Mossberg 500, and Mossberg 590. (Weight and length of the weapon depend on the manufacturer.)

February 15, 2006, 02:39 PM	#32
Dozerpilot Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Location: Eglin AFB, FL Posts: 7	In all my time in the USAF, the only shotgun I have seen was an 870. It belonged to the Security Forces Squadron special response team, and it was set up specifcly as a breaching gun. I spoke to my brother in law, a Marine, on the phone one night while he was holding a Benelli pump. I think he said it was an M3. I'll always keep my 870, but I'd still like to have a Super 90 or a 1187P.

February 15, 2006, 04:32 PM	#34
3o3brit Member Join Date: February 2, 2005 Posts: 75	Ruger4570 I agree with you. My defense shotgun is a Ted Williams 300 (same as Win 1400) Carried it for bird hunting and many years and MANY hundreds of rounds later trust it 100% It has never malfunctioned, ever. It now has an 18" barrel and while it only holds 2 rounds in the magazine, I in no way feel under gunned with 3 shots total. When I shot clay pigeons with it I got in the habit of 'shoot one load one'

February 15, 2006, 09:11 PM	#36
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	303britt: Thanks for the agreement. I have heard ALL the discussions about pump vs auto, most have complaints about auto's not functioning, especially when dirty,, DUH!! You want to trust your life to a dirty gun..even a pump the argument is pointless and basically dumb. I have owned MANY auto's and never had one ever fail to function if kept even "reasonably" clean. I shoot many thousands of shots in competition every year and use an auto most of the time. I read a post that a pump can fire faster than an auto, well I have $100.00 bucks I will bet that I can shoot my auto a lot faster at a target and hit it. I can't see any problem with 3 shots in a gun, unless you are completly incompetent and the worlds worst shooter. 3 is probably 2 more than you should need. I read about "running gun battles" and the need for 25 to 30 rounds of ammo.. that is movie stuff, not real life. I cannot immagine a bad guy(s) wanting to engage in this, at least not in the usual breakin situation. In fact, most of them want to be sure you are NOT at home and will flee if discovered. For example, when was the last time you heard about a homeowner firing 10 shots or more to defuse a situation. It happens in movies "where bullets make sparks" and is not an everyday occurance. Out of the millions of people that have guns, how many have ever been robbed, broken into when they were home and of those, how many fired more than one shot. Being prepared makes sense, being Rambo is simply macho fantacy based on no facts whatever.

February 15, 2006, 10:22 PM	#38
Glockamolie Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 359	Winchester 1200 7-shot. Bought it for $125 out the door at a gun show. There was a rack of 'em; take your pick. They were from a local Sheriff's Dept. Mine was marked for the Jail Division, so it was probably carried and shot less than a patrol shotgun. It's not rough, but I also didn't have the displeasure of putting the first scratch on it, either! __________________ Brandon

February 18, 2006, 12:20 AM	#39
BrthrB Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 54	M1 Super 90 and Beretta 1201FP...Same basic function for consistency in training. I figure 2 are better than one!

February 18, 2006, 03:47 PM	#41
Spahrtan Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 86	Pump Hawk-Ultracell pump shotgun. This gun (for the majority who are not familiar with it) is basically a chinese production of an 870. I found one at a gun show for $200 and bought it. I have since replaced the barrel with an 18" barrel, added a heat shield, upgrades sights, replaced forend with a Tacstar pistol fore-grip, Tacstar WLS2000 flashlight with pressure switch mounted on forgrip, KNoxx Cop-Stock folding buttstock, and Outdoor connection quick-adjust slung (not pictured). for a project total of right around $500. Last edited by Spahrtan; June 2, 2006 at 04:39 PM.

February 18, 2006, 09:19 PM	#42
drifts1 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Posts: 136	Pump action Moss500 in its out of the box condition. Works great so I wont mess with it!

February 18, 2006, 09:42 PM	#43
O6nop Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 291	Home SD Shotgun I got a Maverick 88 12 gauge pump. I got it NIB for about $139. I replaced the 26" barrel with a 18-1/2" cylinder bore and put a pistol grip with a top folding stock and added a 5 shell carrier to the stock. Unfortunately, I haven't even fired it, even at the range. I want to try it out, get the feel for firing it and check out what kind of patterns it shoots. The range I go to has a specific area for SD shotgun practice with a silhouete target. I've been too busy testing out my other weapons, such as my 9MM Glock, S&W 357Mag, Taurus PT22, Ruger 10/22, and Yugo SKS. My priority should be the SD shotgun but actually I just got the new bbl and didn't want to use the old one because I want to resell it.

February 18, 2006, 10:22 PM	#44
BUCKMARK Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: south central Pa. Posts: 299	1100 Remington with 18.5" barrel/ trijicon bead. 8 shot with speed loading gate and a extended bolt handle that can be operated with the off hand. Speed Feed stock. I tuned the gas ports to work with standard 2 3/4" loads. I use #4 shot for home defense. I also installed the Side Saddle so I can grab it and go. Trigger group has been tuned and polished with the Remington factory comp trigger kit. I also use the newer teflon o ring and one piece piston kit. There is nothing in the world wrong with a pump gun. But this auto has been 100% rock solid, and with practice... clearing any malfunction is super easy and fast. __________________ NRA-GOA Let's Roll!

February 18, 2006, 10:35 PM	#45
Springfield XD40 Man Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2006 Location: Florissant Colorado Posts: 431	I've got a mossberg 500 12 gauge pump, 18" barrel. I'm a fan of the 100% reliability with pump actions.

February 18, 2006, 10:55 PM	#46
zippyfusenet Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2005 Posts: 165	I'm a noob with no shotgun. I'm thinking about getting one for home defense. I don't hunt. I see I can get a basic, functional 12 gauge pump gun at Walmart for less than $150, or an NIB pump riot gun for under $350, or maybe find a good used pump gun for a couple hundred. Catalog prices for semi-auto 12 gauge shotguns start around $800 and run up to twice that or more. I think there's a pump gun in my future. __________________ You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

February 19, 2006, 12:22 AM	#47
870 wingmaster Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Posts: 143	I have my trusty 870 wingmaster magnum cut to 20'' cyl bore!!!!! 4 to 5 shells will work just fine!!

February 19, 2006, 03:41 PM	#48
triggerhappy2006 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 452	Mossy 835. I pump, it chambers, I pull the trigger, it fires. enough said

February 19, 2006, 03:44 PM	#49
triggerhappy2006 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 452	double post.. damn that reload button

February 19, 2006, 05:56 PM	#50
RedPhnx Member Join Date: February 5, 2005 Location: Granite City, IL Posts: 86	Semi-Auto here Browning A-5 light 12 guage Loaded with 3 00 Buckshot and 3 slugs in a butt stock holster. Backed up by my .22 revolver and Beretta 21a 22. cal pistol. The pistols are way undersized so I put my trust in the shotgun. Can't wait until I can get my .45 and retire the other two pistols to destroying tin cans.