357 magnum high pressure event

Jayhawkhuntclub · April 9, 2009, 09:50 AM

I was shooting yesterday and took out some 180 gr Hornady XTP loaded that I loaded about 5 years ago. The gun was my SW 686-1 I shot 5 loaded with 12.5 gr of H110. It gave me a nice sub 2" group at 20 yards off a rest. But when I went to eject they were pretty tight. The gun was pretty dirty so I assumed that's what caused it. I didn't see any real flat primers either. Well then I go to shoot the 13.0 gr H110 load (with a bit of hesitation). I shot 1 round and opened it up to check. It too was tougher than usual to eject. When I got it out, I found a 1/2" crack in the side of the (new) RP case. I took the gun home and cleaned the cylinder and found no damage. The max load in the Hornady manual is 13.1 gr of H110 and Hodgdon says it's 13.5 gr of H110. Obviously, I'm going to disassemble the rest of the 13.0 loads. But what about the 12.5 gr loads? Should I back off these too? I really think these cases had nothing to do with the gun being dirty. Thoughts?

Sevens · April 9, 2009, 10:34 AM

Given that the 12.5 gr loads were hard to eject, I would back off on them. But that's what I would do in the situation.

If you loaded some 12.2 grain loads...
and they gave you similar groups, or even smaller...
and they ejected nicely...
Would you miss the few FPS from a somewhat lighter load?

What's the purpose of the ammo? If it's general target, plinking, fun load, I'd back it off. If it has to be hunting ammo that needs a specific velocity to perform as intended (and you'd need a chrono to make sure you are getting what you want), then maybe not.

Without a chrono, you don't know the FPS difference in your revolver between 12.2, 12.5 and 13.0. If it's 40 FPS, it's kind of pointless to add the wear & tear on your revolver and shooting hand, isn't it?

Reading primers is not a very good way to get a REAL idea of what is happening. It's a reference point, but there are dozens of examples where a hotter, higher pressure load will show less flattening of a primer than a lighter, less pressure load in a different gun or caliber.

Also ask yourself what other guns you have in your arsenal. Have you got a .44 Mag? If yes, then does it make good sense to hot load your .357? (it may, I'm just making a suggestion)

Running the ragged edge is fine for some. It's not my style, and it's definitely not why I reload.

Teuthis · April 9, 2009, 12:50 PM

The little voice that you heard, and ignored, was right. After experiencing potentially high pressures with the 12.5 load, you should have stopped. I think you were lucky.

I agree totally with sevens about not "running the ragged edge. Why risk life and limb for yourself and others around you, as well as your revolver, with hopped up loads? I have handloaded for well over 30 years, enjoying it thoroughly, and I have never loaded a maximum load in any of the twenty calibers I have loaded. There is no need.

Work all of your loads up from at or near the minimum recipes, until you have something accurate and still safely below the maximum loads. It is better for your firearm and safer for you.

tomh1426 · April 9, 2009, 01:03 PM

I just tried this exact load not long ago and it worked great.

I was using brand new Remington brass and 180gr XTPs, I also tried some 180gr Nosler silhouette's over the same charge (13gr H-110)
Why would this load work in one gun and not another??
My Hornady book shows 11.3-13.1 and Nosler shows 12.5-13.5
BTW Im shooting a Taurus 608

muzzelblast · April 9, 2009, 01:04 PM

Primers are an especially unreliable indicator when trying to guage pressure signs in revolver loads. From what I've read, there have been incidents of ruptured cases being retreived from burst revolver cylinders that had 'normal' looking primers - yet the load had blown up a gun.

Jayhawkhuntclub · April 9, 2009, 02:16 PM

I was indeed lucky. But I am not a hotrodder when it comes to my loads. That's why neither of these was a maximum load. I rarely load near max. These loads were approaching max because they are a hunting load. And honestly they are barely approaching max (both Hodgdon and Nosler list 13.5 gr as max. Frankly, I don't think max loads are that beneficial generally due to deminishing returns. I suppose starting over at around 12 to 12.2 would be the best way to go about things.

James R. Burke · April 9, 2009, 03:01 PM

Sevens has it correct. Even in hunting your better with the accuracy if you come down a little on the f.p.s. Whatever your hunting if that is what you are doing the game wont no the difference, if you are taking well placed shots like you should. If it is paper, it just does not matter. The main thing is keep it safe!

AlaskaMike · April 10, 2009, 11:47 AM

It could be that your revolver has slightly generously sized chambers, or slightly smaller chamber mouths, or a slightly tight bore, or some combination that results in higher pressure from your gun with a given load. I'd proceed as you mention, trying 12.0 and 12.2 grains, and see where that takes you.

Mike

Dingoboyx · April 10, 2009, 11:54 AM

generous chambers in that one (or thin brass).... definately

I would say, shoot the 12.5's and disassemble the 13's and try about 12 - 12.2 see how your groups go then

April 9, 2009, 09:50 AM	#1
Jayhawkhuntclub Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Posts: 581	357 magnum high pressure event I was shooting yesterday and took out some 180 gr Hornady XTP loaded that I loaded about 5 years ago. The gun was my SW 686-1 I shot 5 loaded with 12.5 gr of H110. It gave me a nice sub 2" group at 20 yards off a rest. But when I went to eject they were pretty tight. The gun was pretty dirty so I assumed that's what caused it. I didn't see any real flat primers either. Well then I go to shoot the 13.0 gr H110 load (with a bit of hesitation). I shot 1 round and opened it up to check. It too was tougher than usual to eject. When I got it out, I found a 1/2" crack in the side of the (new) RP case. I took the gun home and cleaned the cylinder and found no damage. The max load in the Hornady manual is 13.1 gr of H110 and Hodgdon says it's 13.5 gr of H110. Obviously, I'm going to disassemble the rest of the 13.0 loads. But what about the 12.5 gr loads? Should I back off these too? I really think these cases had nothing to do with the gun being dirty. Thoughts?

April 9, 2009, 10:34 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Given that the 12.5 gr loads were hard to eject, I would back off on them. But that's what I would do in the situation. If you loaded some 12.2 grain loads... and they gave you similar groups, or even smaller... and they ejected nicely... Would you miss the few FPS from a somewhat lighter load? What's the purpose of the ammo? If it's general target, plinking, fun load, I'd back it off. If it has to be hunting ammo that needs a specific velocity to perform as intended (and you'd need a chrono to make sure you are getting what you want), then maybe not. Without a chrono, you don't know the FPS difference in your revolver between 12.2, 12.5 and 13.0. If it's 40 FPS, it's kind of pointless to add the wear & tear on your revolver and shooting hand, isn't it? Reading primers is not a very good way to get a REAL idea of what is happening. It's a reference point, but there are dozens of examples where a hotter, higher pressure load will show less flattening of a primer than a lighter, less pressure load in a different gun or caliber. Also ask yourself what other guns you have in your arsenal. Have you got a .44 Mag? If yes, then does it make good sense to hot load your .357? (it may, I'm just making a suggestion) Running the ragged edge is fine for some. It's not my style, and it's definitely not why I reload. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 9, 2009, 12:50 PM	#3
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	The little voice that you heard, and ignored, was right. After experiencing potentially high pressures with the 12.5 load, you should have stopped. I think you were lucky. I agree totally with sevens about not "running the ragged edge. Why risk life and limb for yourself and others around you, as well as your revolver, with hopped up loads? I have handloaded for well over 30 years, enjoying it thoroughly, and I have never loaded a maximum load in any of the twenty calibers I have loaded. There is no need. Work all of your loads up from at or near the minimum recipes, until you have something accurate and still safely below the maximum loads. It is better for your firearm and safer for you. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant

April 9, 2009, 01:03 PM	#4
tomh1426 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2005 Location: Youngtown Arizona Posts: 1,135	I just tried this exact load not long ago and it worked great. I was using brand new Remington brass and 180gr XTPs, I also tried some 180gr Nosler silhouette's over the same charge (13gr H-110) Why would this load work in one gun and not another?? My Hornady book shows 11.3-13.1 and Nosler shows 12.5-13.5 BTW Im shooting a Taurus 608 Last edited by tomh1426; April 9, 2009 at 01:12 PM.

April 10, 2009, 11:54 AM	#9
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	+1 AlaskaMike generous chambers in that one (or thin brass).... definately I would say, shoot the 12.5's and disassemble the 13's and try about 12 - 12.2 see how your groups go then __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 9, 2009, 01:04 PM	#5
muzzelblast Member Join Date: August 2, 2008 Location: GA Posts: 16	Primers are an especially unreliable indicator when trying to guage pressure signs in revolver loads. From what I've read, there have been incidents of ruptured cases being retreived from burst revolver cylinders that had 'normal' looking primers - yet the load had blown up a gun.

April 9, 2009, 02:16 PM	#6
Jayhawkhuntclub Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Posts: 581	I was indeed lucky. But I am not a hotrodder when it comes to my loads. That's why neither of these was a maximum load. I rarely load near max. These loads were approaching max because they are a hunting load. And honestly they are barely approaching max (both Hodgdon and Nosler list 13.5 gr as max. Frankly, I don't think max loads are that beneficial generally due to deminishing returns. I suppose starting over at around 12 to 12.2 would be the best way to go about things.

April 9, 2009, 03:01 PM	#7
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	Sevens has it correct. Even in hunting your better with the accuracy if you come down a little on the f.p.s. Whatever your hunting if that is what you are doing the game wont no the difference, if you are taking well placed shots like you should. If it is paper, it just does not matter. The main thing is keep it safe!

April 10, 2009, 11:47 AM	#8
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 943	It could be that your revolver has slightly generously sized chambers, or slightly smaller chamber mouths, or a slightly tight bore, or some combination that results in higher pressure from your gun with a given load. I'd proceed as you mention, trying 12.0 and 12.2 grains, and see where that takes you. Mike