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Old February 1, 2024, 08:08 PM   #1
musicmatty
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Finally some high quality slugs for the 410 with results

I have owned my Henry Steel side gate 410 nearly 2 years and finally high quality slugs are now available it seems. I was able to pick up a couple hundred Brenneke close encounter slugs and achieved some great results in my opinion.

I was able to dial in a very tight group at 40 yards open sights into the bull’s-eye. I shot 5 slugs and 4 of the 5 right inside the bull’s-eye with just one outside to the upper left. I believe these are excellent results considering it’s just a 20 inch smoothbore barrel.

This has now become my go to firearm and what I consider a perfect Woodsmans gun. It’s very versatile with a 6 round capacity that’s great for survival/hunting and defense. It’s certainly accurate and powerful enough with the slugs to take a deer or blackbear within 50yds..( if I lived in grizzly country, a 12 gauge would be my companion of choice ) This Henry 410 Favors number 6 shot for poppin’ clays. The Hornady triple defense has no problem knocking over medium size logs 25 yards out.

Hopefully this information will be useful for anyone else who has a 410 looking for quality slugs.






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Old February 2, 2024, 09:36 PM   #2
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Don't try to make 410 something it ain't........I own and reload for 410's.
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Old February 3, 2024, 09:03 AM   #3
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Don't try to make 410 something it ain't........I own and reload for 410's.


Night and day difference between using a typical ‘foster slug in a 410 gauge versus a Brennecke slug. Anyone who is a good shot carrying a 410 packed with Brenneke slugs should be able to drop anything inside of 50 yards.

https://youtu.be/E0-uzAkf0aA?si=fViiEcllQw1i1j32

https://youtu.be/LQcot7HrWuU?si=EfmGMjKKufTEMxzn

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Old February 6, 2024, 02:03 PM   #4
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slugs

The Brenneke slugs are a cut above the average domestic Foster, no doubt, but a .410 is still a .410. A .410 slug of any persuasion is a 110 gr or so , appx. .40 cal. in diameter. Brenneke says their slug is running 1500 fps, with 575 lbs of energy at the muzzle. If zeroed at 50 yds, it's down 7 inches at 100. What one is looking at is essentially a hot, light bullet .40 S&W round. If one's target can be addressed with .40 S&W ballistics, the .410 Brenneke slug should be sufficient. Most of Brenneke's slugs are of a bit harder alloy than the domestic Fosters, so penetration should be enhanced a bit. If one is satisfied with .40 S&W numbers from a carbine for their wanderings, have at it. Pistol caliber carbines are popular, and I sallied forth with a .357 mag carbine for years as a woods pal. I will submit though, that 100 rds of pistol ammo is a good bit cheaper than 100 rds of boutique .410 slugs. An afternoon of shooting stumps and rocks would get pretty expensive. I am impressed with the 50 yd groups Matty obtained, that surprised me.

Of course the .410 will deliver a load of shot as well, albeit a small one. For quite a few years, I hunted cottontails a head of beagles with a .410 and conventional lead shot. For that I decided that the .410 was about a 25-30 yd bunny gun at max when loaded right and choked full, which was what most field guns were. And what worked the best for me (and my dad) load wise was the 3" shell and #7-1/2 shot. The 2-1/2" shell, so often found in my area on the box store shelves, delivered such thin patterns with its diminutive payload, especially with #6 or worse #4 shot (which were also the most common shot sizes we'd see) that it was a far worse hunting load than the 3"-#7-1/2 shell. My advice to anybody wanting to hunt small game with a .410 is to use shot size no larger than #7-1/2 and stick with the larger shell.An exception MAY be the 2-1/2" shell and #8shot. I bought a quantity of those one year when I could not find the the longer number and they did surprisingly well on bunnies ahead of beagles, most shots slow and close and the rascally rabbit never new the difference.

These days we have tungsten shot, and folks are killing gobblers and other critters with the stuff with patterns at distances far beyond what Dad and I knew. TSS and special chokes turns the .410 into a lot more gun, and allows the taking of critters at "normal" shotgun ranges of 35-40 yds or more if you wanna risk it I hear. But TSS is terribly expensive, and although the price of a premium shell may be worth it for a gobbler, the average fella is not going to go through 40-50 rds of TSS rounds for a month of rabbit season.

I still keep a .410 shotgun at the house, it proves useful for dispatching pests and for that any load will do. It's an old Winchester model 37, discovered leaning against a tree in a front yard with a hand painted "4 SALE" sign propped along side. Fifty bucks and it was mine. A .410 lever carbine would not be my choice for much of anything, neither fish nor fowl, not really a practical shotgun, not really a medium game carbine either (like a .357 or 30-30).

Thing is though, the Model 37 is mine and Matty has his Henry and we both seem happy. I wish him the best with his levergun.
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Old February 6, 2024, 04:36 PM   #5
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Interesting result.
How well did the Hornady stuff pattern?

Quote:
The Brenneke slugs are a cut above the average domestic Foster, no doubt, but a .410 is still a .410. A .410 slug of any persuasion is a 110 gr or so , appx. .40 cal. in diameter.
Yea, and only if you've got the full 1/4 oz slug. 1/5 oz is more common from what I've seen.
85-90 gr projectile at 1,300-1,500 fps?
I can do that with .32 H&R and .327 Federal, with more precision. Or up the ante in other ways.

I love .410 bore. It is a fun, stupid little cartridge. And, having been introduced as a smokeless shot cartridge, you never have to worry about sticking a modern load in an old BP gun, because there aren't any. (Excepting some of the old ".44 Shot" chambers that later got reamed to .410, but they're usually quite easy to spot and were not factory conversions.)
When I don't have a .410, I want a .410. When I do have a .410, I have fun with it until I remember why I didn't have a .410.

It is always the same. Limited usefulness, limited range, and I can never find a gun that is *just right*. The closest I've gotten so far is one of the aforementioned .44 Shot guns - an H&R small frame, for which I have to custom load. But, it isn't a .410. Still looking...

Any way you slice it, I'll let a person use a .410 however they please. But, to me, slugs in a .410 is about like asking 300 people what to use for personal defense, looking at the 200+ responses of "9mm [insert HP variety]" and [various modern handguns], and then going out and buying a Bryco/Jennings .25 Auto and running FMJs.
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Old February 6, 2024, 07:04 PM   #6
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How well did the Hornady stuff pattern?

The Hornady with its three projectiles grouped very well at 10 yards and 15 yards in my opinion. Groups like this within 15 yards is what I would expect from a home defense round.



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Old February 7, 2024, 01:38 AM   #7
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Yea, and only if you've got the full 1/4 oz slug. 1/5 oz is more common from what I've seen.
85-90 gr projectile at 1,300-1,500 fps?
I have a few (5rnd) boxes of Winchester 3" 1/4"oz slugs. Velocity given on the box is 1800fps.

Ran across a site that did chrono testing using a Mossberg with a 24" barrel, and they got significantly higher speed than advertised, 1955fps.

Of course, it would be significantly less from a shorter barrel.
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Old February 7, 2024, 02:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
The Hornady with its three projectiles grouped very well at 10 yards and 15 yards in my opinion. Groups like this within 15 yards is what I would expect from a home defense round.
Seems good enough if that is what you want to use.

Quote:
I have a few (5rnd) boxes of Winchester 3" 1/4"oz slugs. Velocity given on the box is 1800fps.

Ran across a site that did chrono testing using a Mossberg with a 24" barrel, and they got significantly higher speed than advertised, 1955fps.
Interesting.
A friend of mine, our deceased member DPris, gave me about two cases worth of .410 loads - mostly buck, slug, and self-defense stuff - before he passed. There are a few boxes of the Winchester 3" slugs in there, as well as way too much Winchester PDX-1 "Defender". He used it for articles that he wrote while testing firearms for various gun rags. I use it mostly for cowpies and pumpkins. (I think he would be proud.)
I have never attempted to chronograph any of it.


(I do currently own two .410 shotguns. They just aren't special enough to get much love.)
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Old February 7, 2024, 06:03 AM   #9
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Seems good enough if that is what you want to use.

The Brenneke slugs are averaging over 1700 ft./s out of the Henry rifle as seen in the video clip below. This is approximately 700 ft./s faster out of a rifle than a 45 long colt shot out of a rifle. The velocity, the penetration power, accuracy and being a 6 shot capacity, yes this firearm is good enough inside of 50 yards To be an excellent ‘ woodsman carrying companion in the eastern woods. Also, it’s lever action fun at its best

https://youtu.be/APPHTAw_4IY?si=dXKDkB5WVDIILKBM




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Old February 7, 2024, 04:51 PM   #10
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This is approximately 700 ft./s faster out of a rifle than a 45 long colt shot out of a rifle.
But with a smaller bullet that is also about half the weight.

1700fps with a 110gr bullet is about what one would expect from a .357Mag out of a 18" barrel. In fact, one could do a lot better than that with a .357Mag carbine according to this website:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

They show two different .357Mag loads that went over 1700fps with a 158gr bullet out of an 18" bbl.

More than that, though, they show three 125gr/130gr loadings ( heavier than a .410 slug) that went over 2000fps out of an 18" bbl.

Basically what it comes down to is that a .357Mag carbine will likely out-perform a .410 slug gun. It would do it with cheaper ammo and likely around double the capacity in a comparable firearm. Looks like maybe the .410 lever gun might be a bit cheaper due to the smooth bore, so that's one advantage for it. Accuracy is probably going to favor the .357Mag but that might not be a big issue inside 50yds when shooting an iron-sighted carbine.

I think there are people out there who would agree with you that a .357Mag carbine is sufficient for the eastern woods, and the .410 is not that far behind it.
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Old February 7, 2024, 09:03 PM   #11
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“Basically what it comes down to is that a .357Mag carbine will likely out-perform a .410 slug gun. It would do it with cheaper ammo and likely around double the capacity in a comparable firearm. Looks like maybe the .410 lever gun might be a bit cheaper due to the smooth bore, so that's one advantage for it. Accuracy is probably going to favor the .357Mag but that might not be a big issue inside 50yds when shooting an iron-sighted carbine.”

Fully agree. A 410 (41 caliber) Brennecke slug is very comparable to a 357.. not exact but not that far apart. The reason I chose the 410 lever action over a handgun caliber lever action was simply this… It’s more versatile because I can shoot birdshot for popin’ clays or home defense loads or a slug very accurate out to 50 yards. If you view my photographs in my earlier post, you will see my very tight slug group at 40 yards with open sights. That group is as good as any I have ever shot with rifle calibers from 3030 to handgun cartridges out of a rifle. With that type of accuracy and a 6 shot capacity of a 41 caliber slug, that easily edged out any other handgun caliber cartridge because of its versatility that they don’t offer.

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Old February 12, 2024, 01:23 PM   #12
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While a .410 certainly isn't a 12 or 20 gauge, I wouldn't have a problem shooting a deer with a good slug from one so long as you're mindful about keeping the range moderate. I will say that while I've never used them in .410, I've yet to find a shotgun that wouldn't shoot Brenneke slugs accurately. I also think I'd have more confidence in a Brenneke slug from a .410 than in the more traditional Foster-type slugs loaded by most other makers due to the difference in both accuracy and bullet construction of the Brenneke.
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Old February 17, 2024, 03:29 AM   #13
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The Brenneke slugs are averaging over 1700 ft./s out of the Henry rifle as seen in the video clip below.
To be clear, is that Henry a rifle or a shotgun??

Quote:
1700fps with a 110gr bullet is about what one would expect from a .357Mag out of a 18" barrel.
a 110gr .357 from an 18" barrel doing 1700fps is a moderate load. I've run 158s in the 1700-1800fps range and 125s at 2200fps from an 18" Marlin carbine. At those speeds, the 158s still hold together reasonably well, but the 125s are being radically overdriven, and literally "blow up". Very impressive on water jugs, very disappointing in big game.

I would expect fairly good accuracy from .410 Brenneke slugs fired through a .410 bore shotgun barrel. I wouldn't expect them to do quite as well fired from the .45 caliber bore of the .45 Colt/.410 combo guns.
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Old February 19, 2024, 06:50 PM   #14
musicmatty
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I did a recent comparison of a typical foster rifled slug (veteran ammo ) compared to a Brenneke slug and there honestly was no comparison with accuracy. At 40 yards bench rested, the foster had great difficulty getting on a 12 inch target. The Brenneke on the other hand, shot a very tight group in the Bull.

I remove the slugs from both casings to do a comparison and this is what I observed… The ‘veteran brand slug had 8 rifled grooves. The Brenneke had 12 rifled grooves that were even more defined with their shaping and a twist at an angle of a spiral with a more defined center point On top.

The ‘veteran brand rifled slug is fine for plinking inside of 15 yards but it’s not a serious contender for self-defense or hunting out to distances of 40 or 50 yards by any stretch.

The Brenneke slugs do cost considerably more than your average foster slugs. However, if you want a smoothbore shotgun that can actually fire a projectile with the accuracy of a rifle, the Brenneke in my experience can easily deliver that type of accuracy out to 50 yards. Thankfully the technology to deliver a very accurate and deep penetrating shotgun slug is available if you’re willing to spend some money. This is why I consider the Henry 410 lever action with a 7 shot capacity to be a great Woodsman’s companion with versatility.




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