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Old May 17, 2019, 10:03 PM   #76
Cheapshooter
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It's still an average of three pounds three ounces.
Wow, Common Core math. The average of 6.0 and 6.5= 3lb 3oz
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Old May 18, 2019, 08:28 AM   #77
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Wow, Common Core math. The average of 6.0 and 6.5= 3lb 3oz
Not really, rather the reality of the LCP I happen to own. Once again, here is the table I provided before.


All of the measurements were ten iterations using a Lyman Digital Gauge and rounded to the nearest whole ounce. The math itself was done by the gauge.
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Old May 18, 2019, 08:45 AM   #78
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If your Sig P230 only measures 4 pound in DA, I would agree that maybe there is something wrong with your scale. Mine is closer to the 9 pound range.
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Old May 18, 2019, 10:16 AM   #79
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If your Sig P230 only measures 4 pound in DA, I would agree that maybe there is something wrong with your scale. Mine is closer to the 9 pound range.
Yet it seems to work for other handguns. All of the measurements were taken in the same way over about two days. Each case was ten iterations. Then the tool itself did the averaging.
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Old May 18, 2019, 10:39 AM   #80
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Have you tried the trigger pull on other LCPs with your little toy? There is obviously something amiss with either your LCP, or electronic gadget.
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Old May 18, 2019, 01:08 PM   #81
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No, I only own one LCP and that is what my reports are based on. But as I have pointed out before, even if the trigger pull on the LCP were a pound or two higher it still has all the other things that would keep it at the very bottom of the 380s I own.
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Old May 18, 2019, 01:16 PM   #82
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I've shot most of and even owned a few of the guns on that list and their D/A triggers were nowhere near as light as the ones presented here.
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Old May 18, 2019, 01:22 PM   #83
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Jar, there is an easy way to check if your trigger scale is accurate. A one gallon jug of water weight approximately 8.5 pounds. Hook up a coat hanger to the jug and use your trigger scale to pick it up. If it reads 8.5 pounds or close, then your scale is correct.

Funny though how all the trigger pulls you list are light across the board, not just the LCP. 4 pounds for any double action hammer fired pull is incredibly light!
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Old May 18, 2019, 02:19 PM   #84
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It's worth checking. But as I have said repeatedly the main issue is not trigger weight and all the other items mentioned would remain.

Even if the gauge is off the same gauge was used for all the samples. The ratios and relative trigger pulls should remain the same with the LCP being the lightest of the samples regardless of the absolute reading.

AbE: Checked the scale against known weights of my S&W 469 and 5906.

The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces. Those are very close to the published weights for the two models. Also checked against the Star UltraStar so pretty sure the gauge is not too far off.
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Old May 18, 2019, 02:30 PM   #85
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It's worth checking. But as I have said repeatedly the main issue is not trigger weight and all the other items mentioned would remain.

Even if the gauge is off the same gauge was used for all the samples. The ratios and relative trigger pulls should remain the same with the LCP being the lightest of the samples regardless of the absolute reading.
yes, but while the difference between a 4 pound pull and a 3 pound pull is the same percentage wise as a 12 pound pull and a 9 pound pull, the difference in pounds is clearly not the same.
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Old May 18, 2019, 02:51 PM   #86
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yes, but while the difference between a 4 pound pull and a 3 pound pull is the same percentage wise as a 12 pound pull and a 9 pound pull, the difference in pounds is clearly not the same.
Correct, but the order would remain the same.

Also checked the gauge and it seems pretty much dead on. See above.
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Old May 18, 2019, 03:26 PM   #87
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Check with a gallon of distilled water and it shows 8 pounds 8 ounces and that includes packaging.
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Old May 18, 2019, 07:44 PM   #88
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The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces.
The nominal SA trigger weight on a 5906 is around 5-6 pounds -and often heavier- as reflected in multiple reviews (1, 2, 3, 4) spanning more than a decade.

The trigger weights you give for standard S&W models are even less than the trigger weight of the special 3566 competition model tuned by the S&W Performance Center.
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Old May 18, 2019, 08:01 PM   #89
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That chart is way out of whack. Time to get a new measuring device.
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Old May 18, 2019, 08:47 PM   #90
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The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces. Those are very close to the published weights for the two models.


From YOUR own chart!
Smith & Wesson 5906 only D/A measured 6 pounds 2 ounces
Smith & Wesson 469 only D/A measured 7 pounds 13 ounces.

1 gallon water 8 pounds 8 ounces

Beginning to look like some serious "operator error, or a very faulty tool!

But despite all the obvious trigger pull weight errors, slide hold open, and second strike aren't even worth mentioning.
Slide hold open, in a self defense pocket gun for civilian use. For what. You're not going to be getting into an extended gun battle. If you do with any pocket pistol chances are you will be gone before you even need a reload. Pure Mall Ninja stuff.

Second strike, again pure Mall Ninja. Unless you handload with the same diligence as you are using that trigger pull guage, when's the last time you had a round fail to fire on the first try?
Let's see, from my experience excluding rimfire.
My handloads....never
Various brands of range ammo......never
Quality self defense ammo......never
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Old May 18, 2019, 10:39 PM   #91
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Second strike capability:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LUL-0k15M8
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Old May 18, 2019, 11:23 PM   #92
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Second strike capability:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LUL-0k15M8
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That on needed a slide lock on on last round!
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Old May 19, 2019, 11:00 AM   #93
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Regarding whether or not the slide holdback works, and how unimportant that hold back is, I can't believe that people are saying that it's unimportant.

There is nothing more important than planning for trouble. A .380 is a gun created for and reserved for shooting at bad guys. That requires an absolute minimum of distraction. Having to rack a slide as part of putting in a new magazine is a distraction. It also creates delays. It might be forgotten even.

Almost every combat training course includes working with only one hand. It's important to learn how to work a gun with only a single hand. How will you work the slide on the LCP if there aren't any surfaces handy that you can hook that slide on? How many people could actually do that?

You can't rack a slide with your teeth. If I am caught with my slide locked shut and it's one of the days when my fingers just don't work properly, I am going to die./

Just offhand, doesn't pretty much every semiautomatic weapon use a hold open device? If it's so important that nearly every semiautomatic pistol sold has one, is it really logical to say that it is unimportant to have one in a pistol intended for nothing at all but combat use?
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Old May 19, 2019, 11:37 AM   #94
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is it really logical to say that it is unimportant to have one in a pistol intended for nothing at all but combat use?
When considering the LCP, and other pocket pistols the answer is yes.
Their intended "combat" use is as a up close, few feet away belly gun to ward off an attack.
To say an LCP is a "combat" weapon is like saying a Prius is a NASCAR racer. If the type of "combat" these small weapons are intended for isn't over with two or three rounds, let alone a full mag, you're done. And not reloading anything anyway.
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Old May 19, 2019, 11:53 AM   #95
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With the LCP (or any other semi-auto) the user can train to count the rounds fired, and change mags while there's still a live round in the chamber. This is faster than relying on slide to lock open as an indicator because you don't have to release the slide since the last round is in battery when the fresh mag is installed.
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Old May 19, 2019, 12:39 PM   #96
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briandg, issues with having to rack the slide is why people shouldn't carry on an open chamber. As I discussed earlier, the little .380 guns are valuable because they are tiny. They are about as small as you can go within what some of us would consider reasonable for self-defense. So some of us will carry them when we can't carry something larger. In those cases, will we also have room for a spare mag? How many of us will bother carrying the spare mag?

Yeah, some people carry them as their primary EDC because they are convenient. How many of those people will be carrying a spare mag?

Locking back matters if you are carrying a spare magazine and you end up having to change magazines in a defensive encounter. On a hot day, I've usually got six rounds and a prayer.
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Old May 19, 2019, 03:16 PM   #97
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Cosmo,

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That's not necessarily true. The first shot should be okay. After that, things could get jammed up.
Agreed, but I would never rely upon a one shot stop unless I absolutely had no other choice.

Quote:
Hopefully, you won't have to shoot from inside a pocket. I know, defensive encounters can be messy and unpredictable.
Agreed, but note my comments below.

Quote:
At least in my case, "pocket carry" usually means a pants pocket. It also tends to mean a pocket holster. It would be a real feat to get a shot off through the pocket that way... =/
Agreed but it usually means IWB for me.

Quote:
What pocket do you normally use for carry? Do you use a pocket holster?
IWB with holster but if I'm noticing a sketchy situation I will carry in my hand while placed in a jacket pocket or in my hand underneath my outermost garment.
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Old May 19, 2019, 07:52 PM   #98
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When I carry, it is usually a 380 pocket pistol(rm380). I don't carry it in my pocket because I have other things in my pockets(I don't carry a purse, fanny pack, satchel, back pack, etc...). My pistol does lock back on empty, and I'm glad it does. At the range, I do count rounds, but in a stressful situation(firing my carry piece for defense) I don't think I'll be able to monitor my rounds fired, or at least, I'm not counting on it(pun by accident). I do not carry an extra mag. Last round hold open at least alerts me of empty.

I'm not saying these choices are correct for anyone but myself, but this is how I do it.
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Old May 19, 2019, 08:50 PM   #99
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Last round hold open at least alerts me of empty.
It also alerts your opponent that you're out of ammo (if he can see it).

It's all marketing...the LCP won't announce when it's empty!
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Old May 19, 2019, 09:06 PM   #100
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Well, if after 7 rounds my opponent notices I'm empty, I guess he's earned his chance. Shame on me for not doing my part. I don't have all the answers. I'm not one of the guys that has the solution to every possible problem. It is unrealistic.
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