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Old June 2, 2009, 03:52 AM   #1
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The truth about subsonic 22 lr ammo?

Hi all,
I have an AAC Pilot that I use on my Walther P22 and my sbr GSG-5.
I shoot exclusively Remington subsonic (the green box) through the pilot. Someone told me since the barrel on the Walther and the GSG (9 inches roughly) are so short that regular 22 lr rounds will not reach full velocity in them. Is this true? I do not want to damage my can so I have not tried it. Will it work and just not be as quiet as the subsonic?
Thanx, Cole
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Old June 2, 2009, 04:11 AM   #2
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I take it you are talking about a supressor on your P22? If so, subsonics are perfect for the gun, IMO, it is only ammo above standard velocity (high/hyper velocity) ammo that the supressor might have problems with....

IMO, any sub ammo is 'just what the doctor ordered'

Suppressors wont last forever, no matter what you use, they have a limited effective lifespan.
If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS
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Old June 2, 2009, 06:51 AM   #3
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I have chronographed several brands and types of .22 long rifle and Federal Lightnings were hitting 1200 fps out of a Smith and Wesson model 41 pistol. CCI standard velocity ammo is just as slow as Remington Sub Sonic or even slower and I get almost no duds.
You will be amazed at how close a pistol's velocity is to a rifle with .22 ammo. The powder is consumed and most of the velocity has already been gained in a short pistol barrel. A long rifle barrel gives only about 80-100 fps additional velocity.
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Old June 2, 2009, 07:40 AM   #4
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I've never heard of any warnings from the suppressor manufacturers against the use of standard or subsonic ammo in a short barrel.

The only warning I know of is against the use of the Aguila 60 grain subsonic round. The 60 grain bullet is considerably longer than a regular 36-40 gr round. This round requires a faster twist rifling to stabilize the bullet. You should check with your manufacturer to verify this. I'm sure they would tell you to shoot any standard or high velocity 22 round, but would warn against using the 60 grain round or the powder-less rounds.
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Old June 2, 2009, 11:23 AM   #5
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I use suppressed .22's, a Ruger 22/45 AAC Phoenix Mk2, and I use a AWC optima on my 10/22 with the 16" Tactical Solutions threaded barrel.

My dad has a 22/45 Gemtech oasis.

the Phoenix suppressor uses a preforated barrel, so that no matter what you feed it, it will come out subsonic. Dad's Oasis will produce a sonic crack with high velocity .22LR, as will the optima out on the end of the 10/22 as these do nothing to the velocity of the bullet, they simply suppress the noise produced by the propellant gasses.

You will not suffer any damage using High Velocity out of your P22 and SBR,
you will simply hear the bullet break the sound barrier as it comes out into open air.

I normally use CCI standard velocity in my 10/22 with AWC optima muzzle can
and don't get sonic crack, it also works in my dad's Oasis quite well.
(I use it in my Phoenix as well) there is only approx 20fps difference between CCI's subsonic 40gr @ 1050fps and CCI standard velocity 40gr @ 1070 as stated on the front of the boxes.

One nice byproduct of the Standard velocity is the shot to shot consistancy
in velocity when tested over a chrony, and consequently is a accurate and consistant round (my 10/22 can keep 10 of them in a group the size of a quarter at 50yds fired from a harris bi-pod and rear beanbag)
High velocity .22 tends to vary in velocity, shot to shot a wee bit more, and that is a variable that effects accuracy.

Modern suppressors do not have things in them that wear out under normal circumstances...they are a tube with metal baffles, whether the baffles are made of aluminum, as typical with some .22 suppressor to stainless steel to exotic titanium alloys on centerfire weapon models.(there are some .22 suppressors that do use a polymer baffle, but most are aluminum)

They do have to be cleaned, and the current vogue for sealed units that cannot be disassembled by the owner, means soaking in Kroil/WD40/ect
(ask the manufacturer what they recommend) then blowing out with a air hose. This will make it last a long time under normal use, and if it ever gets
too clogged up despite cleaning, you can send it back for factory service with minimal fuss.

The Optima I have is a design that can be taken apart, and its stainless baffles can be soaked/scrubbed/ or even glass bead blasted at a machine shop to get any buildup off of them.

Unless you get a baffle strike....a bullet hitting the insides of the suppressor
due in most cases to the suppressor being misaligned with the bore, these things will last forever.

old designs used rubber shoot through "wipes" that was only good for about 25 shots before replacement, screen wire rolls, steel wool etc that had to be replaced quite regularly...all headaches we don't have to contend with unless shooting an antique.

Have fun!
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

Last edited by p99guy; June 2, 2009 at 01:49 PM.
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Old June 2, 2009, 02:42 PM   #6
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I have found the Winchester Dynapoint bulk ammo to be subsonic out of my 9.25" rifle. The Dynapoint is much cheaper at $22/500 than the subsonic marketed stuff.

Not sure why you would damage your .22 suppressor shooting supersonic ammo out of it. Your .22 suppressor should last just about forever with some routine cleaning.
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Old June 22, 2009, 05:04 PM   #7
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Don't use junk ammo in supressors, dirty. Dynapoint is junk.

Also, the GEMTECH Ruger 22/45 oasis won't feed CCI's Segmented HP Subsonic - they are too long. The CCI's Segmented HP HV will feed because the casing is slick (vs. the lead bullet causing more friction/digging in while sliding up the ramp), but it's not subsonic.

Regular velocity will likely be subsonic in a handgun (like a Walther P22 or Ruger 22). If that's all you shoot, get good quality 22 regular velocity and just test it out. the bullet will need to travel more than a few feet (so, dont just test it by shooting the ground near your feet, it needs to travel a bit to hear the sonic boom if any).
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Old June 23, 2009, 10:12 AM   #8
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What's wrong with dynapoint? It's copper plated, shoots consistent, and I could care less how dirty it is when I can just clean the silencer. You bought a .22 to save money on ammo. So save it.
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Old June 23, 2009, 04:50 PM   #9
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The only warning I know of is against the use of the Aguila 60 grain subsonic round.

What have you heard about this round? I was just looking to purchase some for a small handgun and was impressed with the size bullet. I figured, a bigger hole might be a better choice from a small conceal at a short distance and fps will only be a side note. A 2" barrel would not allow for full velocity so I am moving toward more damage.
Any feedback before I place order?
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Old June 23, 2009, 10:33 PM   #10
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A .22lr suppressor (if you can take it apart to clean) will have a life longer than most firearms. If you want one that will last forever get one with stainless baffles or core (like the checkmate). What will end the life of a suppressor prematurely is an unstable bullet, the 60 grain Aguilia (sp) is a good example of a bullet that does not stabilize out of most .22’s. Most “high velocity” will be subsonic in barrels under 9”. I’ve found some lots of Dynapoint .22lr, in some firearms, to be more accurate than many brands of Eley and very close to Federal gold match at a fraction of the cost. Remember just like reloads what works in one gun might not be the best out of others so you have to try them all.
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Old June 26, 2009, 12:57 PM   #11
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Standard velocity CCI will be subsonic in most barrels less than 5 inches long. Don't waste your money on subsonic for pistol.

The 60gr subsonic will not stabilize in a 16 inch twist barrel. You need a 9 inch twist barrel to properly stabilize. A suppressor with large enough bore will allow the wobbling duck 60gr bullet to pass through safely at the expense of sound. It's a trade off.
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Old June 29, 2009, 02:35 PM   #12
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I have not been happy with Remington subsonics. Some go hypersonic, and some take multiple firing pin strikes to fire. Usually 3-4 of each out of a brick of 500. Aguila subsonic 38gr. is much more consistent, AND less expensive.
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Old June 29, 2009, 02:56 PM   #13
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What have you heard about this round?
Aquilla SSS is too heavy to be effectively stabilized by the slow twist rate in most .22 barrels. Accuracy suffers as a result. However, in a handgun that may not make enough difference for you.
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Old July 17, 2009, 08:51 PM   #14
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I guess I fall under the category of "should have researched before buying".

I have a TAC-67 suppressor and use it on my Ruger 10/22, Walther P22 and my Marvel 22LR 1911 conversion. I bought 3000rnds of the Aquilla SSS.

I've been having accuracy issues with it. I have a custom Ruger 10/22 with a Volquartzen barrel and I can't group worth a darn with it.

Same with my Marvel 1911 conversion. I ended up selling this conversion at a loss, thinking it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be!

My suppressor has been getting really caked up with lead, too! I guess that wobbling bullet has been been leaving lead deposits all over my baffles.

Well, this was an expensive lesson... glad I finally have been educated.
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Old June 28, 2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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I have a P22, the subsonic standard velocity CCI ammo frequently failed to eject, failed to cycle the gun, and even failed to fire. I always use the high velocity stingers but somehow screwed up my cabelas purchase of 500 rounds. Aouch!!! What a waste! DON'T BUY SUBSONIC 22RL for pistols.
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Old June 28, 2010, 06:34 AM   #16
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I have a YHM mite that I use on a Browning Buckmark Camper Whisper. I usually still get a sonic crack with standard velocity ammo and I've tried several brands. I rarely get the crack with Rem. Sub-Sonic but it does still happen sometimes. I have not had many problems with failures with that ammo. Some .22 ammo brands and lots are more consistent than others but "failure to fire" or double-strike seems to just come with the territory. I've never had any problems with "failure to eject" or "failure to cycle" with any ammo in that gun.
To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.
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Old June 28, 2010, 07:39 AM   #17
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High velocity .22 tends to vary in velocity, shot to shot a wee bit more, and that is a variable that effects accuracy.
I normally use the Remington subsonics in my rifles (I don't own any .22's in pistol) and they give superb accuracy and always cycle my 10/22. I have never had a dud. I tried some of the Remington Stingers and accuracy went to pot. My 0.5" groups turned into 2" groups @ 30 yards- I was shooting a Marlin 80DL bolt action at the time. I've stop using the Stingers.
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Old June 28, 2010, 08:18 AM   #18
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I am wondering if what you are thinking about is .22 Magnum instead of LR.
.22 lr uses fast burning powder and should get damn near full velocity out of anything over 6" barrel.
.22 mag uses slow burning powder and to get full velocity of about 2200fps needs probably at least a 12" barrel.

I wouldn't have a .22mag with anything less than a 6" barrel.

My AMT auto magII gets around 1650-1690fps from a 6" barrel.
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