Shooting .32 S&W Long Wadcutters out of .32 S&W (short) Revolver

[44 AMP]

Its, ok, we'll understand if your report is slow, due to "one finger typing"...

[Mike Irwin]

"Kind of like the western movie character in the general store:
"Give me a box of .44s."
.44 WHAT? .44 Henry, .44 S&W, .44 Russian, .44 Colt, .44 Winchester?"

That would be a box of 5-in-1 blanks...

[jar]

But I think the choices in 9mm dwarf those of the 44 family. There are even multiple different 9mm Supers and of course 9mm Browning and 9mm Browning Short.

[FoundFather]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Its, ok, we'll understand if your report is slow, due to "one finger typing"...

Ouch, that one stung a little bit

[TruthTellers]

I discovered all this last year, actually two years ago I think with my Young America. Yes, you need chambers that are bored straight thru to do this and I would avoid shooting a .32 wadcutter 98gr in all top break .32 Shorts simply because the latch mechanism was designed for the lower recoil of a lighter bullet and I'm sure would get destroyed quickly from a heavy wadcutter. A solid frame would have no issue, the problem there is very few .32 S&W shorts were made in a solid frame for smokeless powder.

The H&R Y. America is a rare case where the chambers were bored thru and is a solid frame.

I know of no others, however if there was enough interest one could ream the chambers of any other solid frame .32 Short to accept .32 SW Long.

[Jim Watson]

You could. There was a guy on the S&W board who reamed his .44 Russian to take .44 Special loaded short. Simplified his brass inventory and if you look, the Special is right about the same velocity as Russian, therefore likely about the same pressure.

[FoundFather]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I discovered all this last year, actually two years ago I think with my Young America. Yes, you need chambers that are bored straight thru to do this and I would avoid shooting a .32 wadcutter 98gr in all top break .32 Shorts simply because the latch mechanism was designed for the lower recoil of a lighter bullet and I'm sure would get destroyed quickly from a heavy wadcutter. A solid frame would have no issue, the problem there is very few .32 S&W shorts were made in a solid frame for smokeless powder.

The H&R Y. America is a rare case where the chambers were bored thru and is a solid frame.

I know of no others, however if there was enough interest one could ream the chambers of any other solid frame .32 Short to accept .32 SW Long.

Thanks, Truthteller. I think the Victor is one other that wil fit the bill. I have one wiating at my FFL and will let you know once I can confirm. Most sources list the Victor as kind of a budget Harrington and Richardson line, which is kind of a scary thought. The good thing is that they were not produced until around 1915 so all were made for smokeless poweder, unlike the Young America where soem were black powder and some were smokeless. I have a YA waiting at my FFL as well, but unfortunately I beleive it is a black powder version.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by FoundFather

Thanks, Truthteller. I think the Victor is one other that wil fit the bill. I have one wiating at my FFL and will let you know once I can confirm. Most sources list the Victor as kind of a budget Harrington and Richardson line, which is kind of a scary thought. The good thing is that they were not produced until around 1915 so all were made for smokeless poweder, unlike the Young America where soem were black powder and some were smokeless. I have a YA waiting at my FFL as well, but unfortunately I beleive it is a black powder version.

Idk much about the Victor, know of them, but I believe they were all .32 SW Long as they are built on a larger frame. The .32 Y. America is itself built on a larger frame than the .22 Short model Y. America, so why H&R would build a .32 short S&W on an even larger frame is curious if that is indeed the case.

I have a copy of Bill Goforth's book on H&R, so I'll take a peak in it and see what he says about the Victor, but my guess is the cost cutting H&R made was reduction in machined surfaces like flutes on the cylinder or use of a round barrel over octagonal, not cheaper, softer metal and QC cutting.

If you are reloading these wadcutters, my suggestion is to use Unique for the powder charge, for some reason Bullseye is unpleasently heavy in recoil when I shoot it in the Young America.

Another thing to keep an eye on during shooting is the cylinder base pin walking out and jumping over the spring loaded retaining latch. I'm sure there are better ways to retain the pin, perhaps a stronger spring could be made, but stock springs are too weak and as such I have avoided the solid frame H&R's since I got the Young America.

[FoundFather]

Again, thanks for the info Truthteller. Their were appretnly two models of the Victor, a six shot large frame which is chambered in .32 S&W Long and a five shot medium frame chambered in .32 S&W. The five shot is supossed to be the same size as the Young America .32 S&W. Like I say, I have one of each waiting for me at the FFL so I will soon be able to confirm or deny that.

In the meantime, here is a photo from the seller of the Victor I bought with a tape measure:

Victor .32 S&W.jpg

Pretty small, huh?

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by FoundFather

Again, thanks for the info Truthteller. Their were appretnly two models of the Victor, a six shot large frame which is chambered in .32 S&W Long and a five shot medium frame chambered in .32 S&W. The five shot is supossed to be the same size as the Young America .32 S&W. Like I say, I have one of each waiting for me at the FFL so I will soon be able to confirm or deny that.

In the meantime, here is a photo from the seller of the Victor I bought with a tape measure:

Attachment 115432

Pretty small, huh?

I looked at Bill Goforth's book and as to the Victor being a "budget" revolver my guess on cost reductions was correct, Goforth states that the cylinders not being fluted and the barrels being round helped lower the costs, but the frame and lockwork is all the same as the Young America and American DA.

There were apparently three frame sizes for the Victor, the small and medium frames of the Young America and the large frame of the American DA.

So, since these are basically the same revolvers as the Y. America and American DA that means yours will be just like my Y. America in it will chamber .32 S&W Long cases.

When you get to shooting it, I would suggest shooting in single action because when doing a DA pull the cylinder pins tends to walk out more and also I would check after every shot to make sure the cylinder pin is still being retained by the spring loaded latch. If it comes loose, your alignment will get thrown off and lock up the cylinder during indexing.

And I would definitely encourage you to get the .22 version. Apparently, according to Mr. Goforth, the Victor is able to shoot .22 LR, something that the Young America is not able to do.

Guess I'm gonna have to look into that further to confirm.

[stinkeypete]

Worst case, you have to trim your brass back shorter.

[FoundFather]

Thanks, again, TruthTeller.


I rescued my .32's form the FLL. Here is a pitcture:



IMG_0236 .32's small file.jpg

The Victor is blued and the Young America is nickel. They appear to be identical in size and very similar overall, but for the unfluted cylinder and round barrel on the Victor vs. fluted cylinder and octagon barrel on Young America. They are both five shot .32 S&W's although the Young America is apparently made for black powder ad the Victor smokeless.

I guess I am finally going to have start reloading, at least for this caliber. I have a lot to learn about that.

Can anyone tell me the best currently-in-production die set for .32 S&W? What, if anything, do I need to make a .32 S&W Long die set work for .32 S&W? An extended shell holder?

It looks like a lot of dies currently on the market can do .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Mag, and .327 Federal Mag, but it is not clear if you can do .32 S&W on these sets. Is it possible with some addition?

If I could find a Lee Classic Loader in .32 S&W, that would be my preferred route, but they don't seem to have made those for many years. If anyone could point me to one, that would be appreciated.

[Mike Irwin]

Generally no, you need a set of .32 S&W-specific dies.

The case lengths are too different.

You can resize the cases, but I don't believe that you can bell them, seat a bullet, or crimp the case.

An extended shell holder wouldn't work for one reason... the .32 S&W is a rimmed cartridge.

[44 AMP]

You can resize the cases, but I don't believe that you can bell them, seat a bullet, or crimp the case.

Generally speaking, when the cases are straight, and the same other than length, with standard 3 die sets, dies for the shorter round can be adjusted or spaced (washers) in the press to work loading the longer round.

The reverse, however, is not a given. The sizer from the long round die set will probably do fine. The expander, and the seater might not. If the expander stem and the seating stem will adjust low enough they will work for the shorter round. Not all will. The long round seater die, with its built in crimp shoulder will NOT work for the shorter case, at all.

The difference in the cases of the .32s is about 0.315" THis is more than double (closer to 3x) the difference between .38SPl/.357 or .44Spl/.44 mag, and I don't know if the .32Long dies have enough adjustment in their stems to work reloading the short case. If they do, they will work, if they don't, then they won't. Sort cases are simply too short to reach the crimp shoulder of the seater die, so you cannot crimp shorts with a long seater die, you will have to use a different die for that.

An extended shell holder wouldn't work for one reason... the .32 S&W is a rimmed cartridge.

This has me confused, and doesn't make sense, unless the extended shell holder you are referring to is drastically different from the RCBS ones I have, where rimmed or rimless makes no difference at all, and the extension is the bottom of the shellholder. My extended shell holder does not allow the case to go any further into a die that a regular one. It can't.

[tangolima]

The Lee die set is for both long and short. It is even more so for carbide dies, in which a short carbide ring is the business end of the deal. Basically all sized brass come out are straight wall except near the head. Not exactly exact but within specs I suppose.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Mike Irwin]

The dies that are SPECIFIC to the .32 S&W may be usable to reload .32 Long, but the .32 Long dies won't reload .32 S&W.

Lee shows 3 separate product IDs for .32 S&W, .32 Long, and .32 H&R dies.

[Mike38]

The Lee die set is for both long and short.

My Lee dies say .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police. No mention of the .32 S&W (short).

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

The dies that are SPECIFIC to the .32 S&W may be usable to reload .32 Long, but the .32 Long dies won't reload .32 S&W.



Lee shows 3 separate product IDs for .32 S&W, .32 Long, and .32 H&R dies.

You are right. I thought it was the same set. I have the one for .32 s&w long. Have been using it for .32 s&w and .32 French longue, but never .32 s&w long. No problem so far. It is carbide die.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

My Lee dies say .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police.

The .32 S&W Long and the .32 Colt New Police are the same case. The S&W was loaded with a RN bullet and the Colt New Police was loaded with a flat point bullet.

Back in the day, Colt would not put S&W's name on their guns, and created their own version of S&W rounds, and named then "Colt" Usually the only difference between them was the style of the bullet and the name.

Have been using it for .32 s&w and .32 French longue, but never .32 s&w long. No problem so far. It is carbide die.

Regular carbide sizer dies are a "ring" (short cylinder) of carbide material cemented into the bottom of the steel sizer die body. They don't care how long the case is. Short cases are sized fine, and long cases are also, just having more of the brass stick up past the sizer ring in the die.

The issue shows up when using the built in crimping shoulder of the seater die. IF the die is made for the longer case, the short one simply won't reach the crimp shoulder before the shell holder contacts the die body.

If the die is made for the shorter case, it can be used to crimp the longer case by adjusting the die body (out) in the press to compensate for the longer case. When done right, there will be a gap between the die bottom and the shellholder with the ram at full extension, approximately equal to the difference in the length of the cases. If you crimp long brass in a short die without backing the die body out enough, you will crush and destroy the long case.

[FoundFather]

Geez, this stuff is complicated! Tanglima, do you have a part number for your die set? Do you have to use any extra parts with the .32 S&W Long die to make it work for the .32 S&W? Like washers or extended shell holder?

[tangolima]

I have 90624 for .32s&w long and .32 colt new police.

No mod is needed for sizing.

No mod is needed for seating. At least for the bullets I am loading with.

I do need to drop in 2 hex nuts in the expander die to reach the shorty brass. No big deal really.

Now I remember debating which die sets to buy. I reckon getting the long die will give me more use and flexibility. I also bought the .32 acp FCD to help take out the brass mouth flare. There was some issue with .32 French longue.

It could be a bit of hassle to make it work perfectly for different calibers. Get different die sets if you don't want to deal with that. So far I use the same die set for 2 different cartridges. Very probably I will make it work for .32 acp. I'm cheap and you don't have to be.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by FoundFather

Thanks, again, TruthTeller.


I rescued my .32's form the FLL. Here is a pitcture:



Attachment 115443

The Victor is blued and the Young America is nickel. They appear to be identical in size and very similar overall, but for the unfluted cylinder and round barrel on the Victor vs. fluted cylinder and octagon barrel on Young America. They are both five shot .32 S&W's although the Young America is apparently made for black powder ad the Victor smokeless.

I guess I am finally going to have start reloading, at least for this caliber. I have a lot to learn about that.

Can anyone tell me the best currently-in-production die set for .32 S&W? What, if anything, do I need to make a .32 S&W Long die set work for .32 S&W? An extended shell holder?

It looks like a lot of dies currently on the market can do .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Mag, and .327 Federal Mag, but it is not clear if you can do .32 S&W on these sets. Is it possible with some addition?

If I could find a Lee Classic Loader in .32 S&W, that would be my preferred route, but they don't seem to have made those for many years. If anyone could point me to one, that would be appreciated.

They're in pretty decent condition too, congrats. Blued H&R's are the bomb, underrated bluing IMO for a revolver at the prices they sold for.

On reloading, I use Lee dies because they work and are cheap. For these revolvers you need not buy any die sets more expensive.

The Lee .32 ACP set is also for .32 S&W, but it will probably come with the .32 ACP shelholder not a .32 S&W, so if you get that one you should also get the necessary shellholder.

.32 S&W Long dies will work for .32 Mag and .327 Mag. The sizing die is the same for all the .32's that Lee makes, it's the expander, seater, and crimp dies that will be different.

I would get the .32 SW Lg 4 die set, that comes with the Lee factory crimp die and you will want that for wadcutters. You can get later a .32 ACP/S&W seater die as that also crimps and due to the short length you need the seater to be able to crimp the bullets if you ever bother to load .32 S&W to shoot in these revolvers.

I think using starting loads for .32 wadcutter is the best choice because these revolvers have large gaps and no throats, so the accuracy with the .32 wadcutters in .32 Long will be far better than .32 S&W.

I do not like Lee expansion dies for .32, they dont make the bullets seat squarely. I use the Lyman M die, it has worked very well for me and the nice thing is the .32 M die that Lyman makes will work for all .32's from ACP and S&W up to .327 Mag.

[FoundFather]

Thanks for reloading info guys. I think I have it in my future. I may hold off for while though.

I ahve some clack powder blanks in .32 S&W on the way. I plan to try them in both the Young America and Victor as a first test. Assuming that goes OK, I will probably not fire the Young America any more until I get reloading set up. With the Victor, if hte blanks don't blow naything up, I also have some .32 S&W lead round nose on the way. I will try them next. If that goes OK, I plan to try the .32 S&W Long wadcutters out of the Victor.

[Bill DeShivs]

All the blanks will tell you, is if the gun will fire.
There is no danger of the gun blowing up, as there is no pressure build up from having a projectile.

[FoundFather]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

All the blanks will tell you, is if the gun will fire.
There is no danger of the gun blowing up, as there is no pressure build up from having a projectile.

"no danger of gun blowing up" - sounds like the right place to start, no?

"tell you if the gun will fire" - also useful information!

Plus I will get some cases out of it that I can reload, once I have accumulated all the gear for that..