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Old August 31, 2018, 09:00 PM   #1
Jeryray
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22 match ammo

I was using Federal gold match HV loads in my .22 pistols.
I get some won't eject and some don't go off.

Recommendations for match ammo that may have a better track record please.

Using a model 41 a UV Comp for competition.

TIA
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Old September 1, 2018, 06:01 AM   #2
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Jeryray,
I shot rimfire competition for twenty years and owned many, many target guns while I was doing it. In one ten year period I was going through seven cases of ammo a year and I learned a lot during that time. Based on what you're describing I think you have fallen into a situation where two things are happening: first, you're using an ammo that leaves a lot of lube in the chamber and residue on the slide and chamber. Second, and don't get mad here, you're not cleaning the gun enough. I found that some ammo simply left too much residue on the slide and in the chamber on almost every gun I owned. I used to carry a bent brush with me to give a "quick" scrub to the chamber area every once in a while. I also used to take the gun apart about every two-three hundred rounds and give everything a good cleaning. I ended up using ammo that had an "oily" lube rather than a waxy one. Eley and RWS became my choices for reliability. My next choice was CCI Std. Velocity which wasn't quite as good. I suggest you try a variety of ammo and see what works best in your CLEAN gun. I'm not implying you don't clean your guns, I'm just stating that rimfires are prone to stopping when fouled and the better target ones with tighter tolerances are ten times as bad. I had comped guns and they need the comp cleaned frequently also or they will foul up and are a bear to clean. Good luck.
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Old September 1, 2018, 06:30 AM   #3
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I love Eley match and team. Eley Tenex is great but it’s expensive.


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Old September 1, 2018, 06:42 AM   #4
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Eley is what many of the national and Olympic shooters use.
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Old September 1, 2018, 07:12 AM   #5
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No way to argue any suggestion for Eley but over in the S&W forum it is standard operating procedure that when anyone reports issues with a Model 41, CCI-SV is quickly and almost always recommended.
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Old September 1, 2018, 08:03 AM   #6
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I have found nothing"Match" about federal HV. Even their standard velocity is a poor representative of match ammo.

Shooting competition, SV Would always be my choice. I think your gun was built for standard velocity.

Enjoy
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Old September 1, 2018, 11:41 AM   #7
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Model 41, as in S&W 41? Might be best to stay away from high velocity ammo. Try CCI standard velocity or pistol match. Eley standard velocity if money is no concern. RWS makes very good standard velocity ammo.
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Old September 1, 2018, 12:40 PM   #8
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"...Using a Model 41..." Smith 41's are the most particular .22 target pistol there are. Mine will shoot and cycle with nothing but Remington Target and the old IVI Standard Velocity(no longer available. Don't think it ever was, Stateside.). It won't cycle with any flavour of Eley brand.
Anyway, you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your individual pistol will both shoot well and cycle the action using. The price of said ammo means nothing.
And yes you do end up with a bunch of part boxes. .22 rifles are less particular. Doesn't mean all .22 ammo will be accurate out of 'em though. You need to try ammo in them too.
"...stay away from high velocity ammo..." Absolutely and totally untrue. Lots of people Stateside use .41's for hunting. HV ammo won't bother 'em at all. Hypervelocity stuff like Yellow Jackets(discontinued, sniff) and CCI Mini-mags, etc., won't bother 'em either.
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Old September 1, 2018, 10:13 PM   #9
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I go with No Second Best. My Model 41 started doing the same thing and a good cleaning solved it.

Mine also cycled everything I ever ran through it.

They can be funny beasts, my brother had nothing but trouble with his and sold it (much to my annoyance, I would have bought it, sent ti to S&W and got a killer gun back, he had some of the attachments and two barrels, grrrr.)

They were pretty much hand built at least the older ones.

Usually they were very good, a few were really bad.

I have to get a red dot barrel for mine so I can shoot it again (iron sights are not my friend these days)
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Old September 2, 2018, 08:21 AM   #10
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For hunting, HV is great, but for target I don't think anything will group as well as standard velocity.

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Old September 2, 2018, 10:06 AM   #11
NoSecondBest
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I totally agree with David R. Nothing wrong with HV for hunting, it shoots well enough for that purpose. It just doesn't make those tiny little groups we all like to look at.
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Old September 2, 2018, 10:28 AM   #12
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Some years ago I shot bullseye some. The real challenge was ammo that would fire every time. Most anything was accurate enough, even Remington milk carton but the solution was ammo that worked, every time you pulled the trigger. I was not good enough to take advantage of "match" ammo. I shot a MK2 Ruger and a couple High Standards. Right now I would try something from CCI if you are on a budget. I did have a batch of Federal Autocomp that worked well. ALSO, keep the gun clean, wipe any crap off the bolt face and rear face of the bbl.
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Old November 7, 2018, 10:24 AM   #13
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This 1993 Model 41 was sent back to Smith & Wesson 3 times before they got it to run properly:



I had to fiddle with various recoil springs and their "alleged" weight, until I felt it was running the way I wanted with SK Match Pistol .22 rounds.
The CCI Standard is very close, and what I used for practice until it was time for serious shooting. The CCI Standard is a bit more pocket book friendly than the higher buck stuff:

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Old November 8, 2018, 03:45 PM   #14
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A complete teardown and cleaning of every individual part may well be in order. The fouling problem NSB referred to is getting enough wax in the chamber so the rounds are cushioned and slowed by it as they chamber. This results in all the excess headspace being forward of the rim. When you try to fire it, some of the energy from the firing pin blow is absorbed by seating the round the rest of the way into the chamber through that high viscosity lube, and that can be enough to cause a failure to fire.

Solvent-soak and dry and treat the springs and firing pin and anything they touch for 72 hours in Sprinco's Plate+ Silver and wipe off all the excess. This makes them slip against each other better to maximize firing pin energy.
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Old November 8, 2018, 04:18 PM   #15
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Whatever we suggest matters nothing until you actually test the variety of ammo selections in your gun.

But a few follow up questions. How many boxes of the Federal gold ammo have you run through your 41?
The rounds that don't fire, do you try to recock and fire that round again? Maybe in a different gun?
How many different types of ammo have you used in that gun thus far?
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Old November 9, 2018, 03:57 PM   #16
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Perhaps after production was moved to Maine, the newer 41's weren't quite the same as the older ones that were made in Springfield, MA.

About 20 years ago I met a bullseye shooter who shot 2 perfect matches of 300 points firing CCI Standard Velocity with his Model 41.
And he regularly had the highest average on his team.

I also knew a team mate who always used Remington Target in his 41.
He also practiced a lot and IIRC his gun didn't ever malfunction other than routine Remington misfires, which often depended on the lot of Remington Target in those days.
But in more recent years, I've shot many, many rounds of Remington Target without any misfires at all, and it certainly became known as a much more reliable ammo.

I agree that any ammo. needs to be thoroughly function tested for dependablity with any individual gun.

Last edited by arcticap; November 9, 2018 at 04:04 PM.
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Old November 9, 2018, 06:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
About 20 years ago I met a bullseye shooter who shot 2 perfect matches of 300 points firing CCI Standard Velocity with his Model 41.
And he regularly had the highest average on his team.
I know a High Master Bullseye shooter that uses CCI standard velocity exclusively. Even at Camp Perry. If someone can make High Master with it, it's certainly good enough for me.
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Old November 10, 2018, 02:03 PM   #18
arcticap
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I don't know if they're still making the CCI Pistol Match.
I picked up a bunch from someone during the ammo shortage.
Some guys would compete with it but not very many would actually stick with it.

I sometimes would shoot CCI Green Tag from my imported target pistol but only for slow fire since it would misfire a lot.
The rounds would fire eventually but just not always on the 1st trigger pull.
I wasn't sure what the deal was with them.
At least all I usually had to do was to recock the external hammer of the pistol.
It was the only ammo that ever did that with the gun.
But it was accurate so I kept using it.

I basically just keep these ammos on hand for rifle shooting, or if a pistol really benefits from it.

Besides Eley, another ammo that I liked to play around with was Fiocchi Match and Super Match that was made in Italy.
I once read an article that said it tested to be the most accurate .22LR when fired from the 3 most popular semi-auto target rifles.
While it was really reliable ammo., its accuracy also varied lot to lot.
But it's really beautiful looking ammo with very bright silver colored bullets.

It's fun to have an ammo stash in the closet to try out in those guns that can be really finicky.
But sometimes functional reliably and being accurate are 2 whole different animals.
CCI Standard Velocity is also the common go-to ammo for many of the original High Standard target pistol shooters.
Many guys would try more expensive ammo, but in the end they would always go back to the CCI SV.
Even if they needed to wipe the lube off their bullets before the match so they wouldn't stick in the magazine or chamber.
What's a point or two to an average Bullseye shooter anyway?
Most shooters can't really tell the difference in the end unless they're shooting a Hammerli or some other really high end pistol.
It's mostly a mental game to be able to believe that you're shooting with the most accurate ammo possible
to help provide confidence in your own performance before the match even starts.

Last edited by arcticap; November 13, 2018 at 11:32 AM.
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Old September 5, 2020, 01:25 AM   #19
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I tend to agree with SGW Gunsmith

I must be one of the last, few people who still uses a Unique D3 for ISSF Rapid-fire competition, and I run SK Pistol Match ammunition through that pistol, exclusively.

SK Pistol Match shoots comparably clean, and I haven't experienced any FTF's or FTE's, so far.

I definitely agree that any pistol that fires .22 LR should be kept scrupulously clean, however --- smallbore match guns are particularly prone to fouling, and need to be brushed down every 150 rounds or so to deliver top performance.

To cite another example, I have a Smith & Wesson Model 17 whose chambers are so tight that I cannot insert rounds into the cylinder after the revolver has fired 200 rounds (!)

Hope that this helps!
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Old September 5, 2020, 06:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Anyway, you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your individual pistol will both shoot well and cycle the action using. The price of said ammo means nothing.
And yes you do end up with a bunch of part boxes. .22 rifles are less particular. Doesn't mean all .22 ammo will be accurate out of 'em though. You need to try ammo in them too.
Sage advice. I have always done this with any new to me .22 pistol. At least 10 different types/brands of .22 ammo. A remarkable discovery was, using a HS Victor, that Federal SV - despite many criticisms - shot as well as any of the higher end brands. I shot cases of it and never had a problem with it for years. Then Federal did something and it stopped working as well. I switched to CCI SV and Eley Target.
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Old September 7, 2020, 10:42 PM   #21
langenc
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When Im shooting 22 LR BR match, I and most shooters stay away from HV ammo.

Maybe pistol s different.
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Old September 8, 2020, 04:57 PM   #22
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Federal has replaced TWO lots of irregular ammo for me in the past. Multiple FTF per 100.

Granted, a while back but I still won't use Federal.



edited to add that it was irregular primer distribution. I could turn the rounds and they would fire.

Last edited by Lavan; September 8, 2020 at 05:02 PM.
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Old September 9, 2020, 09:07 AM   #23
Bart B.
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22 rimfire match ammo made after 1980 has less accuracy. All the 50- and 100-yard 40-shot prone open records set before then still stand
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Old September 9, 2020, 01:31 PM   #24
T. O'Heir
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OP is 2 years old.
"...some won't eject and some don't go off...." That's why you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol both shoots well and cycles the action. .22's are just like that.
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Old September 9, 2020, 07:18 PM   #25
langenc
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From Secondbest
""I shot rimfire competition for twenty years and owned many, many target guns while I was doing it. In one ten year period I was going through seven cases of ammo a year and I learned a lot during that time.""

A great deal of shooting--100 rounds/day-every day.Would make one a better shot and a lower bank acct-then and now. Ammo has probably tripled since then.
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